Masterpiece Thread

Shadewing

Well-known member
Citizen
I think The Headmasters is a boring slog of a show that is like 100% better if you watch the Omni dub over the original Japanese version with subtitles (because at least the dub is funny).

But also I'd still rather watch it over The Rebirth because at least it's a full show and not just three episodes.

Yeah. Headmasters is boring as hug; I remember for awhile I worked on a fan dub of the series (well all three) as a writer and we were always trying to punch up the scripts for Headmasters while still being accurate as possible. We didn't have to do that as much with our attempts at Masterforce or Victory.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
I've sat through all three shows from start to finish.

The Headmasters was definitely a dull slog but did have its moments however few and far between, and I likewise still prefer it over The Rebirth (not just because it's a full series compared to a three-parter, but so many things rubbed me the wrong way in that three-parter).

Masterforce is solid and fun from start to finish, and easily ranks within the Top 6 of my favorite TF shows.

Victory is an okay show for the first half, but gets much better once Liokaiser is finally introduced and really takes off to become pretty great from that point onward.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
Headmasters is far from peak, and they did Arcee dirty, but I feel like it goes a long way to redeem a lot of the TFTM/season three guys.

And as Princess Viola said, at the very least it gives that year's worth of toys/characters more time to shine since it's not rushing to fit everything into three episodes.

Plus I just prefer how Japan does Headmasters 🤷🏻‍♂️

I also dig some of the planet of the week plots.

Masterforce and Victory, though, are amazing.
 

MrBlud

Well-known member
Citizen
At that time, I expressed my great displeasure over how Hasbro (though, I have suspicions that it was probably more specifically Rik Alvarez) had changed and rewritten the subtitle scripts to be so inaccurate and unfaithful to the original dialogue.

And what kind of response did I get from other users both on this board and other boards? 90% people basically telling me to shut up and stop being such a whiny weeb and just be glad and grateful that we got these DVD sets at all, because nobody actually really cares about the original Japanese stuff anyway. 🙄

Neither of you were wrong in that scenario.

It *was* dumb and insulting to cram in English vernacular that has no business being in there.

You *should* be grateful because a vanishingly small amount of the buying public actually cares about the original Japanese stuff given that was the one and only time they bothered to release it.

As an aside, did we ever figure out what the first Hasbro lead new mold of a character only featured in Japanese media was since it wasn’t Haslab Star Saber? Titans Return Sky Shadow? Something even earlier?
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
There was that Generations Black Shadow that was a Hasbro-original retool of Generations Thunderwing. But I feel like there might have been something even earlier than that (and I'm not counting the Fun Pub figures, either).

Maybe the two Universe Leo Prime figures that were a both Hasbro-original head retools of Cybertron Leobreaker?
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
It *was* dumb and insulting to cram in English vernacular that has no business being in there.

You *should* be grateful because a vanishingly small amount of the buying public actually cares about the original Japanese stuff given that was the one and only time they bothered to release it.
I admit I don't mind changes. Victory, which is one of my favourite TF shows ever, was first introduced to me by an amateur fan sub that called God Ginrai "Apex Prime." Heck, I thought that was Ginrai's official English language name for years because of that, and it's still my preferred "Westernized" name for him. F that "Magnus Prime" crap, "Apex Prime" forever!

While the localization industry has, for the past ten years or so, made a real effort to retain as much of the original as possible I still don't think it's necessarily bad if changes are made to make something more Western audience friendly, if done properly. And also so long as the original is available for people who prefer that.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
As I said before, it wasn't just names that were changed. Entire lines of dialogue were rewritten to say things that weren't at all accurate to what was being spoken verbally by the characters. Oftentimes, this was done to add in references to Aligned and/or IDW1 lore, or even TFTM quotes, all of which had no business being in the subtitle translations for any of those three series, and only served to lie to the viewers with low-hanging fan service.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
As I said before, it wasn't just names that were changed. Entire lines of dialogue were rewritten to say things that weren't at all accurate to what was being spoken verbally by the characters. Oftentimes, this was done to add in references to Aligned and/or IDW1 lore, or even TFTM quotes, all of which had no business being in the subtitle translations for any of those three series, and only served to lie to the viewers with low-hanging fan service.
That has Alvarez stink all over it, yeah.
 

LBD "Nytetrayn"

Broke the Matrix
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
I've always wondered how much editing it would take to turn Masterforce into something fitting Hasbro's lore. Like the Shout sub, but taken to a Macek tier extreme.
As I said before, it wasn't just names that were changed. Entire lines of dialogue were rewritten to say things that weren't at all accurate to what was being spoken verbally by the characters. Oftentimes, this was done to add in references to Aligned and/or IDW1 lore, or even TFTM quotes, all of which had no business being in the subtitle translations for any of those three series, and only served to lie to the viewers with low-hanging fan service.
Got any examples? Of the "before" and "after" variety?
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Got any examples? Of the "before" and "after" variety?
Certainly!

Throughout all three DVD sets, instances of various exclamations and interjections were all streamlined to default to such phrases as "Scrap!" and "By the AllSpark!" This was done arbitrarily as though someone just did a quick "Find and replace" for certain words that had originally been used in the Metrodome subtitle scripts, with "Scrap" inserted in their stead, result in such awkward cases as "Scrap you!" and "Scrap it!" To say nothing of the fact that the AllSpark (the life-giving cube or other polyhedral relic, specifically) did not and does not exist in JG1.

In The Headmasters, every single instance of the words "Cassette", "Cassettron", and "Cassettebot" (the latter two of which had already been appropriately localized by Metrodome's subs as "Decepticon Cassette" and "Autobot Cassette", respectively) was changed to "Deployer", which is what the then-new Exodus novel referred to Soundwave's minions as before the RID 2015 toyline would instead apply that term to individuals like Soundwave who had smaller minions (e.g. - Drift, Fracture, Overload, and Crazybolt) instead of the minions themselves. In the case of The Headmasters, this meant that an anachronistic term was put into use for a series that long predated even the original use of the Deployer term from Beast Machines, and anyone watching the DVDs with no familiarity with the "Deployer" term was given no context for it whatsoever. For instance, the title of the series's fourth episode, which Metrodome had subbed as "Operation: Cassette", was now subbed as the more awkward "Operation: Autobot Deployers".

When Sixshot first introduces himself to Ultra Magnus in the first episode of The Headmasters, he refers to himself with the title of "Destron Dinobase Ninja Sanbō" (デストロンダイノベース忍者参謀), which Metrodome had previously subtitled as "Decepticon Dinobase Ninja Commander". The Shout subs instead changed this altogether to "Phase Six Decepticon officer", in deliberate reference to IDW1 Sixshot being a Phase Sixer, which is a concept that has zero presence in JG1 and did not exist until decades after The Headmasters. It also removed the point of the original Japanese title that presented Sixshot as the Decepticon counterpart of Ultra Magnus, in that both were the commanders of their respective cities, with Magnus being the City Commander of Autobot City (which included Metroplex) while Sixshot was the commander of Dinobase, which was the Japanese name of Trypticon's city mode. This was meant to further setup the rivalry the two would have over the course of the series, but the "Phase Six" reference ruined that setup by nixing it altogether in favor of a nod to something that has no business being in The Headmasters.

In the third episode of The Headmasters, we got a TFTM reference that completely inversed the context of the original Japanese dialogue that it replaced. In this episode, the Autobots were trying to get the Matrix back to full power so that it could help them to stabilize Vector Sigma, which had started running out of control ever since the Matrix had lost all its energy back in "The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 2". The Matrix and Vector Sigma shared a connection that made the power of the Matrix vital to Vector Sigma as well. Near the end of the episode, the Autobots had brought the Matrix to Vector Sigma's chamber, where the ghost of Alpha Trion instructed Hot Rod to lift it up high so that he (Trion) could use the last of his own energy to fully restore the Matrix (which had been only partially restored by that point, Trion was going to top off its power to bring Matrix back to 100% power). When Alpha Trion's ghost sacrificed the last of his essence to the Matrix, he spoke directly to the Matrix itself, beckoning it to please be restored with cosmic wisdom and power in this final act by Alpha Trion. In other words, the Matrix was the one in need during this scene, the one being saved by the others. For once, it wasn't the one doing the saving like it so often does in other cases. The Shout subtitles, however, completely inverted that whole point! They replaced Alpha Trion's beckoning speech wholecloth with "May the Matrix of Leadership light out darkest hour!" That is not what was happening! The Matrix didn't light anyone's darkest hour, Alpha Trion lit the Matrix's darkest hour! Not the other way around!

Meanwhile, in the Masterforce subs, every instance talking about the different kinds of Chokon Power was changed to instead talk about Energon, with all three powers changed to "Earth Energon" for Chichokon, "Star Energon" for Tenchokon, and "Spark Energon" for Jinchokon, removing all of the original mysticism behind the three Chokon Powers since now they're just Energon. Because humans totally have "Spark Energon" running through their flesh and blood bodies. 😒
 

MrBlud

Well-known member
Citizen
There was that Generations Black Shadow that was a Hasbro-original retool of Generations Thunderwing. But I feel like there might have been something even earlier than that (and I'm not counting the Fun Pub figures, either).

Maybe the two Universe Leo Prime figures that were a both Hasbro-original head retools of Cybertron Leobreaker?

Those are remolds/recolors though. Same as Thunderwing/Sky Shadow.

Titans Return Sky Shadow was released first (as a premold of Overlord) so that would technically count.

The earliest Japanese only character that had no Hasbro counterpart was probably Metalhawk? Overlord got released in Europe by Hasbro but not here. Dai Atlas got King Atlas but that was another repaint. Ricochet got a 2011 Alternator release.

If Hasbro doesn’t count TR Sky Shadow because they made the mold “for” Overlord and Overlord himself wouldn’t count because a Hasbro subsidiary *did* release the original; than Haslab Star Saber might indeed be the first Hasbro new mold for a Japanese only character.
 

Haywire

Collecter of Gobots and Godzilla
Citizen
I just think the inaccurate subs are annoying; I don't speak enough Japanese to watch them without subs, but I do speak enough to get tripped up by the name changes.

Regarding Cancer specifically; he's named after the crab constellation, right? There's surely a name for that constellation in some language that doesn't have a bad connotation in English that Hasbro could adopt for the Masterforce character if they really want to scrub the original? Or, pull a Trigun and just call him the very specific "Cancer the Crab" from here on out so there's no misunderstanding...
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
TR Sawback is Lione from The Headmasters, and he released before Shuffler.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Regarding Cancer specifically; he's named after the crab constellation, right? There's surely a name for that constellation in some language that doesn't have a bad connotation in English that Hasbro could adopt for the Masterforce character if they really want to scrub the original? Or, pull a Trigun and just call him the very specific "Cancer the Crab" from here on out so there's no misunderstanding...
There's even another Transformers character based on the crab constellation who's so obscure that using his name as a friendly Trademark for Masterforce Cancer would have sufficed: "Cancix".

Even sounds more "Transformers-y" than just the word "Cancer" unaltered.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Although, if we want to know the first Hasbro release of a Japanese-original character ever, then in might be the Beast Machines Dinobots release of Magmatron.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
Yeah I think it's Magmatron. Japanese exclusive character Hasbro released and they didn't use the mould for anything else before that.

Additionally "first use of the mould" seems like a weird qualifier. The HasLab hype comment was that Star Sabre was the first time a Japanese exclusive character had been done by Hasbro. No mention of "first use of a mould" or anything like that.
And heck... that's just not true.

But yeah... even if you want to get that specific about it (which is giving Hasbro the benefit of the doubt by insisting on a qualifier they never made themselves) it still doesn't work.
 


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