Anti-Semitism
- Thread starter Teufel
- Start date
Prominent alt-righter is massive antisemite shock.
So he's just another alt-right loser. I'm glad he doesn't contribute anything meaningful to our world.
I'm sure the whole lot of them would make excellent fertilizer, what with being so full of jive.
Because dem Jews have been secretly ruling ze world for millennia. They got their fingers in everything, they control the money. Everyone knows Muslims are dangerous so everyone is cautious of them anyways, and they're never being let anywhere near the higher levels of power in Western countries as a result. Jews, on the other hand? They're sneaky, and too many people get fooled by them simply by them not being Muslims.
Oh wait, that was the Western version.
Here's the version for the Islamic world:
Dem Jews secretly control all the Western nations. Israel is the true ruler of the non-Muslim world, and therefore a threat.
It's not the country, but rather the fact that in order to create Israel, parts of Palestine were "illegally" given to make it, causing the wasteful and preventable deaths of a great many people.
"Parts" of Palestine might be putting it lightly considering there ceased to be a country named Palestine on the globe the day Israel was founded and it has remained that way ever since.
It's the kind of thing that could really only have happened exactly when it did: the world was on one hand finally aware of just how badly the problem of antisemitism in Europe needed to be dealt with, and on the other hand not quite done with the whole "colonialism" thing. So, hey, should we, like, try to protect Europe's Jewish population against further persecution from governments and racist individuals alike? Nah, let's just steal some country halfway around the world, declare it to be a new Jewish ethnostate, and tell anyone who's sick of being shat on to move there. It's cool because they used to live there almost 2000 years ago, so really it's where they belong, you know?
It's the kind of thing that could really only have happened exactly when it did: the world was on one hand finally aware of just how badly the problem of antisemitism in Europe needed to be dealt with, and on the other hand not quite done with the whole "colonialism" thing. So, hey, should we, like, try to protect Europe's Jewish population against further persecution from governments and racist individuals alike? Nah, let's just steal some country halfway around the world, declare it to be a new Jewish ethnostate, and tell anyone who's sick of being shat on to move there. It's cool because they used to live there almost 2000 years ago, so really it's where they belong, you know?
There was never a "country" of Palestine, and the recreation of Israel in 1948 was probably the most legally up-and-up of that of any country (30+ years of international law behind it), in addition to being pretty much the greatest victory for decolonization of all time.
As for Wheels' question - here's the answer:
The psychic wages of whiteness, Middle East edition, demanded that the Jews be a helpless and subservient victim population, remaining as such through 1,000+ years of constant persecution and massacres. Any advances to the Jews was an intolerable challenge to the social hierarchy. The recreation of Israel produced a violent reactionary backlash as have so many other advances in social rights for designated undergroups you can all think of. If Israel had the exact same military history but was run by Egyptians or Turks, you would never have heard of it.
Let's take a closer look at the history of Khamenei's country, Iran.
How did Israel, formed 1948, cause the antisemitic massacre in Mashhad, Iran, in 1839?
en.m.wikipedia.org
How did Israel, formed 1948, cause the antisemitic massacre in Shiraz, Iran, in 1910?
en.m.wikipedia.org
How did Israel, formed 1948, cause any of this in Isfahan, Iran, in the 1500s?
How did Israel, formed 1948, cause these conditions all throughout Iran in the 1850s? From the Shiraz link above:
Khamenei's entire identity and sense of social normalcy is based on the Jew being inferior, disgusting, and killable. Now that they got uppity, he is clinging to bitterness.
As for Wheels' question - here's the answer:
Lyndon Johnson said:
The psychic wages of whiteness, Middle East edition, demanded that the Jews be a helpless and subservient victim population, remaining as such through 1,000+ years of constant persecution and massacres. Any advances to the Jews was an intolerable challenge to the social hierarchy. The recreation of Israel produced a violent reactionary backlash as have so many other advances in social rights for designated undergroups you can all think of. If Israel had the exact same military history but was run by Egyptians or Turks, you would never have heard of it.
Let's take a closer look at the history of Khamenei's country, Iran.
How did Israel, formed 1948, cause the antisemitic massacre in Mashhad, Iran, in 1839?
Allahdad - Wikipedia
How did Israel, formed 1948, cause the antisemitic massacre in Shiraz, Iran, in 1910?
Shiraz pogrom - Wikipedia
How did Israel, formed 1948, cause any of this in Isfahan, Iran, in the 1500s?
How did Israel, formed 1948, cause these conditions all throughout Iran in the 1850s? From the Shiraz link above:
Khamenei's entire identity and sense of social normalcy is based on the Jew being inferior, disgusting, and killable. Now that they got uppity, he is clinging to bitterness.
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When a fascist dictator says "I want to kill the Jews because of Israel," the correct response is emphatically not "Huh, Israel must have done something bad to deserve that!"
A random video about 1920s Palestine is quite offtopic concerning the previous many centuries of murderous antisemitism from Iran described above. And that would be the case even if it weren't from the state-owned propaganda outlet of the repressive fundie monarchy in Qatar, where no Jews live and the government schoolbooks say Judaism is evil and perverted.
A random video about 1920s Palestine is quite offtopic concerning the previous many centuries of murderous antisemitism from Iran described above. And that would be the case even if it weren't from the state-owned propaganda outlet of the repressive fundie monarchy in Qatar, where no Jews live and the government schoolbooks say Judaism is evil and perverted.
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The discussion of Israel's occupation of Palestine is not "anti_semetic" and neither is it justification for Hitler's (or anyone's) anti-semitic views.
Furthermore, all media sources have a checkered history, and Al Jazeera is no exception. Regardless, it still stands as a respected news outlet:
- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jazeera
(This includes a rather thorough section on controversies enacted and suffered by the news outlet)
It's "media bias" has been measured here:
Please do not confuse anti-Israeli commentary with anti-semetiism; the two are not the same (Edit: - And my inclusion of this topic was in response to another related post by another user and was not done so with "whataboutism" in mind). Furthermore, it would be wise to not dismiss valid sources without fully researching it prior.
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PrimalxConvoy said:
Donald Trump has strongly denied he is racist, and has condemned racism. He says he is just criticizing immigration policy.
J.K. Rowling certainly doesn't say she's transphobic. Rather, she's criticizing academic policies and grammar policy.
Do you believe them?
Would you warn Latinos or transgender people about how they just keep falsely mixing up criticism with hate?
I'm Jewish and you're not. You really should not assume you are better at recognizing antisemitism than I am. Many purported "criticisms" are hugely, dangerously antisemitic, among them just for a start:
* Jews don't belong in Israel / the Middle East because they're white European colonizers
* There was peace and coexistence in Palestine / the Middle East before Jewish aliens ruined it
* Jews / Israel control the media / economy / politics / the weather / the world
* Jews lie about threats facing them and falsely accuse innocent people all the time
You should take Jewish people seriously when we talk about our history and the threats facing us. It is the bare minimum ask.
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I am all in favor of Israel's existence (denying it at this point would mean completely erasing the past 74 years of history, which is patently absurd and comparable to Russia denying Ukraine's independence or China denying Taiwan's).
I'm also generally in favor of Israel defending itself against both internal and external threats.
I'm also fully aware of many "criticisms" of Israel being instances of thinly-veiled anti-semitism.
I'm also fully aware that many groups that oppose Israel, such as the Hamas, are fully-blown terrorist organizations that are generally worse than anything Israel has ever done.
I still disagree with many decisions by the Israelian government, while making it clear that it's the government whose decisions I disagree with, not the Israelian people or "the Jews" in general.
I'm also generally in favor of Israel defending itself against both internal and external threats.
I'm also fully aware of many "criticisms" of Israel being instances of thinly-veiled anti-semitism.
I'm also fully aware that many groups that oppose Israel, such as the Hamas, are fully-blown terrorist organizations that are generally worse than anything Israel has ever done.
I still disagree with many decisions by the Israelian government, while making it clear that it's the government whose decisions I disagree with, not the Israelian people or "the Jews" in general.
No.
You don't get to be a gatekeeper for anti-semitism, nor who is anti-Jewish or not just because you are "Jewish". I happen to work with a boss who is Palestinian, but that doesn't give me any more currency to dictate authority in this discussion. As far as I can tell, you're not Israeli (which is a separate to being Jewish, at least in certain socio-political discussions). The political discussion of Israel, while (at worst) may be "off-topic" for a thread about antisemitism (unless it was linked to discussing those who used it as a vehicle for such behaviour), but by itself, the criticism of the creation, behaviour of or other political issues relating to ISRAEL is not "anti-semetic".
Your post again jumped to far too many conclusions and was ill thought-out. Again, please take care in the claims you make, especially when (incorrectly) insinuating that anyone who (even from a possibly off-topic angle) is "racist" or "anti-Semitic".
I hope that further discourse can be to a higher standard from us all, including yourself. By all means disagree or do you best to offer information that might educate "ignorant" people like myself. I'm certainly no expert. Also, if you feel the discussion of Israel is not relevant to this thread, I would welcome criticism from that angle too. However, If you are unable to do so without restoring to baseless insinuations or gate-keeping, then you will be blocked/set to ignore and your comments will no longer be relevant to me, at the very least.
I hope it doesn't come to that. The Allspark is usually voiced by a higher calibre of the TF community, at least from my experience.
My basic line of thought is: if you can replace the noun in the sentence with "aliens" and the statement become a full blown conspiracy theory, the source is a full blown conspiracy. Let's practice:
* Jews / Israel control the media / economy / politics / the weather / the world
* Aliens / Xeno's control the media / economy / politics / the weather / the world
See what I mean: it's the perfect litmus test.
* Jews / Israel control the media / economy / politics / the weather / the world
* Aliens / Xeno's control the media / economy / politics / the weather / the world
See what I mean: it's the perfect litmus test.
Well, you've just summed up most of the content on the, ahem, "History (sic) Channel"...
Also I'm pretty sure the latter is literally a dogwhistle for the former (or at least it started out as one; as the flat earthers proved, no parody of a conspiracy theory is so intentionally stupid or insane that some people won't unironically fall for it).
PrimalxConvoy said:
As the Monty Python routine goes, there is a difference between an argument and mere contradiction. If you have already concluded that you can't possibly be mistaken about antisemitism and that any attempt to get you to reconsider your priors is mere "gatekeeping," then what could ever change your mind in a discussion like this? When you flatly refuse to consider that calling Jews aliens who don't belong in the Middle East and have ruined it is antisemitic, then what possibly could cross the threshold?
This is important. As someone who is not Jewish, who doesn't know much about Jewish history, and who lives in one of the least diverse countries in the world, where out of 125 million people barely 300 are Jewish, there are probably more sets of living quadruplets - you really do need to be able to grapple with the possibility that there is more to both Jewish and Middle Eastern history than whatever you have heard from your "Palestinian boss." It takes a little epistemic openness and humility to join a real discussion. Do you have it?
If the above fits your definition of "gatekeeping," go ahead and block me. In my 21 years here I've blocked exactly 2 people: one was a Young Earth Creationist who wouldn't stop stalking me via PM, the other a drunk-posting gaybasher. For what it's worth, I really would not have added you to the list. I think you could learn, if you wanted to. Because I agree with you on one thing - Allspark has usually had a higher quality of discussion, among them the Antisemitism thread (about 5 years) and Israel/Palestine thread (7 years). I really regret that they are no longer available for you to read.
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