Transformers: Age of the Primes toyline discussion || update: Prima, Red Alert

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Yeah, it was glimpsed in the one page we got to look at from the Binder of Revelation that was published in thumbnail size in the Transformers Vault book. But, nothing ever came out of the idea in any Aligned media.
And now that I think about it, that Binder page said Optimus's "Primary Polarity" was "Primian" and his "Complementary Polarity" was "Alphanian", suggesting he was most directly descended from Prima and Alpha Trion.

Looking closer at this Binder page in my copy of the Vault book, also has a ton of early info that definitely does not match up with anything we got in the Aligned media, which tells me that Optimus being the reincarnation of the Thirteenth Prime was not originally planned to be a thing until later. This leads me to wonder if it really was something Alvarez came up with, or if was actually an idea conceived entirely by the Covenant book's author, Justina Robson. If the latter, then I could see her coming up with it and the Hasbro team at the time approving it because the Hasbro team that was around at the time of the book's release (December 2013) was the then-new team who didn't care about Aligned like the previous team did.
 
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lastmaximal

Administrator
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
Considering how the back page of the club newsletter for the last few years was utilized, Sorenson isn't the only party guilty of taking the opportunity to canonize their ideas.
He certainly wasn't. What was originally a cute marketing bit that gave us such gems as "yes, she is a girl" quickly and irreversibly turned into a cluster of people racing to out-"mom said I could stamp my idea as canon next" the others.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Looking closer at this Binder page in my copy of the Vault book, also has a ton of early info that definitely does not match up with anything we got in the Aligned media,
Here is a transcription of the whole page's text (had to use a magnifying glass on my copy of the book in order to read some of the tinier text):

Hasbrobible-OPrimedescription.jpg


III. HEROES AND VILLAINS


MAIN
CHARACTER PROFILE


OPTIMUS PRIME

NAME:
Orion Pax, Optimus Prime

TRANSFORMATION: Semi-Truck

PERSONALITY: Decisive, charismatic, compassionate, a true believer, optimistic, dedicated, slightly naive, too trusting

HISTORY: Originally known as Orion Pax, Optimus Prime united with Megatron during the original Decepticon uprising. Megatron trained Orion Pax before he was revealed to be not just an outspoken advocate of change, but a violent terrorist. Orion Pax allied with Megatron on the political scene but never in terrorist attacks. His belief in peace, however, set him opposed to his former friend when the High Council gave him the title of Optimus Prime, but not the Matrix of Leadership; like the Arthurian sword in the stone, he had to pull from the Core of Cybertron. Now called Optimus Prime, he was reluctantly forced to battle Megatron in the war, continued to their present day stranding on Earth.

SPECIAL ABILITIES: Total recall of all former Primes, Prime Sword

WEAPONS: Ion Cannon, energon weapon, sword, axe

COLORATION: red, blue

DISTINGUISHING FEATURES: The Matrix of Leadership

ALLIES AND ENEMIES: Leader of the Autobots, Friend of Prowl, Friend of Ultra Magnus, Nemesis of Megatron

HUMAN CONNECTION: Transformer Liaison of [New NEST Group], New Witwicky

PRIMARY POLARITY: Primian

COMPLEMENTARY POLARITY: Alphanian


Optimus Prime is the embodiment of the noble leader, putting the needs of others ahead of his own. His entire life is dictated by an internal code of ethics, and his powers are always bent towards ensuring the rights of "freedom for all sentient beings." He comes from humble beginnings and has followed the path of the hero to that of the sovereign, mastering himself and becoming the leader of the Autobots.

He is intensely loyal to his friends, but he is not afraid to speak his mind and back up his opinions. As leader of the Autobots he maintains an air of dignity and quiet contemplation, he does not let his guard down often. He believes that someone can always be redeemed, though they have to make their own choice to do so.

Beginning his life as Orion Pax, a data clerk in the Iacon Hall of Records, he had an innate love of history and a thirst for knowledge that served him well throughout the rest of his life. He sees the cycle of history, and how they are being repeated in the situations he encounters. He is always looking to learn something new from his experiences, and believes that the life experiences of every living being are valuable to observe.

Early on in life he connected with Megatron, seeing the nobility of his cause. Orion Pax worked from his position at the Hall of Records to place subversive propaganda for the Decepticons' cause, even arguing in its early days that the movement should call themselves Autobots, referencing the individual freedoms that they stood for. Megatron overruled him, as he was wont to do when he felt threatened by Orion Pax's measured words and quiet charisma.

Orion Pax was not yet confident in his own personal power, he threw himself completely into causes, but did not take a leadership role for himself. He often served as a shaman figure to Megatron, explaining and defending his actions and directives to those who found them unpleasant or obtuse, helping to strengthen Megatron's power and the force of his movement. Despite his commitment, he often differed with Megatron, and argued strongly with him about the use of violence and his desire to prevent collateral damage.

Orion Pax's support of Megatron reached its apex when he stood before the High Council of Cybertron and defended the ideals and the necessity of the Decepticon cause. He spoke eloquently, using the full strength of his passion and elocution in order to convince them. He proved himself in that moment as a leader, one who was more reasonable and diplomatic than Megatron. He was still unaware of his skill and it came as a major shock when the Council declared Orion Pax leader of Cybertron's forces, giving him the new name, Optimus Prime.

The Council of Cybertron believed in Optimus Prime, but convincing the newly christened Autobot forces, especially in the face of Megatron's full-fledged revolution, was another story. Optimus's insecurity undermined his early leadership.
 
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LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
So maybe Hasbro has it right.
I'd say so!

At some point, people need to stop caring about what's canon and focus on what's relevant.
Yeah I'll co-sign this.

I think about how ancient cultures treated their mythologies. There was a broad over-arching story, status quo, and cast of characters everyone agreed on, but different storytellers and sub-culture groups told their own versions of these stories, and they didn't always fit together neatly.

Students today get hung up on that but the people at the time didn't. Stories and characters evolve as the society that birthed them evolve, and it was sensical that maybe a different region did their own thing or if maybe a renowned poet had a new flourish to emphasize a point they thought needed to be emphasized in this or that story. Nobody in Ancient Greece was constructing a different universal stream to explain how sometimes Aphrodite is a fickle love goddess and sometimes she's a war goddess.

And this was with what was important religions to these people. Surely we can stand to be as flexible as they were with our robot stories. It's not even a religion (even if it feels like it at times 😛)
 

NovaSaber

Well-known member
Citizen
Considering how the back page of the club newsletter for the last few years was utilized, Sorenson isn't the only party guilty of taking the opportunity to canonize their ideas.
I'd even say that giving English names to the Micron Booster Mini-Cons and then the wiki treating something so obscure as the "real" names over the toy names was more annoying than anything the Allspark Almanac did.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
Looking closer at this Binder page in my copy of the Vault book, also has a ton of early info that definitely does not match up with anything we got in the Aligned media, which tells me that Optimus being the reincarnation of the Thirteenth Prime was not originally planned to be a thing until later.
Yeah I remembered seeing that bit about Optimus being part of Prima and A3's lineages and getting a bit confused when I found out Optimus was the Thirteenth.

I think what happened is kind of mundane.
If you look at the Thirteen back when the list was "canonized" just over half were established characters. Prima, Liege Maximo, The Fallen, Alpha Trion, Vector Prime, Nexus Prime. Everyone else was an OC created to fill out the list.
So I think that when they were finalizing the list they were straining for ideas after six new characters and couldn't come up with a satisfying Thirteenth. They could have adopted one of the "Thirteen-adjacent" figures like one of the Covenant or Logos Prime, but they decided they needed someone really important for the role. Optimus would have seen like a swerve yet one that was sufficiently "epic" (the Aligned continuity was all about epicness for epicness' sake...) and they ran with it.

I'd even say that giving English names to the Micron Booster Mini-Cons and then the wiki treating something so obscure as the "real" names over the toy names was more annoying than anything the Allspark Almanac did.
To each their own. I think The Allspark Almanacs getting info stuff outside of Animated just to canonize something was eye roll worthy at the very least.
 

Ookalf

New member
Citizen
I'd even say that giving English names to the Micron Booster Mini-Cons and then the wiki treating something so obscure as the "real" names over the toy names was more annoying than anything the Allspark Almanac did.
See also, the time he spent like a week on indulging questions that amounted to, "Dear Vector Prime, please rename these Chinese characters so I can get that horrible foreign rubbish off the wiki"...
 

Agent X

Kreon Bastard
Citizen
I'd even say that giving English names to the Micron Booster Mini-Cons and then the wiki treating something so obscure as the "real" names over the toy names was more annoying than anything the Allspark Almanac did.
Inl think it would have gone over better if those Microns got a Western release, like through the club itself.

With no easily available toys for fans to buy...yeah.
 

lastmaximal

Administrator
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
Idk. That doesn't really take away the "message board thread about renaming characters" vibe to it all. Like, they HAVE names, albeit ones that came from a non-Western context, let that be that.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
IIRC, Micron Booster didn't include any bios for its Mini-Cons, so I don't see the harm in the Greg Sepelak and Trent Troop coming up with and giving bios to those bio-less characters.

In fact, I never saw the harm in their giving them new English names in contrast to their Japanese names, either. This was back when Hasbro was firmly in that era of "Takara has their own names that they use for the Japanese market, and we have our own names that we stick to for the English market." The Mini-Con bios were just following suit with what Hasbro was doing at the time.

Like, getting upset that the club created new English names for the Micron Booster Mini-Cons, or AVP creating English names for the Chinese MMO characters, is like getting mad that Hasbro changed all the names of the Car Robots characters when they localized that series into English.

I bet the cast majority on here can't even pronounce any of the Chinese MMO character's names. Heck, most can't even pronounce Nezha's name correctly and his name's simple compared to the likes of Xīngchén Mànyóuzhě or Xīngyún Sīlièzhě.
 
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lastmaximal

Administrator
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
Translation is a thing that exists. I don't mind the names that essentially streamline the translations (Heavy Armor Vanguard becoming Aeegis Vanguard).

And hell, prior to the renaming, the wiki was running perfectly fine calling assorted Microns Filter, Trigger, Saber, and more. If they get renamed when Hasbro brings them over (as did Deego, Leaf, Discharge and more) as Agent X suggested, whatever. But fans on an officialized fan sandbox going at it so they could update their fancyclopedia is a little bleh.

I know, the distinction between "Hasbro had the internal team/hired writers come up with names" and "fans, who are basically also hired writers, came up with names and bios" is thin and blurry. You're free to not recognize it, but we'll agree to disagree.

I didn't like it when Ben Yee (also a definite fan hired to write in an official capacity) started making changes to existing names and bios for the BW Sourcebook. To me this is the same "I know better" energy.

I mean, no losing sleep over this, of course, but it's a clear "yeah, I'll pass on that".
 
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LBD "Nytetrayn"

Broke the Matrix
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
So maybe Hasbro has it right.

I think the only "wrong" way is to act like you're going to do a thing, then not commit to it. Just half-assing it.

It's like with some video games that drive me crazy. You have story-rich games. You have games with no story whatsoever.

But the ones that drive me nuts -- and yes, I do have a lot of experience with this -- are the ones where they weave these elaborate tales, have all this lore and detail and other stuff, yet still don't give any consideration to how it relates and works with anything else.

Don't try to have it both ways.


Any combiner will probably be related to Nexus Prime
Beasts will probably be related to Onyx

Though it will be interesting if they don't be that hardline with them.

Would that mean that beast combiners came about when Nexus and Onyx got... cozy?
 

Blot

Well-known member
Citizen
I'd even say that giving English names to the Micron Booster Mini-Cons and then the wiki treating something so obscure as the "real" names over the toy names was more annoying than anything the Allspark Almanac did.
I think the Almanac gets people leery because it does because a combination of the already mentioned things. The Wiki may have its own set of logic and rules people don't agree with, but it's an island unto itself until people involved with it had the ability to cut out the middleman and get things changed for said wiki. People see the Collector's Club newsletter going "I'm the bigger nerd, here's some ciphers of a foreign release you never heard about but I gave them brand new names and personalities!" is eye-rolling but expected of it, and then the wiki going "this is the only thing that matters now" as a wiki problem.

But when you take a book explicitly about one continuity and use it as a blank check to start doing your retcons to others and you yourself know the idea would have been shut down by the higher ups so fast you make the entire thing coded secret messages as the only way to get it out there. Because they had to PotP Jazz it, it immediately sets off the red flags to people.

Also, as stated, coded secret messages to retcon every other Transformers show or comic has nothing to do with what the book is about.
 


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