His Magic is too Powerful: The Sprout Cloverleaf Thread

[CoffeeHorse]

Does he look sad to anyone else?


Okay, so he was the lamest villain ever, and he even had a lame villain song, and if I come close to shedding any sympathy for him I am going to have to pretend I didn't see him wreck Sunny's house because that is unforgivable.

But

Sprout is actually pretty interesting. He is a walking pile of complexes. He has a clearly unhealthy relationship with his mother. She didn't let him have that cupcake, and a villain was born. She also doesn't like him wandering around without permission, which is unusual by MLP parenting standards. In no gen have we ever seen them keep a strict watch over their foals, but I can tell she's different.

We learn right away that young Sprout wants to be sheriff someday, and he might have put some effort into pursuing that goal because he made it into Maretime Bay PD. Or, given the level of effort he puts into anything, I'm guessing his mother pulled some strings to get him that job. I think that's what's going on with him. He feels humiliated that he didn't become sheriff. And the way he got the job comes with an added humiliation hanging over his head.

And so he's just the deputy, doing all the stupid jobs like rescuing cats, still never in charge of anything meaningful, always playing second fiddle to stupid sexy Hitch.

And then he gets to be sheriff, and he changes. I don't think he goes Emperor too fast. Yes he's incredibly lazy, but he's lazy because he's never been in charge, maybe even on a personal level. He doesn't just get drunk on power here. He gets drunk on sudden motivation.

Everyone says this movie doesn't have any twists, but it kinda does. Or, not having a twist is the twist. What if Sprout's mother was a twist villain? What if she was the brains behind the whole thing? She's the one who made Sprout realize he's acting sheriff. She stood to benefit from that. Think how much Canterlogic stood to benefit from that. It's not hard to imagine that being the plot of the movie.

But no, that didn't happen. She was not trying to do that at all. She lost control of a monster she didn't plan on using in the first place. She just thought he'd be the cutest sheriff for a day and everything would go on as normal. She was as surprised as anyone else that Sprout was suddenly showing some motivation. She didn't know he had it in him.

 

[ZakuConvoy]

I can't bring myself to fully hate a pony whose first instinct when things get rough is "We need a mech".

I feel like Sprout's heel-turn is actually kind of understandable. His mother runs a company built on fear-mongering and he drank ALL the kool-aid. He didn't lie about anything, I think he really believed everything he said. And you make a good point about him finally finding motivation. The biggest problem with him is...he is oh SO very lame. The writers wanted a easy "level one" boss, so they made him a pathetic, lazy, whiny, momma's boy...and now we're going to either never see him again or we're going to have to redeem him. Probably redeem him, since this is still Pony and he is one of Sunny's oldest friends. Plus...would the magic have come back without him? The three races needed SOME challenge to bring them all together, and he was the tiny hill they all climbed together.

So...what do we DO with him? I think whatever you do with him...he's going to have to be treated like a joke. There's basically no way to redeem him without humiliating him a little. Plus...he still kind of deserves it. And I really don't want him to become a more competent villain.

He could be the new henchman for whoever the new villain will be, eventually betraying the villain when they go too far even for Sprout. But...I don't think we're going to get a overarching villain in the new show's first season. Plus...Sprout really doesn't seem all that villainous, to me.

He could get thrown in pony-jail. That could be good for a few laughs, basically getting stuck in the town's ONLY jail cell in the police station with Hitch the whole time. Plus, jail can change a pony...which could be a good gag, too, if he ends up getting REALLY buff or something in his tiny jail cell.

He could be forced to do public service around town, and write about the lessons he learns along the way. Kind of like Twilight Sparkle, but with a ankle bracelet.

But, I think the idea I like best for him is sending him back to Pony Police Academy. Make him retake all his classes to re-earn his police badge. Maybe give him a sarcastic partner that doesn't put up with any of his nonsense. Maybe just do some wacky Police Academy movie homages. It could be fun.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

I expect this to be the end of his villain career. He believed what the whole world believed, but the whole world just changed. Everypony just got magic back. That's got to be cool. There is no reason for him to not get with the new program except pride... but we know he doesn't have any.

That leaves redemption, but that's a long road. He better personally put in some work rebuilding Sunny's house, and he better be prepared to move mountains to replace any stuff that can't be fixed.

The terms of his sentence also ought to include regular checkups with the best psychologist money can buy, because he has some serious issues to work out.

 

[Caldwin]

Let him make good on some of the destruction he caused, then I'll give him a break. I really just don't like it when all is forgiven too easil.

I did not like Sunset Shimmer at the end of the first EG movie because it was just some sobbing, a pathetic "I didn't know" and all was forgive. It was too easy for someone who enslaved an entire school and outright tried to murder Twilight. But as her story continued and she started to DO things to proved she changed, I absolutely loved her, probably more than Twilight.

Same here. He totally destroyed Sunny's home...easily could have killed anyone who was inside...not even mentioning becoming a third reich dictator.

Redemption is possible. But he's going to have to do some work.

To be clear, I'm not saying you have to earn redemption. Many times that just isn't possible. What I am saying is that you should (in any decent story telling) at least give reason to believe that you changed and are truly sorry beyond a simple "I'm sorry [under breath] that I lost."

 

[CoffeeHorse]

There's two factors here. 1: What's the damage? 2: What's the motivation? Sunset Shimmer's story was initially completely unsatisfying because she was actively villainous and her motivation was... what was it again? EG really didn't get in her head very well, and definitely didn't show us what positive qualities she had to work with going forward.

Some things need to be said for Sprout. He is a lazy, useless, cowardly jerk. He is the most useless deputy of all time. But we can't say he planned this out the way Sunset Shimmer spent a lot of time planning whatever she was trying to accomplish in EG. Sprout does not scheme to take over the department, let alone anything beyond it. When he becomes acting sheriff, the power does not even occur to him until his mother points it out, and he still needs to be reminded a couple of times. He has no concept of being in charge until he is.

If the showrunners decide to go the route of redeeming him, it's believable that he could let go of his prior villainous ambitions because he never actually had any in the first place. Just get him away from his mother and get him some hardcore therapy.

 

[Shadewing]

Ha, someone made the scene I wanted:

 

[CoffeeHorse]

I love how he's being treated in fan art so far. He's too pathetic to stay mad at. He's not just sad that he lost. He's just sad.

 

[Caldwin]

And the cat's in the cradle

 

[Echowarrior]

Sprout's definitely the product of his environment, that's for sure.

I could see him as a recurring character, maybe have him try (and fail) at making up for what happened when power went to his head, but regressing back to full-out villainy seems unlikely.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

He was just terrified that a unicorn would read his mind and find out what a sad bundle of neuroses he is.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

I came in here to post exactly that and see that I already did.

On that point, I take that as a sign that on some level he does realize how messed up his own head is.

 

[Caldwin]

I still maintain that redemption is totally within his grasp. But he's going to have to do something more than "I'm sorry (that I lost)" before I give him that break.

When you go so far as creating the third reich and nearly murdering citizens with a war machine, there needs to be some kind of indication that you changed and won't do it again.

Crappy life notwithstanding, I fully accept that Static was a character I can't blame for hating after what he did to Silent Belle. It was after he showed he changed and was truly one of the good guys that he was likable.

Not that he earned redemption. If you had to earn redemption, that's a lot of impossible penance for someone who created a third reich regime and nearly murdered citizens. I just ask that he prove that he's changed and is one of the good guys now.

 

[Shadewing]

Remember, this is Pony. Usually 'I'm sorry' is about all you get.

 

[M. Virion]

...and he even had a lame villain song

Those are fighting words. Danger, Danger was the only good thing about him, and honestly the biggest bop in the movie.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

Maybe it was okay but the bar for villain songs is really high.

 

[M. Virion]

We're just going to have to disagree, cause I thought it was excellent.

 

[Caldwin]

Eh...relied too much on Offspring/Nirvana. I mean, I absolutely can not not hear it. Not sure if I'm hearing Smells Like Teen Spirit or Self Esteem...but yeah...

 

[M. Virion]

I mean, that's part of why it's great, imo.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

There is a nearly 100% chance that I don't recognize the influences, so maybe that has something to do with it.

 

[wonko the sane?]

You know... I think the best redemption for sprout is probably ironic.

He doesn't go to jail, he doesn't (directly) do community service, and I would seriously doubt the structural integrity of anything he built with his own two hoofs (I mean, seriously? You got a ******* FLYWHEEL, and it's secured with a lynchpin? The ******* psycho. ORKZ build better than he does.).

Nope: I think he gets a new job. Specifically; assistant to sunny, whom becomes the ambassador for earthponies and maretime bay. Then he gets to travel the world, see everything he was raised to be scared of, and "actively" take part in making the world a better place. Because his problem is that he's small. He's never been further than four blocks from his mothers apron strings, and never seen outside of his home town.

Force him out, force him to LEARN, to experience and to grow. He'll realize on his own how bad he was, and beg the populations to forgive him.

THEN you send him to jail for war crimes: cause seriously: that mech was a war crime.