Transformers: Age of the Primes toyline discussion 10/27 Update: First look at Megatronus the Fallen

GodSentinelOmega

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The fact that Prime now dies so often. I mean, at least once in every continuity. That it’s become a running joke, is both funny and kinda sad.

Though nothing will quite bit the Marvel G1 perfection of Prime doing in a computer game. Having his entire mind saved on a floppy disk. Get resurrected as PMOP. Die to Unicron, onky for part his mind to merge with Hi-Q, turning him into a version of Prime, who is then made into Prime by The Last Autobot.

As far as the Thirteen surviving their battle with Unicron. The Fallen being trapped works for him, as does the idea in G2 that Liege Maximo survived (I’m guessing) because he ran away. Vector secluding himself in a timeless void to watch the timeline makes sense. Macadam and The Last Autobot being Thirteen members? Sure I guess but then the survival rates goes up a little to far..

I like Maccadam just being some mysterious bartender.
 
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LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
The fact that Prime now dies so often. I mean, at least once in every continuity. That it’s become a running joke, is both funny and kinda sad.
I'd rather it just stop happening honestly. Optimus is the franchise mascot (or at least 1B to Bumblebee's 1A) and Hasbro's not going to kill him off because they're still gunshy over 1986. So just don't bother with it.

And who knows? If Optimus stops dying in shows and movies long enough then maybe they can actually kill him off in something down the road and have it work.

I like Maccadam just being some mysterious bartender.
I do too but that ship sailed. He's Alchemist Prime now and will be forever. I just hope his toy in AotP is of the design with the robot moustache and bowtie.

I'm certainly happy with what we got, but still, it's fun to imagine what might have been.
Basically where I'm at. Especially when you start piecing together the timeline of everything from the PC Diaclone mould's release to the launch of Transformers to the timeline of mould imports and when the movie went into production. This stuff's fun to me to piece out, and it's fun to me to speculate "well what if they did B instead of A?"
'cause not only does using the PC mould as an upgrade for Optimus get rid of Ultra Magnus, it also changes the mythology that was built into the brand to try and sell Optimus' death. So there's a lot of fun speculation IMO in trying to see how the brand could have changed had that happened.
Like geeze... I actually LIKE Ultra Magnus as a character so yeah. People can chill just a tad.
 
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GodSentinelOmega

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Agreed on both counts. Hasbro problem with Prime is basically the same as DC/Marvel with superheroes. Death has no meaning. They can now (try to) shock kill him as many times as they like, but we know it won’t stick.

Both ROTF and Animateds pilot kill and resurrect him within the Same story. TF Primes ending with him sacrificing himself to ignite Cybertron was awesome.

Then RID15 immediately starts his return.

As far as Alchemist. Yeah, you’re right, he is who he is now. But yeah, give us the ‘Stache. :)
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
As far as the Thirteen surviving their battle with Unicron. The Fallen being trapped works for him,
And that seems to have fallen (hehe) by the wayside a bit, as there have been fewer and fewer instances of The Fallen being sealed away in the many retellings of the backstory.

It started as such in the Dreamwave telling per War Within: The Dark Ages and The Ultimate Guide.

But then, for ROTF, since there was no ancient battle with Unicron in that version, it was changed from "the Thirteen fight Unicron" to "the Seven Primes fight The Fallen" (this is where the Aligned lore got its "War of the Primes" from). Earlier draft revisions for the movie's script had The Fallen get sealed away inside a sarcophagus that he would be released from upon Optimus Prime's death (and which the ROTF prequel comics were based on), but the final movie had The Fallen not be sealed in anything and just had him sitting around chilling inside the Nemesis simply waiting for Megatron to kill Optimus before doing anything.

Then Aligned came along with its novels and Covenant book that spoke of the "War of the Primes" wherein the Thirteen fought each other after all of them survived their battle with Unicron (basically having its cake and eating it too, combining both the Dreamwave and ROTF backstories into one), which ended with Megatronus being declared "the Fallen" and going into exile on a journey out into space.

...But then the Robots in Disguise 2015 cartoon was like "Nah, screw that misunderstood tragic backstory, he's an evil dude!" and depicted him as being imprisoned within another dimension... Somehow? He also blamed both Earth and Cybertron for his past defeat? (Huh?) And was able to cause the Alchemor to crash-land on Earth in order to manipulate Steeljaw into freeing him? Despite still being trapped in said other dimension? (What?) And was also the "first Decepticon" despite never directly influencing Megatron (the founder of the Decepticons) in this version? None of this makes any sense!

Er, anyway, IDW1 had Megatronus killed in battle with Prima and "Onyx Prime", so no sealing or exile there. While Machinima's Prime Wars Trilogy went with the exile route. And those of us who saw TF One all saw what happened in that version, too.

So yeah, it's become far less common for him to be sealed away.

I like Maccadam just being some mysterious bartender.
I do too but that ship sailed. He's Alchemist Prime now and will be forever.
As far as Alchemist. Yeah, you’re right, he is who he is now.
Though, the road to how he got to where he is was kind of a funny one.

The first inkling of Maccadam possibly being one of the Thirteen came from The Ultimate Guide in 2004, in which it said "It's rumored that the mysterious and rarely seen manager is one of the original 13 TRANSFORMERS, and that the bar itself exists out of normal space and time—mind you, Maccadams does serve exceptionally pure oil." So, it was ambiguous.

That same year, however, the Transformers Legends anthology book featured a story that really seemed to run with the notion of the pub existing outside of space-time. Titled "Prime Spark", the Optimuses of TFTM, Beast Wars, Beast Machines, and Armada all wound up transported to the pub upon each of their deaths (TFTM, Beast Wars's season 1 finale, Beast Machines's season 2 premier, and the Armada episode "Crisis"), presenting it as a sort of multiversal purgatory that these Optimuses briefly visited before they each returned to life (in "The Return of Optimus Prime", "Coming of the Fuzors (Part 2)", "Fallout" and "Miracle"). Now, the bartender in the story was never identified, and he was notably only said to be a bartender rather than the proprietor like The Ultimate Guide said, but the clues were still there.

Then, when the full roster of the Aligned Thirteen was revealed, fans noticed the absence of some key contenders that were speculated to be members of the Thirteen. Namely, the Last Autobot, Logos Prime, and Maccadam (plus the inclusion of Alpha Trion who was already known to have not been intended to be part of the Thirteen). So, when the Ask Vector Prime Facebook got the chance to, it created its own second roster of "Multiversal Thirteen", featuring those who would have most likely been on the team before the Aligned roster was finalized and revealed (albeit, including a few of Aligned roster's original additions). Logos Prime and the Last Autobot (given the name of "Autonomous Maximus") were included, Alpha Trion (and "Thirteen") was omitted, while Maccadam was... well...

One of the Aligned-originals included in the "Multiversal Thirteen" was Alchemist Prime. And in IDW1's comics, he was depicted as a bit of a drinker, something that hadn't been the case in the Aligned fiction itself (in fact, Maccadam himself even appeared in the novel "Retribution" as the pub's piano player, with zero indication that he had any relation to the Thirteen at all). As a sort of fun joke about IDW1 Alchemist's fondness for beverages, it was Chris McFeely who proposed to AVP author Jim Sorenson the half-joking possibility of the "Multiversal Thirteen" version of Alchemist Prime becoming Maccadam in his later life. Of course, the AVP Facebook was deliberately coy about this, hearkening back to The Ultimate Guide's original statement about Maccadam's status as a 13er being mere rumor by his drunken patrons. Still, the seed was planted, and a later prose story written in the comments section of one the lasts AVP posts (the absolutely massive "Echoes and Fragments") planted more seeds by subtly hinting at a brotherly connection between Maccadam and Vector Prime.

When the Cyberverse cartoon came along, it was then that the connection between Maccadam and Alchemist was made explicit. At BotCon 2023, I asked Maccadam's voice actor Dick Terhune directly about whether it was always planned to have Maccadam be Alchemist Prime or if it was a later development made as the series went on, and he said that he had researched the character on TFWiki and read the "he is rumored to be Alchemist Prime" bit, and had a feeling that that was where the character was going to go all along. He was like, "You can't say that about the character and just not include it!" So, it was always in the cards from the moment they decided to add Maccadam to the show.

Who knew that Cyberverse of all things would have made such a big mark in Transformers history? The show really was run by true geeks who had a passion for Transformers and its lore.
 
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Steevy Maximus

Well known pompous pontificator
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Maccadam is certainly one of the best parts of Cyberverse, in a show that has a lot of really good stuff in it.
I ADORED the first half of season 3. The Quintesson Occupation was some of the freshest Transformers TV I'd seen in years. And the odd ball character selection was so refreshing after years of Optimus and Bumblebee.

Too bad the toyline never bothered to live up to it. Whirl ended up with a mere One step, Most of the characters weren't available at the same time (with Breakdown not coming until a year LATER) and Perceptor never even got a toy.
 

GodSentinelOmega

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Now that really is the sign of a fan. Read a line of speculation? Hey, let’s have some with that! Yeah, Cyberverse was and is better than I give it credit for.

The Fallen flip-flopping between ‘evil dude’ and ‘tragic knight who falls into evil, then exiles himself’? I just prefer ‘always on fire demon king Prime’ over either of those. The machinima Prime Wars show running with the ‘he loves Solus then shoots her’ was…a choice.

It really does feel like the longer the Thirteen go on, the less mystical and demigod-like they become.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
The machinima Prime Wars show running with the ‘he loves Solus then shoots her’ was…a choice.
Sadly, that was basically what Aligned did too. The Exiles novel hinted at a love triangle between him, Solus, and Nexus, with him being so jealous that Solus favored Nexus over him that he killed her in a fit of rage.

But then the Covenant book changed that by having Megatronus and Solus be in a legit mutual relationship with no involvement from Nexus whatsoever, with Megatronus now being very insecure and misunderstood by the others instead of being secretly conniving and evil. Liege Maximo then began manipulating the two to drive a wedge of distrust between them, which ultimately led to a disagreement in which Megatronus shot Solus without thinking, having been set up by Maximo.

IDW1 had Megatronus kill Solus too, but with no relationship between the two this time. Instead, thanks to the machinations of "Onyx Prime", Megatronus and Liege Maximo sought to overthrow Prima, but Solus defended Prima and sacrificed herself to save him, taking a fatal blow meant for Prima for herself.

TheFirstWhoWasNamed-MegatronusKillsSolus.jpg
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
It really does feel like the longer the Thirteen go on, the less mystical and demigod-like they become.
That's going to be a natural consequence of actually using them in fiction.

So you can have them be distant, mythical archetypes but when they were that people complained that they didn't do anything/there was no reason to care.

Having them feature in fiction alleviates that but also makes them seem more "mortal"
 

Undead Scottsman

Well-known member
Citizen
Better to think of them like the greek gods (who were all up in everyone's business and were generally flawed and terrible and in-faught constantly) than mysterious old ones.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
The Covenant group worked for what they were at the time they were used.
 

Steevy Maximus

Well known pompous pontificator
Citizen
The 13 could use some paring down. At least a third of them are just scenery.
Depending on how you view Star Convoy, there are 8 confirmed for next year. Aside from Liege Maximo (who I think has more appeal beyond being a Prime), the biggest omissions are Amalgamous, Nexus, and Quintus (We just got a Vector Prime, who is a fine version and Hasbro might still be game for a repaint).
I think there is a valid argument, from a toy perspective, those three are terribly "vague" to integrate into a product line like Generations.

Liege Maximo was seen on Megatronus's packaging, but I wonder if we'll see "Age of the Primes" roll into the spring given changes in how retailers seem to want stuff distributed.

I'm holding hope that the 2026-7 Theme will be "Age of the Beasts" and give the 30th Anniversary of Beast Wars some love.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
the biggest omissions are Amalgamous, Nexus, and Quintus (We just got a Vector Prime, who is a fine version and Hasbro might still be game for a repaint).
I think there is a valid argument, from a toy perspective, those three are terribly "vague" to integrate into a product line like Generations.
We're getting Bruticus and Superion in AotP. I'd put money on moulds from each being remoulded/repainted into Nexus before AotP wraps up.
 

CoffeeHorse

Exhausted, but still standing.
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Greek or even Norse gods, both are deeply expanded on in a similar way, where they just feel like Mortals with a bit extra.

Or the Sumerian gods. Their powers even seem to be connected to physical macguffins that can be fought over.
 

Steevy Maximus

Well known pompous pontificator
Citizen
We're getting Bruticus and Superion in AotP. I'd put money on moulds from each being remoulded/repainted into Nexus before AotP wraps up.
That IS the question: Will AotP be a 12 month cycle, or 18? Is Hasbro shifting to a spring to spring cycle? Will Age of the Primes be the full "trilogy cycle" or will we see more distinction (Age of Beasts, Age of Chaos, Age of Hope, etc?
Stuff we don't have any information on at the moment.

I'm still not a fan of a potential Commander slot being taken up by Nexus, simply because I largely don't like any of the 13 being the originators for transforming to begin with.
I was thinking, and while it might take another "season", I thought up a couple of potential uses for the others I cited:
Quintus Prime- With his connection to the Quintessons and his artifact focused on manipulating biological life, I could see him being a "pretool" for Botanica. Mecha-creature with tentacles could be done pretty close to "flytrap plant creature with vines".
Amalgamous- I was baffled at first how you incorporate a "constantly changing" Transformer into the limitations of the toyline, then it hit me: It's been some 8 years since Sixshot made his appearance in Titans Return. A six changer would encompass the IDEA of the character, while also offering a solid foundation for several redecos/retools.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
I'm holding hope that the 2026-7 Theme will be "Age of the Beasts" and give the 30th Anniversary of Beast Wars some love.
Which will also be the 40th anniversary of TFTM and we all know Hasbro will certainly want to celebrate that, too.
 


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