Transformers: Age of the Primes toyline discussion || update: Prima, Red Alert

[LordGigaIce]

The AllSpark Almanac II, not Fun Pub.

There's some backstory there.
FunPub asked Hasbro if they could name the FFoD guys. Hasbro said yes. Then Jim Sorenson swept in and named them all in The AllSpark Almanac II, which Hasbro apparently rubber stamped without giving it a thorough read through.

FunPub protested and Hasbro just shrugged and said "eh it's already done " and told FP they had to use Jim's names.

There were a few former FP peeps that were actually peeved at Hasbro going with the Sunbow head for AotP, seeing it as Jim being rewarded for his skeevy behaviour.

 

[unluckiness]

Could be worse. At least it wasn’t Ask Vector Prime.

 

[Sabrblade]

Could be worse. At least it wasn’t Ask Vector Prime.

Weeeeeeell...

Spoiler

Q: Were the early Matrix bearers in FFOD 4 named?

A: Yes. The first narrator was named Primon, the Alpha Prime. Next was Prima who fought Sentinel Major. The third was named Prime Nova, or Nova Prime. He was followed by Guardian Prime. Next was Zeta Prime, and then Sentinel Prime. The last narrator was Optimus Prime.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

What names did Fun Pub have in mind? Did they ever say?

 

[GodSentinelOmega]

Indeed. It would be nice to know if possible.

 

[Sabrblade]

Me three. That was before my time as a BotCon-goer.

 

[Haywire]

There's some backstory there.
FunPub asked Hasbro if they could name the FFoD guys. Hasbro said yes. Then Jim Sorenson swept in and named them all in The AllSpark Almanac II, which Hasbro apparently rubbed stamped without giving it a thorough read through.

FunPub protested and Hasbro just shrugged and said "eh it's already done " and told FP they had to use Jim's names.

There were a few former FP peeps that were actually peeved at Hasbro going with the Sunbow head for AotP, seeing it as Jim being rewarded for his skeevy behaviour.

Was Jim actually aware that FunPub was planning to name the FFoD Bots? Like, he named them in the Almanac specifically to thumb his nose at the FunPub crew? Or was it another case like Ironfist where two separate groups simultaneously decided to use obscure underused characters, and Sorenson just happened to get his out first?

 

[LordGigaIce]

Was Jim actually aware that FunPub was planning to name the FFoD Bots? Like, he named them in the Almanac specifically to thumb his nose at the FunPub crew? Or was it another case like Ironfist where two separate groups simultaneously decided to use obscure underused characters, and Sorenson just happened to get his out first?

Jim worked with FP and would have known when Hasbro gave them the ok to name the FFoD guys. If he was working on The Allspark Almanac II when that permission was given he could have easily worked it in to beat FP to the punch.

I wanna be clear that I don't know that for sure, but I do know a few people involved in FP who had insider knowledge, and they all seem to be pretty annoyed at Jim in general for how it went down.

Granted I haven't heard Jim's side of the story but my admittedly brief interactions with him haven't exactly been... positive?

What names did Fun Pub have in mind? Did they ever say?

AFAIK they never got that far. At least not far enough to have any concrete plan. Hasbro passed permission down and then Jim worked his version into the Almanac and Hasbro just said " that's what it is, tough" and any plans FP had got scuttled.
I'm sure someone had some ideas but noting got that far along. I can try to ask around.

 

[lastmaximal]

Could be worse. At least it wasn’t Ask Vector Prime.

I mean, it was One Guy's Ask Vector Prime, loaded with "answers" on varying layers that then had people swept up in the rush of adding to the wiki.

I loved the actual Animated lore that those built, and fiercely admired how much nerdy crap he crammed in there, but soured very quickly on all the nerd fighting about what to do with Sideways, and the later fanon v fanon hoopla over these retronamed Primes.

 

[LordGigaIce]

I mean, it was One Guy's Ask Vector Prime, loaded with "answers" on varying layers that then had people swept up in the rush of adding to the wiki.

I loved the actual Animated lore that those built, and fiercely admired how much nerdy crap he crammed in there, but soured very quickly on all the nerd fighting about what to do with Sideways, and the later fanon v fanon hoopla over these retronamed Primes.

Funnily enough naming the FFoD Primes isn't the worst use of Jim's "canonization" efforts IMO. They're important characters, or should be at least, and probably should have been named back in the 80s.

And while I'm sympathetic to some of the FP peeps who may be annoyed at how they got those names, well they were going to be named anyway and FP likely would have been drawing from the same name pool anyway so....

My larger issue with Sorenson's work on AVP and The Allspark Almanac is that he was very clearly gaming the system to "canonize" his fanfic ideas as far as the Wiki was concerned.

Frankly? I think the importance of AVP and The Allspark Almanacs has been overblown, but they are official for better and worse so you can't really blame the brand team if they reference that kinda stuff.

Still, it doesn't make it less groan-worthy

 

[lastmaximal]

Should have been named, weren't, took it upon himself to do so. Just one of the many things he "gamed the system" to canonize. I don't recall all the others, so I can't really weigh in on what's least objectionable to worst, but it's all one soup to me.

I was mainly picking up on unluckiness' note and forwarding that it basically was indeed Ask Vector Prime if it were held hostage by one pen.

I mean i doubt I myself would have been able to resist the temptation, maybe, to sneak some references in there. Love a good easter egg, perhaps too much. But it's not hard to see why the fun of it got vented out of the room so quickly.

 

[LordGigaIce]

To me a lot of it was just... kind of pointless?
Take Hyperdrive. A late G1 figure that never got passed the concept art stage and only ever really got some art in G1 Skyquake's scope accessory.

There's a lot of interesting stuff we could learn about Hyperdrive. What was his planned deco? Was he really going to be his own figure or was he simply a mislabeled early draft of Thunderclash that got scaled back for budgetary reasons? If he was planned to be his own thing then... are there additional files on him that haven't seen the light of day? Truly interesting stuff.

But AVP canonizing the universal designation his single art appearance in Skyquake's scope belongs to is... just kind of mental masterbation? What's really added?

So much of AVP fell into that space for me. Big things that needed to be canonized, like the FFoD guys, is fun. Jim outwardly stating he was going to game the wiki's own system for what it considered "canon" on stuff that was clearly him jerking the chain was... less fun

 

[unluckiness]

Universal streams be like:

 

[lastmaximal]

Yeah, I think I've said as much but about Ask Vector Prime in general (as opposed to this specifically) in that other thread. I'll just shrug and drop it.

It'd be fun if Age of the Primes would have the thirteen, but also have more Primes than that, and make it part of what little lore it has that no one knows for sure. Mix it up by not having all the 13 have Prime in their name (to make room for even more out-of-left-field additions like members of Furman's Covenant group).

 

[Shadewing]

Give us Cybertron Soundwave update and then Logos Prime, or vice versa. Could always do a Selects Blaster as welll.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

I always heard Cybertron Soundwave was annoying to Transform. Was it really, or is it just that we hadn't encountered movie toys yet?

 

[unluckiness]

Didn’t have any trouble with it that i can recall. IIRC one of either the Hasbro or Takara runs had a widespread misassembly issue that prevents it from transforming as intended.

 

[lastmaximal]

I always heard Cybertron Soundwave was annoying to Transform. Was it really, or is it just that we hadn't encountered movie toys yet?

I think it was just one of those that was fiddly and needed to have some parts lined up just so, or in a non-obvious way, for the top of the altmode to form right. Some movie stuff would have bits like this, some Beast era stuff did too.

That was always the issue I had with mine, although that might be partly on me. (I don't THINK mine had that assembly error, which isn't ringing a bell.)

 

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

He'll probably be a vehicle if only to not step on Onyx's toes.

So he can roll over them instead?

The next version of the Thirteen with reinterpret them as members of a traveling circus troupe, with Prima as the ringmaster, Solus and Megatronus as a knife-throwing duo act, Nexus as a five-man team of acrobats, Micronus as a juggling clown, Onyx as the lion tamer, and Alpha Trion as the lion.

The next version of the 13 should all reinterpret them to reference Gobots, as the true progenitors of the Cybertronians!

 

[lastmaximal]

The 13th Prime should be "Eugene from Hey Arnold" levels of unlucky.