Palworld! Where Ark meets pokemon.

[wonko the sane?]

I'm going to be alternating between palworld and enshrouded until the 22nd of next month when I loop in pacific drive. I've got a type, and I know what I like. Not going to have any problem hitting my break even point on any of these games.

 

[Spin-Out]

Probably because it would all just be an expensive coat of paint on the same game they've been playing since the mid-'90s and have gotten thoroughly tired of, even if they can't bring themselves to admit it. Something I realized recently is that the only reason "retro revival" games do so well is because they are revivals. We wouldn't be so into boomer shooters if the industry had been pumping out an endless stream of them ever since 1993. We'd get tired of Metroid instead of eagerly looking forward to the next one if it were an annual franchise like Call of Duty.

If I could defend it on any grounds, I'd suggest that it's not actually meant to be played by the same people installment after installment, but instead meant to be bought for your kids to play and then grow out of, then get the next one for the next kid who's two years younger when they're the ideal age for it. Like a cartoon that stays in reruns forever because there's a new batch of eight-year-olds every year.

pokemon could and should be more than that, tbh. there's no reason it can't have the same level of prestige as other nintendo franchise aside from "TPC cares more about money than anything else and is perfectly okay ******* over the devs they basically stole the franchise from until the franchise reaches a breaking point, while letting shithead 'fans' blame and harass the devs."

 

[wonko the sane?]

Okay, so to address the ambiguity around palworlds legality.

Someone made an actual pokemon mod for palworld; And was struck with an official C&D from gamefreaks inside 24 hours. And there's your answer.

 

[Spin-Out]

TPC, you mean. Game Freak aren't Pokemon's primary copyright owners even though they should be the primary copyright owners and not TPC

 

[ZakuConvoy]

Let's explain EVERY SINGLE Pal! (Spoilers, probably? Also, SOME complaining about similarities to Pokemon, but not as much as you might expect. And he doesn't get into all the variants.)

Here's a list with all the variants (I think?):

List of All Pals in the Paldeck (September 2024) | Palworld｜Game8

This is a list of all 139 Pals that appear in the Paldeck in Palworld. Read on to see a list of all Pals in the Paldeck, their elements, Work Suitability, and how to catch Pals in Palworld.

game8.co

 

[wonko the sane?]

Did you all know there's a survival journal in the game, AND it fully explains the type matching?

I did not, and it's actually very helpful.

 

[wonko the sane?]

Alright, so, the game comes with a LOT of customization options under settings. I don't mean display or sound or such, I mean world settings: like pal catch rates, spawn rates, day and night cycle length.

Turns out: the wandering human groups are treated as pals when it comes to spawning. So if you choose to boost world wide pal spawning by two or three times... you will also see 2-3 times the number of humans in those wandering war groups.

Doesn't seem to affect raid spawns though. It's been pretty stable at 8 (for me, anyway.) before and after my changing the settings.

 

[wonko the sane?]

So I'm standing on the roof of my factory; It's like 3 wall sections tall, so I can see over the palisade wall. I'm just standing there, holding X, working on my blue pistol. Just outside my base walls, I can see two cativas (Lv3, and Lv4.) just absolutely hauling ass across the landscape.

I don't need two thumbs to hold X, and I can pan around the landscape just fine while working, so I follow them. They were in a mad hurry to go pick a fight with an Lv11 eikthyrdeer.

Anywho: can't see the fight itself, cause they go and do it behind the small cliff... hill thing that I built my base near. I do see like two big flashes of light, and the eikthyrdeer just kinda wander out the other side.

So that was a thing. The random combat outside of your perview is just... so welcome sometimes.

 

[wonko the sane?]

So nintendo finally sued... Not over designs, but because of the act of throwing a ball to capture monters...

Gonna be fun to watch.

 

[Tm_Silverclaw]

Also, I'm putting this here cause I'm tired of seeing people go "Nintendo is going after poor indies!"

Pocket Pair is not Indie. It's owned by the same guy that owns Coincheck, a crypto company in japan. It's the equivalent of Musk opening a 5 employee store and calling it a "Small business"

Second, Pocket Pair has lied in stating that they don't know what patents the allegedly infringed upon.

Japanese laws.

What happens after the defendant is served with the complaint?

A defendant who is served with a complaint is required to submit an answer. In their answer, the defendant must admit or deny the facts contained in the complaint and assert any defenses, as well as provide the factual and legal bases and documentary evidence in support of their answer.

An Overview of Civil Litigation in Japan | KOJIMA LAW OFFICES

Which means they know what patents they allegedly infringed upon.

 

[wonko the sane?]

Apparently, the patents they've infringed upon were only filed by nintendo in the last few weeks? So it's entirely possible that pocketpair doesn't know what they've infringed on. It also seems like the core mechanics nintendo is trying to claim patent to will affect any game where you can throw a round thing, or ride a creature. This is going to have some long standing effects on the games industry one way or another...

 

[Tm_Silverclaw]

We actually have no clue which patents have been infringed, as we do not yet *that I have found* Random youtuber's going on "IT MUST BE THIS!!! BECAUSE NINTENDO IS EVIL TO POCKET PAIR! POOOR CRYPTO BROOOOO!" have not actually shown any proof.

And yes.. I actually COULD believe it is "Round ball" notice NO OTHER monster taming game uses a spehere. Just like almost no other game besides Monster Rancher uses the discs.

Also, one of the "Newly patented so can't count!" cases I saw *round sphere shaking* was actually a renewal, not a new patent.


And again. Pocket Pair CAN'T not know what patents were allegedly infringed on. The patents were in the files they were served. They are literally going "Uh uh!!!!! We don't know!" when they have a list patents, because AS I PUT ABOVE, they are expected to submit an answer.

This is a lot like the Bayonetta voice actor incident, people leaped to her side, only to find out they were effectively being grifted.

 

[wonko the sane?]

We'll know more after pocketpair responds. I honestly can't find proper first party information right now. Lots of hyperbole and whining, but the common thread seems to be a fair bit of outrage that nintendo would try to patent (or maybe enforce a patent?) a basic game mechanic that's been used for decades now.

 

[Tm_Silverclaw]

Funny that same people going on "Patents about gameplay mechanics are evil!!!!" are... all quiet about bungie announcing new Gameplay mechanic Patent.

Also, these same people would be cheering Cryptobro...er.. sorry Pocket Pair for suing Nintendo if Nintendo infringed on one of Pocket Pair's patents. *and don't think they don't have some*

And yes, Takuro Mizobe is a Cryptobro, he started Coincheck in Japan, a crypto company that has made over 7 billion yen.

And at least one Japanese indie has flat out said Pocket Pair doesn't represent him, and will go back to being a Doujin. And that's Zun the creator of Touhou

 

[ZakuConvoy]

Honestly? I wouldn't be surprised if there's some bits of code directly lifted from the Pokemon games in Palworld. We've all seen the models. And even the way certain Pals "float" and "bounce" and move feel almost identical to certain other Pokemon. Even if the models are altered beyond recognition, I'm not so sure the "movement data" is altered enough to say the same.

The thing is, video game code is usually protected by COPYRIGHT law not patent law, as I understand it. So, unless the Palworld developers were foolish enough to steal a whole game engine or emulated the Switch or something out of Pokemon's code, I doubt that's it.

Unless Japanese laws are different, and patents cover video game code protection over there. I really wouldn't know.

If Nintendo is actually suing them over the very CONCEPT of throwing a item to catch a monster....*SIGH*...then I guess I have no choice than to be on Palworld's side. Grudgingly. That cannot be allowed to be made the standard. That's too broad of a concept to be kept by one company, and it would have DISASTROUS consequences on the entire video game industry if it became widely adopted. Palworld feels like it's guilty of some crimes, but that shouldn't be one of them.

So, I'm leaning toward being on Nintendo's side in this case. At least until we learn what, exactly, they're suing them for. Because, it definitely feels like Palworld is guilty of doing SOMETHING shady with the designs of it's Pals. I'm not a programmer, but, again, it definitely feels like assets were lifted. Something's up. But, I don't want to set a precedent that would all but destroy the gaming industry, either.

 

[Dvandom]

A friend of mine who is not a patent attorney but pays attention to such things suspects that Nintento's patent might be broad enough that World of Warcraft would be violating it. The actual limits of the patent would most likely not be fully determined until the lawsuits are done with, and defined by which lawsuits get pursued and won.

---Dave

 

[Tm_Silverclaw]

And as someone who actually worked on plenty of legal documents *including patent filings* for 20+ years, it could also be as niche as "thrown sphere shakes three times and chimes to confirm a catch."

 

[wonko the sane?]

If palworld lifted code from nintendo, there would have been a lawsuit long before the game launched.

Edit: could we maybe skip the disdain for the title itself and the company that owns it and focus on the lawsuit whose precedent could allow nintendo to sue every game title ever for violating their patents on running, jumping, riding and throwing?

 

[Tm_Silverclaw]

If palworld lifted code from nintendo, there would have been a lawsuit long before the game launched.

Edit: could we maybe skip the disdain for the title itself and the company that owns it and focus on the lawsuit whose precedent could allow nintendo to sue every game title ever for violating their patents on running, jumping, riding and throwing?

And there it is...

No point discussing this further. You are to the point of "NINTENDO IS COMING FOR MY CAT! THEY HATE MY SOUL!!!! THEY KICKED MY MOM!"

If you have a problem with gameplay patents. You better be damn pissed at Sony, MS, Bungie, Sega, Bandai, Capcom.


You have fallen for a Grift from a Grifter.

 

[wonko the sane?]

Did you read the patents the lawsuit is based on? They're so vague they literally describe MOVEMENT in games.

Here's one, look:

Patent number: 10717008
Abstract: An example of an information processing system manages a character-associated parameter associated with each of a plurality of character objects, and a player-associated parameter associated with a player. Further, the information processing system stores an appearance condition associated with each of the plurality of character objects. The information processing system specifies at least one target character object among the plurality of character objects. When the player-associated parameter and the character-associated parameter associated with a target character object satisfy the appearance condition associated with the target character object, the information processing system permits the target character object to appear in a predetermined region in a virtual space.
Type: Grant
Filed: October 18, 2018
Date of Patent: July 21, 2020
Assignees: Nintendo Co., Ltd., DeNa Co., Ltd.
Inventors: Kazuyoshi Sensui, Masahiro Nitta, Yasuharu Ohta, Mai Yamamoto, Junpei Horita, Ken Nakatani, Tatsuya Wakasa, Yurie Tokutake

Gamesradar did an article about it.

IP expert says Nintendo probably doesn't own patents strong enough to "prevent Pocketpair from making Palworld," and this "may boil down to nothing but bullying"

The House of Mario can be a scary place

www.gamesradar.com

This is bad precedent FOR GAMING. If it works: it'll stifle development and innovation and functionally force the entire industry to bow to one corporation regardless of genre for fundamental game mechanics, like moving, acting and combat. That's where I am right now, and until proven wrong. You've accused a lot, but not proven anything.