Original Hardware vs. Emulation

[Caldwin]

So, I have a decent NES/SNES cartridge library. But there were also a lot of games I rented as a kid but could never actually own. So with the Virtual Console, e-shops, mini-consoles, collections...I've gotten quite a few emulated games.

Also, like, I have Castlevania 1, but not 2, 3, Super, etc. So I still got the collection for the other games and now have Castlevania 1 on NES cartridge and emulated...actually several different ways.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I only ever rented Ninja Gaiden and Contra. So it was pretty awesome after so long being able to finally play those games on Mini-NES and Switch Konami collections respectively. But because I remember renting them as a kid, guess what I've been getting off E-Bay lately.

So, the point of this thread...well for one thing, how do you make polls? Polls were easy on the old boards but I can't find the function here. I want want to know who prefers one over the other...or who even cares.

Personally, I really do feel a big difference between original cartridges and emulation, not least of which are CRT line scans (which has never really looked right when emulation tries to artificially put them in). Especially playing Mario and Ninja Gaiden (very twitch gameplay type games), control lag really is a thing that exists.

But is one better than the other? I mean, nostalgia's a hell of a drug. I absolutely love playing the original cartridge on the original system with the original controller on an original CRT. But when I want to be sitting on my couch instead of my backbreaking no-lumbar office chair, I'm not adverse to playing on the Switch on my big screen HD with a pro-controller.

Okay, I rambled on a bit here...and I can't help but feel that this thread would have more purpose if I could figure out how to make a poll. Still...I'd love to hear other stories/opinions.

 

[ZakuConvoy]

Well, it's hard to beat the convenience of emulation. It's a lot easier these days to just use Nintendo Online's catalog of games and just play for a bit, rather than hooking up a 30 year old NES. And some TVs might even need special adapters if you want to hook it up.

Plus, emulation has the convenience of save states and rewind. For some of these old games, I would have NEVER been able to beat them without save states. Sure, some might decry that as "cheating", but I haven't been able to beat Ninja Gaiden in 30 years without it. There's just a lot of quality of life features that emulation offers. Different filters and modes. It's a lot more customizable.

As for myself, I think emulation makes these games more FUN to play. Some of these old games...weren't really designed to be beaten, exactly. Just to eat up time so you'd have to rent them multiple times or to force you to buy the official guidebook or at least a issue of a magazine. People just played games differently and expected different things from their games, back in the day. I can't blame people who don't have the patience for something that's purposely DESIGNED to be frustrating.

Plus, it's usually cheaper. (We can debate the merits of Nintendo's subscription system some other time). Some of those original cartridges can go for crazy prices nowadays. If you want to play these games, it's usually cheaper to find them emulated on a collection with 5 other games in the same series or some such.

But, I can't really fault anyone for preferring the original hardware. It plays the way you remember, more often than not. I don't think I ever played any of those old games long enough to get pixel-perfect with any of them, but I can't fault anyone who does. Unless it's REALLY bad, I have a hard time noticing any differences from emulation, myself, though.

There might be a bit of a middle ground here, like with the NES Classic and other such similar retro systems. That's technically emulation, but it's close enough to original hardware for me, personally.

So, I guess I vote "Emulation". It's more convenient, makes the games easier to beat, more fun to play, more customizable, and cheaper. As long as the emulation is...y'know..."good", and doesn't break the games or make it so different effects don't play right (...like maybe some of the N64 games on NSO).

 

[Caldwin]

Well, it's hard to beat the convenience of emulation. It's a lot easier these days to just use Nintendo Online's catalog of games and just play for a bit, rather than hooking up a 30 year old NES. And some TVs might even need special adapters if you want to hook it up.

I've heard this a few times. I must be an odd one. I keep my current systems (PS3, PS4, Switch, WiiU) in my living room attached to my regular television. But in my office, I have one dest dedicated to my iMac and another desk dedicated to my NES, SNES, N64 and Genesis. They're always hooked up to my CRT. But I'm guessing I'm in a vast minority with that.

Plus, emulation has the convenience of save states and rewind. For some of these old games, I would have NEVER been able to beat them without save states. Sure, some might decry that as "cheating", but I haven't been able to beat Ninja Gaiden in 30 years without it. There's just a lot of quality of life features that emulation offers. Different filters and modes. It's a lot more customizable.

It's kinda cheating, I guess, as far as using options not originally intended by the original programmers. But then I'm a hard core code user, bug exploiter, save scummer type person so I'm hardly one to judge.

And I think this is one of those case by case things. Zelda II Adventure of Link absolutely needs save states. I'll save state a lot of things. But Ninja Gaiden and Contra...I'm probably not going to beat with or without save states. TMNT I've accepted that there's a few fun stages, but right before the Dam level is usually where I shut it off. These games, save states don't mean much to me because I'm not expecting to beat them anyway. I just want to waste a few minutes playing the stages I'm comfortable with. But that's a case by case thing.

As for myself, I think emulation makes these games more FUN to play. Some of these old games...weren't really designed to be beaten, exactly. Just to eat up time so you'd have to rent them multiple times or to force you to buy the official guidebook or at least a issue of a magazine. People just played games differently and expected different things from their games, back in the day. I can't blame people who don't have the patience for something that's purposely DESIGNED to be frustrating.

That's also really a case by case basis. TMNT II The Arcade Game I would often use a cheat code for extra lives, even a level skip. But there was a certain satisfaction when I learned that I didn't really NEED the code any more because I had gotten so good at it. Zelda 1 I've played so often, I have no problem beating it in just a few days.

I still haven't beaten any of the 8-Bit Marios. I don't think I'll ever beat Contra. But when I messed up putting in the code today but decided to play it anyway...no code, no save states...I really had a sense of satisfaction when I made just made it to the fourth level. Less than a year ago, I would've been hard pressed to get past the first level without the Konomi Code. Same with the NES Batman. I'll never get close to beating it. But man oh man, just getting to the point where I'm consistently hitting level 2...I was never able to do that as a kid.

That's one thing about me and NES games. I never really felt the need to beat them. There are a few that I can beat. But there some that I can't so I just have fun getting as far as I can. Winning wasn't always something that was expected with these games.

Plus, it's usually cheaper. (We can debate the merits of Nintendo's subscription system some other time). Some of those original cartridges can go for crazy prices nowadays. If you want to play these games, it's usually cheaper to find them emulated on a collection with 5 other games in the same series or some such.

Now this I absolutely agree. Contra Anniversary Collection with all of the games plus Japanese versions is $19.99. I just spent $40.25 (including shipping) for the first Contra alone...and I'm still going to have to get a case at some point. So this above anything is why I really don't put down emulation at all. I've personally gotten a LOT of games from e-shop and collections...for one thing because I can't always find them on e-bay...but also even if I could, they're usually far more expensive.

Again, case by case basis. I got several collections of Genesis games. There are some I bought separately because of the collector in me (Sonic, Sonic 2, Altered Beast). But as much as I like Streets of Rage, Shinobi and others...I'm not about to spend top dollar on eBay for them.

Likewise, I may have gotten Ninja Gaiden and Contra because they're my more nostalgic games. But as much as I love Mega Man, Super Castlevania, Kid Icarus...I have no inclination of spending top dollar for those either.

But, I can't really fault anyone for preferring the original hardware. It plays the way you remember, more often than not. I don't think I ever played any of those old games long enough to get pixel-perfect with any of them, but I can't fault anyone who does. Unless it's REALLY bad, I have a hard time noticing any differences from emulation, myself, though.

There might be a bit of a middle ground here, like with the NES Classic and other such similar retro systems. That's technically emulation, but it's close enough to original hardware for me, personally.

You see, my previous points kinda tie in to this as well. My opinions here...Kid Icarus, similar enough. Super Castevania, similar enough. Mega Man 2, similar enough.

Contra, I want the original. Ninja Gaiden, I want the original. Zelda, Metroid...I want the original.

There's something about a true CRT television that the filters on the mini-NES just doesn't capture. If you play the mini-NES, particularly on faster paced games, you will notice the timing is just ever so slightly different. A casual player may not notice. But when you have things down to muscle memory and then all of a sudden you start dying on emulator, then go back and do just fine on the original...you do notice it.

So, I guess I vote "Emulation". It's more convenient, makes the games easier to beat, more fun to play, more customizable, and cheaper. As long as the emulation is...y'know..."good", and doesn't break the games or make it so different effects don't play right (...like maybe some of the N64 games on NSO).

You see, I'm just not sure it's so cut and dry for me. If I did put up that poll, I'd have a hard time voting. It's just such a case by case basis. Some games, I absolutely want the original. Some games, it doesn't really matter. Some games, yeah I'd like the original, but when I can get an entire collection for a fraction of the eBay price for just one of the games...it's hard to come down totally on one side.

I will say that when it comes to Contra and Ninja Gaiden...I am so glad to have found the originals.

 

[Exatron]

If there were truly such a thing as perfect emulation, I'd probably go that route. I've certainly played plenty of games using various forms of emulation, and a lot of it can be pretty good. But inevitably, I'll run into something that isn't quite right, and it tends to pull me completely out of the experience. Maybe nothing has been more disappointing than things like getting to the ending of a game like Final Fantasy IV or OoT, and finding that the visuals and music get desynced and just completely fail to line up together correctly. After several experiences like that, I strongly prefer original hardware.

Now, I'm purely speaking about the consoles here. I don't own any more CRTs, and I have no intention of ever getting another one. As far as I'm concerned, those are best left buried in the past. Sucks that I won't be able to use things like my NES zapper or Super Scope without them, but they aren't worth having to deal with CRTs again. I am perfectly content with flat widescreen TVs from here on out.

I'm also good with making upgrades to my hardware. In the lead up to Metroid Dread, I modded my GBA so I could better experience Zero Mission. It had been on my to-do list for a long time, but a new Metroid game was the impetus to finally go do it. I similarly want to mod my older consoles to get a clean RGB output once we finish our home remodel. First up will be my N64, since the TV I use for my older consoles can't seem to handle that console's video output for some reason.

...

And as I typed all this, I came to a sudden realization. As part of that console enhancement, I've been planning to get flash carts so I could have access to my full library while keeping all my actual cartridges safely stored away. I'd picked out exactly what I wanted to get, and was just waiting on finishing this remodel to actually spend the money. A whole assortment of Everdrives. From Ukraine...

Hardly a big deal compared to everything else going on over there, but that realization just dampened my mood considerably. A quick check shows they're all sold out everywhere, aside from a few massively overpriced on eBay. Guess there goes those plans.

 

[The Doctor Who]

I mean, original hardware is great, but collecting and maintaining it can be pricey, especially for more obscure consoles/Specific PC builds. Not to mention the demand for space for keeping multiple consoles/TVs/PCs around.

Basically, great if you can afford it, but emulators can be more convenient.

 

[Pocket]

My only experience with emulators is the kind that run on PCs, and I don't know if my reaction time is good enough to even judge if there's input lag or not. That said, I've heard that some of the worst lag tends to come from the TV; for a long time, flatscreen TVs have been infamous for having lag compared to tube TVs or even desktop monitors, although a number of monitors are specifically sold as having minimum delay so maybe some monitors have the issue too.

A YouTuber known as the 8 Bit Guy actually wrote a custom program to test the difference in video and audio delay between his real Commodore 64 and a dedicated emulation device currently being sold. What it does is simply change the color of the background and beep any time a key is pressed; then he used the camera to record himself using it, and analyzed the video frame by frame to see how many frames pass between him striking the key and either output happening. I suppose a similar approach could work for just comparing the latency of your monitor vs. your TV; you'd just need a computer portable enough to connect to both.