Rocky/Creed

[Caldwin]

I was reminiscing with a co-worker about old movies and he asked me if I've seen Rocky. Well, not really. I have all of the Rambo movies, but I've never really seen Rocky. I mean, I vaguely remember watching one or two of them as a kid. I vaguely remember Dolf Lundgren killing Apollo in the third one. Uh..no...that was the fourth one. Was it? Well, shows you how much I remember of them.

So I got the Bluray box set from Amazon that has Rocky 1-5 as well as Rocky Balboa. Plan is to marathon these. Not sure if I can promise how often I'll be watching the next one (nightly, weekly, monthly). But I do want to get through these. So tonight I'm going to start with the first one.

Now to be honest, I'm not going in completely blind. I watched a reaction on Youtube not too long ago. So I know that, unlike what you'd think, there's less boxing in this movie and more drama. But like most reactions, you're talking about a 2 hour movie condensed down to a 20-30 minute reaction that shows maybe 5 minutes of movie footage. So I'm still going into this mostly blind.

After the Movie
ROCKY I

Well that was actually surprisinglly good. Like, I knew there was going to be more drama than boxing...but like, there wasn't even much boxing until they started the training montage with only 25 minutes left to go. The meat pounding that was so iconic didn't really take up as much time as I honestly thought it would. It was more about the relationship between Rocky and Adrian than it was about actually boxing.

What surprised me most was just how little screen time Carl Weathers had. I'm sure he'll get more screen time in the next couple movies. But here, it's like he had a scene to start off the underdog plot and then you hardly even see him until the climax of the film

So, 47 years old and I'm only just now getting around to seeing this classic. I have to say, I really enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would. Can't wait to see the next one.

 

[Axaday]

I was pretty similar to you at one point. I had seen some of Rocky 4 and 5 as a kid and had some rough understanding of how the series went. I bought 1-5 when 6 was about to come out and watched the whole series with a couple of friends, one who had some them all and one who had seen none. The first one is totally off from what we now know as the mold for sports films.

Spoiler

The second one is on the mold, but really without feeling like a sellout. The third is not really great in my opinion but does continue the development of a key relationship. The fourth is just blockbuster fun, but it really is fun. The fifth is just not good in any way. The sixth is worth its weight in gold.

 

[Caldwin]

That's two down. I'm not quite sure what to say about this one. Whereas the first one surprised me with just how much of a love story/get out of the down and out life was versus a boxing movie...this one was much more the usual underdog sports movie.

It still had its drama with Adrian and the baby. But it had much more of the boxing than the first one.

Creed also felt a bit more antagonistic in this one than he did the first. Like in the first one, he was all business and really giving Rocky a chance and was actually pretty nice about it, he was slightly more antagonistic in this one. But at the same time, you can understand why.

I know at some point they actually become close buds. So I can't wait to see the next one. Not sure when that'll be. But I'm still on board for it.

 

[Axaday]

I am too young to know whether Rocky subverted expectations by having him lose or whether Rocky 2 might have been part of establishing the trope. He couldn't lose again, though. I think if they had stopped at two they would have stood really well that way.

Rocky's son has an interesting through line. Milo Ventimiglia has a cameo at the end of Creed where he becomes the first actor to play Robert twice. Other than that he was recast in every movie. Two of Stallone's sons played him. I think Milo was a big part of selling Creed.

 

[Caldwin]

Rocky III

Part 1: Ramblings
"Eye of the Tiger" finally makes its debut. The fight with Hogan was 100% nuts. Like, he was a complete jerk throughout the whole fight but was then totally cool right afterwards. Totally nuts. Also interesting seeing Mr. T. in an antagonistic role. Adrien also went from the painfully shy one to really standing up to Rocky in this one. Honestly, I think I knew Mickey died in one of the movies, but I honestly thought it would come later. That left me with some tears in my eyes. I really like Apollo's character arc so far. In the first one, he wasn't even that antagonistic towards Rocky. He was just a business man giving an underdog a chance. He was slightly more antagonistic in the second movie. But this movie they finally became firm friends. I absolutely love it. It's going to make the next movie all the more heartbreaking though.

Part 2: Review
I've noticed something with Rocky that also has some parallels with Rambo. When you think of Rambo, your run of the mill chap would think of a bloody movie about an army guy with a machine gun killing people and blowing jive up. But if you watch the first movie, it's relatively bloodless and has a surprisingly low bodycount all things considered. It's about a Vietnam Vet suffering from PTSD and it has some really poignant moments. It isn't until the sequels where it starts to become the crazy bloody action type movies.

The same could be said about Rocky. You think about Rocky, the run of the mill chap would think boxing movie. The first movie is actually very much more of a drama. Boxing is kind of a backdrop. But now with the sequels, it still has some dramatic moments, but it's veering more and more towards 'boxing movie'.

Not sure if that's good or bad. I'm just saying that the sequels seem to have a different aim than the original.

I like this one. It has Hulk Hogan, Mr. T., the point where Rocky and Apollo finally become friends instead of rivals. It still has it's dramatic moments. It's a really good movie.

But I'm afraid it's started to move away from the character-driven charm that really drove the movie. Like, it hasn't completely lost it yet. It still has its moments. But like Rambo, it's starting to move towards being what everyone thinks of when they think "Rocky" instead of what Rocky actually was.

Part 3: Rating
Three and a half out of five stars. It's still a great movie. I really enjoyed it. I honestly may have to watch it again some time. But as many sequels do, it's starting to lose sight of what made the original so great.

 

[Axaday]

4 gets to the peak of what you are talking about. It still has heart and drama, but it was made to really, really sell popcorn.

If you don't know, Vince DiCola scored 4. Listen for Unicron's Theme. It is in there. The music all over the film sounds like a track from Transformers the Movie that you forgot about.

But 6 will get back close to how you felt about 1, I think.

 

[Caldwin]

Rocky IV

Okay, opening credits you see a Soviet glove and an American glove. You see, kids, there was this thing called the Cold War that was still going on back in the 80s. And if you think things are tense with Russia now...whoa boy!

So anyway, the gloves take off and hit each other and boy oh boy were those some atrocious effects.

Woah! Music composed by Vince DiCola? Okay, for obvious reasons I have nothing but love and adoration for Vince DiCola. That said, I sure hope I don't start hearing Transformers synth rock in Rocky. I just don't know how I'd feel about that.

Oh for crying out loud. Is there seriously a robot bringing in a birthday cake? Okay, I'm going to stop doing a play by play after this only because this will take all night if I keep doing this. But a friggen robot? I'm sorry, but I'm calling it now. This is the moment the franchise jumped the shark...not V, but right here!

Okay, that's all until the end of the movie.

After the Movie

So there's something about the previous 3 movies where you could watch them back in the 80's, you could watch them now. They were timeless. They had a real human feeling, balancing the boxing with family. Do what you have to do. It had meaning no matter what decade you're living in.

This one though, with the 80's synth soundtrack, the 80's robot at home, the over all Cold War setting...this film is firmly dated in during the 80's Cold War era. No way around it. It is absolutely a story about that period in time.

That alone may not be a bad thing necessarily. Some of the best James Bond films were very Cold Warish. But when you compare this Rocky movie to the others, being dated like this just kinda kills the feeling of what Rocky has been about.

Okay, full honesty. Like I said in my first post, I vaguely remember watching one or two Rocky movies as a kid. Of any hazy memories I have, I remember Drago killing Creed. That little bit means that this movie here is what I remember most when I remember Rocky from my childhood.

So I don't want to be too terribly harsh on this. But when I compare the deep, meaningful drama of the first couple movies to the 80's camp popcorn flick this one has become, I can't be too positive either. I've heard several times people say that V is the worst of the Rocky films. That makes me very nervous going into the next one, because this has so far been a personal low point in the series so far.

Two and a half stars out of five. That's straight down the center. It's watchable, but only barely. It's lost too much of the charm its predecessors had and it's getting some increasingly silly bits.

Oh, and btw, yes, I could totally hear some Transformers styling in the music. And like I said, I love and respect Vince DeCola. But I'm not sure a Rocky film is where his music belongs.

 

[Axaday]

I am surprised that the fun and the spectacle didn't raise it up for you. Behind 6, 4 is the most likely one I would go watch again some time soon. I agreed with what you wrote about 3 when you wrote it, but I've never seen it again.

Even if 4 wasn't your cup of tea, you are going to like 5 less.

But 6 is really, really nice. And Creed is actually fairly sequely to it. Creed 2 pulls some drama out of Rocky 4 that you didn't know was in there. I think you'll like everything after 5.

 

[Caldwin]

I don't have the Creed series yet. I did just order the Expendables set. So that'll probably be my short break from Rocky in my Stalloneathon. But if I really like Rocky Balboa (which it really sounds like I should), I'll probably shell out for a Creed collection. I'm just kinda bummed that Apollo wouldn't be in it. I haven't seen much with Carl Weathers (Rocky, Predator, first couple seasons of Mandolorian), but he always is fun to watch when I do see him in something.

 

[Axaday]

If Creed 3 has come out, I didn't see it. Stallone wasn't involved.

I saw Expendables 1 and 2 and that was fun. But that's gonna be your Rocky 4 thing, not your Rocky 1 thing.

Edit - Know what? I've seen First Blood, but I haven't seen any of its sequels.

 

[Caldwin]

Kinda like Rocky, the Rambo sequels are fine as their own thing, but kinda miss what made the first one so great.

A coworker also said the third Expendables movie wasn't so good. But it came with the other two in the box set, so I guess I'll find out for myself.

I probably will get the Creed set. Unfortunately, whereas Rocky, Rambo and Expendables each have pretty box sets, all I see for Creed is one of those normal Bluray cases with 3 movies in it. I mean, I'll get the normal case if that's all there is, but box sets are so much prettier.

 

[Caldwin]

Rocky V

You know, I've tried to come at these movies with a critical eye. I may not be a professional media critic by a long shot, but I like to think I can generally give some kind of critical thinking in my reviews. Maybe not a Siskel and Ebert type review, but at least an A to B grade summer college criticism class kind of review. But this movie just really tries me.

First movie Rocky starts out in a rough city and has to fight his way to the top. Second movie, Creed know exactly what buttons to push to get in the ring. Third movie, Rocky's pride gets the better of him and he loses everything to it and has to fight his way back to the top. Forth movie, vengence for a friends death, pure and simple.

Every Rocky movie, even the one I was more critical of, came from very human problems that were very believable. This one...yeah, I get the brain damage. I've been seeing it coming ever since the second one started giving Rocky distorted vision while Creed was nocking him around. Good point to move on from.

But it wasn't enough. They had to take his home, estrange his son (which boy oh boy did I want to knock Rocky up side the head myself a few times there), have him get stabbed in the back by his protege. At some point it's like...give me a hugging break and stop piling it on. Where the other movies felt like the struggles came from some place real, from the characters own strengths and weaknesses, this one felt so contrived trying to get Rocky back to the bottom.

And for all the emphasis put on the brain damage, that seemed to get dropped the moment the street fight started because Rocky didn't seem to be suffering any ill effects in the least after that.

Which, oh my goodness, a street fight. They ended this hugging movie on a street fight! Are you hugging kidding me? This is Rocky. You expect boxing, not a street fight. Who thought this was a good idea.

And for that matter, most of the boxing was done by the snot nosed kid. Rocky barely did anything until the street fight. No training montage. No boxing ring. Just...what even was that?

And you know, I'm sure there really are promoters like that snake-in-the-grass used car-salesman. But he was so annoying, I couldn't help but role my eyes every time he was on screen. It's like that guy in Lethal Weapon...I forget which one, one of the sequels...that kept breaking the law in the most grievous ways and then turned around and said "diplomatic immunity." Like, yeah, now I have three words for you, "persona non grata!" Same thing here, someone try to force their way into my house like this guy did in that Christmas scene, his ass better be bulletproof because I don't hugging play that jive.

I know they make these guys annoying to make it cathartic when they get their comeuppance. But there comes a point where it's not the character that's irritating me, it's the writers.

Okay...deep breath...

I was told this was the worst one and boy was it ever. One thing that always irritated me about Amazon reviews is that they don't allow for zero stars. You have to always at least give it that token star.

Well, this is my rating system and my rules. For a movie to reach zero stars though, it has to be utterly devoid of anything redeeming. I'm talking, it's not so bad it's good. It's so bad it's bad. The writing is bad. It totally misses the point of what's come before. It has nothing uplifting about it. There isn't even that one single scene that makes you think "yeah, the rest of this movie is bad, but I actually really liked this one single scene." It didn't even have that!

For all my criticism of IV, at least it had some drama with the loss of Creed and Rocky's training from hell to go against the impossible odds of fighting Drago. At least it had that much. This? I feel like I wasted 1 hour and 44 minutes of my life. And yes, I felt every one of them leave my body.

So...I'm afraid I have to do it. I absolutely have to do it. Zero out of five stars.

 

[Axaday]

What is REALLY great about it is that it was the finale. In 1990, that was how they decided to end Rocky's story. Until 2006 when they decided to do a legacy sequel. (and....I looked up the year to make sure I had things right and I was gut punched that that movie came out that long ago, but I know who I went and saw it with and the timing is correct). That was how they decided to round it out.

Thank goodness for 6.

 

[Caldwin]

Rocky Balboa

Okay, that was hugging amazing! It was pretty sad that Adrian was dead. But this film was so top notch.

They went back to being more drama story telling about the characters than boxing underdog just like the first movie. And unlike the other sequels, they didn't feel like they had to bust Rocky back to a pennyless guy trying to fight his way out of the rough side of the city. Here Rocky, well, he wasn't a millionaire, but he was doing alright for himself. He owned his own restaurant. The drama came from the fact that time was passing by. He was feeling old and really wanted one last hurrah. It's believable. It's relatable.

I also like how Mason wasn't some mustache twirling Snidely Whiplash. He was a champion whose reputation wasn't doing his career any favors. But there was no animosity between him and Rocky. There were some parallels to Creed in that respect.

Spoiler: And when it comes to the last fight

And when it comes to the last fight, I'm actually glad it didn't come down to Rocky knocking Mason out with an uncontested win. They knew better than to think that was even the point of the movie. Rocky didn't need to win. And considering he was coming out of retirement well past his prime, I wouldn't have found it believable if they had tried to go that way. But I can believe he got some good punches in. I can even believe he went the distance. That's what Rocky does. His whole game is about endurance. But he didn't need to win and the movie knew that. He just needed to get out some of the demons within.

Rocky had some pretty good sequels (mostly 2 and 3). But I love how much this one really understood what made the first one so iconic. I love how it really went back to it. I mean, it wasn't a beat for beat copy by any means. But it knew what made the first one great and it went back to its roots.

5 out of 5 stars...easy!

I also ordered the Creed set. It's still a shame it's a regular Bluray case instead of a box set. But hey, you get what you can get.

 

[Caldwin]

Creed

I honestly don't know what to make of this. I think I kinda need to process it some. Like, taken as its own movie, it was good. It was a really good movie.

As part of a franchise...I just don't know. I mean, it had the bits. Underdog coming from nowhere climbing the ranks. In the end he loses, but that doesn't matter because he proved he was real.

But we've steadily lost everyone we ever knew. Micky and and Apollo died in the original set of movies. Adrien died before Rocky Balboa. Paulie died between RB and this one. The only one left is Rocky. This character we knew since he was young and up and coming is old, losing everyone around him.

I'm sorry, this is hitting way too close to home for me right now. I know "47 ain't old." But I have lost people that, when I was younger, I just absolutely knew for certain would always be there for me. I only have one grandparent left, and the relationship there is strained. I've lost a cousin. An aunt isn't doing so well. It's adding up. And maybe "47 ain't old," but it sure ain't young either. And every day it just feels like time catching up with me.

And because of that, this movie...damn it's hitting too damn close to home right now.

Which I know is more of a thing about where I am in life and less anything to do with the movie. But...it just wasn't a pleasant watch. Great movie by any technical reasoning I can make. But I just can't right now.

That being the case, I really don't think I can give it a fair rating. I only have two more movies to watch. I intend to go through with them. But I hope things don't hit quite as hard going one from here, because I just don't know if I can take it.

 

[Axaday]

You are forgetting Robert. He's alive and in the final scene.

But it is better to think of Creed as a spinoff, rather than a continuation. Because they eventually drop Rocky altogether.

But I like the play between Rocky and Ivan in Creed 2.