Transformers: Age of the Primes toyline discussion 10/27 Update: First look at Megatronus the Fallen

[Exatron]

The Rodimus hate extended all the way as late as 2009, as seen in how he's portrayed in this video from back then:

As late as 2009? Have we already forgotten? I mean, I can't say I'd blame anyone who really wants to block it out, but I think it's one of those things that must never be forgotten, lest we allow history to repeat itself. Already way too much of that happening.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

I'd like to forget. It is really embarrassing that anyone at IDW thought that Deviations issue needed to happen.

 

[lastmaximal]

I, a longtime Hot Rod/Imus fanboy, have taken too long to respond to this because of... (Wild Gesticulation) EVERYTHING.

But here goes.

I largely concur with LordGigaIce's observations. I've long been sick of the anti-Hot Rod pushback, which tends to be loudest and dumbest from people who never grew up beyond their 80s childhoods (there are some for whom the most cited part of an old toku show is when one of the heroines would show her undies in a high kick). Like, whether Hot Rod is even directly mentioned or not, the One Joke kicks in. This has endured through the decades, because again, these people peaked a long damn time ago and are forever trying toretend it's still a plateau and not a puddle.

But, y'know. What do you expect.

I do remember a lot more sympathy and more complex reading of Hot Rod and the Rodimus era coming in the quieter post G1 years, when more reflections and metadiecourse on the shows and characters were the norm. This has since been reflected in more recent writing, with Furman continuing to flesh out Hot Rod and Roberts leaning into the character's flash (almost like the Lego Batman movie basically weaponized all the Batman memes).

But I have also encountered... Not quite the Poochie situation, certainly not that metaphor. But just... Apathy, and a tendency to assume by default that Rodimus Prime must've sucked, from non-fans. (Most recently when OSW Review compared Dale Torborg's WCW ring gear to Rodimus Prime, whom they did not recognize and just guessed as "a shit Optimus Prime?") I've never encountered the "he was a boardroom creation made to appeal to kids" angle, which seems like a more contemporarily-cynical approach of reading-into something.

But I have encountered assumptions that he MUST have sucked, because, well, he was such a momentary experiment that was yanked offstage incredibly quickly and never substantially foregrounded again for the next 30 years.

This much I can understand, and I can't begrudge-- he HAS been treated like this in the franchise's history. Especially in the west, where it's not so much a succession of Autobot/Cybertron leaders as Japan had; it's just been "Optimus died, Rodimus showed up, then they got rid of him and put Optimus back and then never changed back, so he must have sucked. I [a younger non-fan] have never even heard of him." And there's little that would shake that; I mean, the dude is very much Of His Era aesthetically, and even now that teal and pink are currently cool again and the 80s/90s nostalgia aesthetic is still a bit en vogue, a bright maroon car covered in loud flames and ostentatious chrome outgrowths is a hard sell. And the character is far from G1 Optimus' Big Good Robot Dad, instead being Co-Regional Manager Jim Halpert at best without the loving family and with 120% more moping.

So while I'll always dismiss "wah he killed Optimus" whinging, I actually bedgrudgingly get non-fan out-of-context apathy.

But he's still my guy.

It's weird, really. I WAS one if those traumatized by all the death (ffs, Prowl's burning-from-the-inside) and the loss if Optimus Prime especially. But the narrative... worked for me, as I was at just the right age to identify directly with characters designed for me to identify with. I rooted for him, wanted to see him prove himself, wanted him to make up for getting Prime killed. And that design, boy, you had to be there, and I was there. I was there for it and always will be.

Growing older I only related to the character more. It's a good character arc really, going from ambitious kid with more dreams than plans, to suddenly being thrust onto a higher level, to struggling with being enough because you're not the everything to everyone your parents and other mentors were, you're just you doing your best. Your pals are Han Solo and his girlfriend and a goofy fast-talker and a dude who watches way too much TV and the old guy and a mentor who tolerates but doesn't get you, and you just want to be done with work and don't want to ruin things for those who count on you.

His tenure as Prime I mostly saw in bits from the cartoon, but I liked what little comic stuff I came across later. Here was a complex leader who believably chafed at the more politically and procedurally demanding schtick of his era, all while carrying the insecurity that came with the circumstances of HOW he became leader. But just as this was being steered and navigated, well, never mind that, we can bring Optimus back now.

I'm glad to have seen more of him in recent years, reinterpreted as an ancient exile leader in Energon (idk what the dub did with THAT later on), showing a momentary flash of coolness and leadership in Animated, being a key weirdo fixture in IDW (not wild about Roberts' concept sometimes, but I love the flashes of depth and complexity he gets, and I will ALWAYS love that this too-cool-for-school himbo dbag asked for a group hug so he could thank his squad for traveling with him) and palling around with fellow kid appeal bois in Cyberverse.

I hope there's always a place for him somehow, even as his turbo-revving ways have been repurposed for Young Optimus and/or Bumblebee.

 

[Sabrblade]

I'd like to forget. It is really embarrassing that anyone at IDW thought that Deviations issue needed to happen.

Yeah, there were a million other ways to do that concept of "What if Optimus survived TFTM?" without needlessly bashing Hot Rod at the same time.

It would have been far more creative for Deviations (or, hey, even for TFTM itself!) to have simply had Optimus retire from Autobot leadership once Hot Rod was revealed to be the true chosen bearer of the Matrix, and become Rodimus's second-in-command and chief advisor.

The Diaclone toy that would become Ultra Magnus could have even instead been sold as an upgraded armored version of Optimus, representing the form he took on after stepping down to become Rodimus's sub-commander (maybe named "Optimus Magnus" since Rodimus would be the new Prime). While this would have removed the new character of Ultra Magnus from the equation, the new toy would have still been sold (preferably in its original, more-Optimus-like Diaclone colors) in stores at the time. It also would have paralleled Megatron getting a new upgraded toy of his own as Galvatron (and kinda Hot Rod upgrading to Rodimus).

Like, start the movie as normal, up until the attack on Autobot City, where instead of Ultra Magnus it is now either Springer or Blaster who is in charge and gives the other Autobots the orders that Magnus gives in the movie proper. Then, when Optimus arrives, after saying his "No matter the cost," line, he would turn to the others exiting the shuttle and ask if his new armor is ready to go. They would give it to him as a new trailer, and he would say, "Then let's transform..." (transforming to truck mode, his new trailer would attach to him) "... and roll out!" Cue the Stan Bush song.

Optimus drives through the city, guns blazing from the missile pods on his new trailer, blasting Decepticons left and right as he transforms, leaps into the air, and continues to blast his way to Megatron. The two leaders then have their iconic fight, but with Optimus revealing to Megatron his brand-new battle armor, showing Megatron that he means business this time. When Hot Rod interferes, however, he does not grapple with Megatron, but instead trips and winds up landing between the two, inadvertently taking Megatron's gunshot meant for Optimus. Megatron laughs maniacally at this unexpected direct hit of his. Enraged at Megatron shooting Hot Rod in the chest, Optimus pummels Megatron like he did in the movie, sending the Decepticons into retreat. However, Optimus still took some heavy damage, and he collapses as he tries to reach for the fallen Hot Rod.

Instead of a death scene for Optimus, we get a scene of both him and Hot Rod on repair beds, both being worked on by Perceptor. Optimus tells Hot Rod that what he did was very brave, with Optimus owing Hot Rod his life (so instead "Hot Rod killed Optimus!", it would be "Hot Rod saved Optimus"), but also very foolish. Hot Rod would say something like "I guess I have my own way of doing things." As Optimus moves a little closer to Hot Rod, a light would begin to glow through a blast hole in Optimus's chest, to which Hot Rod inquires about. Optimus opens his chest and shows him the Matrix, telling him about the prophecy of one destined to use it to light their darkest hour. Optimus momentarily stirs from the pain of his injuries, and accidentally drops the Matrix. Hot Rod reaches for it and catches it, having his glowing moment that foreshadows what is to come later, and gives it back to Optimus, who places it back inside his chest.

When the Decepticons later attacked Autobot City again, Optimus and Hot Rod are back to working order, and Optimus basically takes the role of Ultra Magnus from here on out, with Hot Rod, Kup, and the Dinobots going in one shuttle while Optimus goes with the other Autobots in the other. Later, when Springer goes "Kup and Hot Rod just bought it!", Magnus's original line of "I can't deal with that now!" would be for Optimus just a mournful "NO!" By the time of the battle on Junkion where Magnus tried and failed to open the Matrix, it would be Optimus in his new armor who tries and fails to open it. As Galvatron corners Optimus, he would hearken back their previous battle by saying, "That armor won't save you this time, Prime." And just before getting blasted to pieces like Magnus did, Optimus would speak some final words to Galvatron, something like "You may finish me here today, Galvatron, but there is only one who can use the Matrix!" hinting that he knows (or at least suspects) "something".

With Optimus getting destroyed at this point, we still get an Optimus death, but halfway through the movie instead of toward the beginning. And since it's Optimus rather than new-character Ultra Magnus, the sense of hopelessness is kicked up further when Springer and the others find his remains. But, also just like Magnus, the Junkions would rebuild him, giving his body a new coat of blue and black paint; this would be how he gets the color scheme of the Diaclone Powered Convoy cab. The rest of the movie then plays out with Optimus in the role of Ultra Magnus.

During Hot Rod's confrontation with Galvatron, instead of the "First Prime, then Ultra Magnus, and now you!" line, Galvatron would belittle Hot Rod, saying something like, "Optimus couldn't keep the Matrix from me, what makes you think you can?!" to which Hot rod would retort, "I do things my own way!" calling back to what he said to Optimus back in the repair bed scene. And after Hot Rod reveals himself to the others as Rodimus Prime, right after Kup says "I knew you had potential, lad," Optimus would say something like "So did I, Kup. So did I."

Also, when Rodimus announces "Autobots, transform and roll out!", that line would now be a callback to when Optimus said it at the beginning of the movie. Has anyone ever noticed that Optimus never says that most famous line of his at all in the entire movie? Only Rodimus ever says. Here, with Optimus saying it first at the beginning and Rodimus now echoing it at the end, it becomes more parallel.

The movie would end the same, with Rodimus giving his speech, and Optimus now standing beside and slightly behind him, showing his full endorsement of the new Autobot leader. As for Robert Stack, either he would simply be absent from the film, or he could play Springer, with Neil Ross still voicing him in season 3 and 4 (Springer and Magnus's voices always sounded similar to me in the movie). And Peter Cullen gets to keep his paycheck.

 

[Shadewing]

I had a similar idea the other day, but instead the movie would largely play out the same, with the same Name idea idea except that Prime's injuries don;t kill him, but are still gravely serious, and that need to get back to Cybertron/The Moonbases asap to get him proper medical attention. This still largely removes Prime for the movie for Hot Rod to shine, would slightly change their reason for leaving Earth. Optimus passes on the Metrix to someone, just in cases he doesn't make it. The armor would be revealed and basically be new life support armor created to help him heal. I would probably keep the idea of Vehicle to Armored Robot in the cartoon, with him having to stay in it until he's fully healed. Then if we still got PM Prime, that could be him after he's been fully healed.