Agatha All Along! Mysticism in MCU

[Fero McPigletron]

Saw the first two eps and I liked them a lot! Kathryn Hahn is pretty fun to watch, incident in ep1 notwithstanding.

Ep1 had callbacks to WandaVision, which were great if you enjoyed watching it. The intro was amazing, haha. While the ep is basically filling space, it goes a long way in establishing the atmosphere and tone. The mystery she was solving was a little heartbreaking for me.

Ep2 has... references I don't know. I know the name of Kale from comics but the other two witches, I can't tell if are new or not. I love that it got creepy but also actually funny, especially with the Nameless.

I have a theory on the fourth name...

Spoiler

it was a heart written in black ink. The old lady gardener was name dropped as Hart but I think it's a false lead. If she is fake, I don't know how they opened the Witch's Road.

I got a hint of a past relationship between Agatha and Aubrey Plaza so Aubrey could be the heart, just estranged. It explains why Agatha didn't want to bring her into it, since they're ex's. Aubrey doesn't look like a Green Witch tho.

But the literal answer is a Blackheart. He might be involved. Genderswitched or whatever. Mephisto might be involved if his son is around.

Oh, the revelation that it's Wanda's body being crushed to death is sad if it's real, she really did die in the Multiverse of Madness movie. The explosion of scarlet energy when the rock fell wasn't a Portal but her getting snuffed out. Very sad

Btw, what's Agatha's specialty? Divination, Potions... I forgot the thief, and Green. What's missing?

 

[Dvandom]

The fortuneteller's name comes from a one-off antagonist from 1973 who summoned the Serpent Crown and ended up dead by the end of the story. Jennifer Kale they similarly took the name and not much else. Aubrey Plaza's character and the child of the rockstar seem to be entirely new (or at least the Marvel Wiki has nothing on them outside of this show).

Nicholas Scratch got namechecked in the first episode as Agnes's presumably dead child, but given Agatha's messed up state of mind there's no real way to tell if they meant Agatha's son (and leader of Salem's Seven) from the comics, or the folkloric nickname for the devil from whom Marvel took the name.

As to spoilery speculation, I figure there's a small chance "Mrs. Hart" really is a witch who is playing a VERY deep game, but the identity-obfuscated "Teen" might have been the actual fifth. They didn't notice the doorway to the Witch's Road until he entered the basement, and it might not even have appeared until he got close enough. Him being a reincarnation of Scratch is also a possibility.

---Dave

 

[Destron D-69]

i can't believe we've got a show about Reed and Sue Richards kids' babysitter. The MCU fell off a cliff after endgame

 

[Monique]

I was actually pleasantly surprised. I had kind of dismissed the show from the first trailer but I've rewatched the two episodes twice now at this point and the song is great.

Spoiler

I'm probably wrong but I think the Mrs. Hart/Black Heart thing is a Potter/Longbottom situation. Either was a valid choice thus the vagueness in the divination. Ultimately Agatha chose "Hart" over "Heart" In the end the road opened without Rio and "Hart" does have indications of having some connection to the earth. It's also one of the only ways Agatha would have identified her as she didn't know the name Sharon Davis until after talking to her. It could even be that ulimately Hart is the better choice somehow

 

[Fero McPigletron]

Oh yeah, the Witches Road song was amazing! I was just listening to it again, hehe.

Huh, I actually didn't think of the possibiloty both Dvandom and Monique's theories. The timing of the sudden appearance of the gate IS suspect. And there could have been secret chanting? Maybe? But I love the idea of Agatha twisting the fourth name to suit her choice.

I only know of the Salem Seven from... a Wizard freebie Deadpool 1/2 issue where Armij Zola resurrects a bunch of dead Marvel characters so Deadpool can kill them off in funny ways.

 

[Monique]

A couple more things of note upon rewatch and reflection

Spoiler

While the witches are fighting due to the door not showing up "Hart" is the one to suddenly spot the door and put an end to the argument (Teen is still upstairs dealing with the 7 trying to get in, he doesn't come downstairs until the coven has opened the door fully up.

Also in the very first episode of Wandavision they have a dinner date with Mr and Mrs Hart on August 23. To denote this they put a heart on the calendar which, due to the episode being in black and white, is a 'black heart'

 

[Fero McPigletron]

WtWanda, how did you even notice that? Haha

 

[Monique]

Well...

Spoiler

I did say I was probably wrong in my theory

 

[Dvandom]

Okay, looks like Alice Gulliver is based on a relatively recent (2016) character, "The Wu." And Witches' Road was something from relatively recent comics as well (the explanation for how comics Agatha got returned to life and de-aged).

---Dave

 

[Fero McPigletron]

Pleeeeeease say Sharon Hart whatever is a comic character too.

Saw the third ep.

Luuuuuvd it!

I regularly undergo that type of 'trial' on my birthday (for birthday discount) so I loved seeing this. It was also freaky as hex. Tense AF. Was it the music? Gosh dang. Either way, edge of my seat.

Reminded me of the trials from the American Horror Story Witchcraft season.

I think we know how the rest of the three eps will go but I hope this ep doesn't always follow the pattern.

Also the Divination Witch saying stuff needs to have more obvious cues when she's seeing the future. She cuz says it so casually at times.

 

[Ultra Magnus13]

Really liking this so far.

Seems to be avoiding a common streaming problem from shows like this, which is either spending too much time or dragging on dull or poorly executed things, or rushing through what should be impactfull, interesting or exciting. Sometimes both. This is nailing the pacing so far, both episode to episode and as a series.

Spoiler

It's also got me on my toes, I'm really not sure what to expect. Is she really dead? Is the next episode going to open with her sitting up taking a big gasp and quiping about that stuff tasting like it could wake the dead? Is she a disguise or an illusion?

"Teen" is also curious. Seemed pretty obvious that he was Wiccan, but then this episode has overly obvious foreshadowing that he is Agatha's kid. Seems like a fake out, but what if it's both? Agatha trades Nicholas for the Darkhold to Mephisto. Then Mephisto uses him as a fake child for Wanda to try to control her.

 

[Fero McPigletron]

I actually didn't know that Agatha had a

Spoiler

kid in the comics. If they do combine Billy Wiccan with Nicolas Scratch, well, it won't be until Billy gets older before he turns evil. Which would be an awesome twist. Btw, if Billy is around, where is Speed going to pop up?

 

[Fero McPigletron]

Watched ep3. Not as good as the previous eps but still ok. The wardrobe is jaw dropping and can't believe Disney Marvel would do that kind of exposure again.

 

[Monique]

So I had an idea on maybe what happend with Agathas kid. I'm probably wrong but throwing it out into the void in case I'm right.

I'm thinking maybe Nick got sick with something that couldn't be cured even with witchcraft. Perhaps Agatha sought out the Darkhold thinking it would have the answers she needed and learned how to siphon other witches power with it. What if however while she was off doing this, Nick died. Not from the sickness but from something she could have prevented had she been there to stop it. This might be why people think she sacrificed him for the Darkhold and why she saw the book in the crib, because she feels like she picked the book over him.

Granted. I am a little bit confused on just how old Nick was when he was supposedly sacrificed by Agatha. The vision she saw while poisoned was of a baby crib but the room she saw in her house would have had him be far to old to be in a crib. Granted that house was hugely warped by Wandas spell so its possible she just saw what she wished was true rather than what was.

 

[Dvandom]

Remember, Agatha is centuries old, even in MCU reckoning, he wouldn't have had his own room regardless of age. Nick's room in the first episode was mixing her past with the tropes of the bitter police detective, which might call for memories of playing catch, etc. I'd need to rewatch Agatha's backstory in WandaVision, but IIRC she had the Darkhold back when she turned on her coven centuries ago, so Nicholas was already gone by then. (Also, back then, mothers lost children a LOT, infant mortality was horrifyingly high by modern standards, so no one would've thought much of a baby son being there one day and gone the next...but a teenager would've been harder to explain away.)

In the comics, Nicholas Scratch leads the Salem Seven. The version of the Seven seen in episode 1 was nothing like the comics, but that doesn't mean he's not their secret master. That would set him up as the big fight after the end of the Road if Rio ends up settling her differences with Agatha while still on the Road (as it looked like she wants to in ep 4).

---Dave

 

[Fero McPigletron]

Might not be anything but I thought in the potions ep that Teen saying his dad liked high temperatures is a hint that his dad is Mephisto, hehe

 

[Dvandom]

I think at this point, "it's never Mephisto" is the running gag. Rio is also being teased as potentially Mephisto's child (Blackheart) based on one line of dialogue, to the point that the Marvel Wiki has her linked under Blackheart's name.

---Dave

 

[Destron D-69]

teen is wicken, Wanda's son

 

[Monique]

I think at this point, "it's never Mephisto" is the running gag. Rio is also being teased as potentially Mephisto's child (Blackheart) based on one line of dialogue, to the point that the Marvel Wiki has her linked under Blackheart's name.

---Dave

The very last MCU movie or whatever there will be a post credits scene where Mephisto finally shows up and goes "dang! I missed the party"

 

[Destron D-69]

he'll be in the next spider-man ... so we can get Aunt may back