Anti-Semitism

[Teufel]

There's a fair amount of gaslighting from the pro-Palestinian side about this pogrom, downplaying it as just being about anti-Zionism or a clash between soccer hooligans.

But the attackers were pretty open about what they were doing. And local authorities have few doubts.

Link

The casino said it had fired a security guard after learning of posts he sent later that evening to a chat group. In a screenshot of the exchange posted online, the guard promises to alert others on the thread if Israeli fans “show up again.”

“Tomorrow after the game in the night,” someone replies, “part two of Jew hunt.”

They also agree that Israeli fans were assaulted on multiple occasions in different locations, often in hit-and-run attacks on bikes and on foot, and that some attackers appear to have singled out their victims for being Jewish.

This was not the eruption of violence that Europe often sees around big soccer matches, with groups of supporters from rival clubs clashing in the streets, the authorities said. The city’s top prosecutor, René de Beukelaar, said on Friday that officials were investigating whether the attackers were linked in a formal way, and whether there was an “organized connection” between the various acts of violence.

Interviews with eyewitnesses and local officials, as well as screenshots of text exchanges over social media and online videos verified by The Times, suggest that the attackers specifically targeted both Israelis and Jewish people. Some victims reported being stopped and asked if they were Israeli or Jewish. Videos verified by The Times showed others being asked to show their passports, or trying to escape harm by saying they were not Jewish.

60+ arrests had been announced, but it turns out all of them were before the attacks? I'm not sure how that's even possible.

By Friday morning, the police said, five people were hospitalized, and dozens more had been injured, some with broken legs. The police said 63 had been arrested — though all of the arrests appear to have been made before the match, and not in its chaotic aftermath.

 

[Teufel]

Apparently they're not done. We may never know the true motivation.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1856117679456956648

 

[Thylacine 2000]

And now Jewish kids are being attacked by knife-wielding pro-Palestine mobs in Germany.

Berlin Jewish youth soccer team attacked by knife-wielding pro-Palestinian mob

The players were reportedly chased by a crowd wielding sticks and knives, according to German news site Tagesspiegel daily.

m.jpost.com

 

[Deathy G1]

There’s a certain irony in the fact that the liberals are now the nazis.

 

[Pocket]

Unfortunately the far right are also the Nazis.

And everyone in between is spineless and ineffectual at doing anything about either problem, at best, and enablers of at least one of the above at worst.

*shrug* What can ya do.

 

[MrBlud]

Liberal position is that all life has dignity and they’re against killing 35,000 Palestinians through indiscriminate attacks the same way they’re against attacking music festivals, taking hostages, and killing 1,200 Israeli’s.

If you’re physically attacking people or waving a Hamas flag you’re just a terrorist. No political ideology need apply.

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

There’s a certain irony in the fact that the liberals are now the nazis.

Funnily enough, that's what the Israeli government/armed forces have been compared to as well. It doesn't mean it's correct, nor a fact.

 

[MrBlud]

Swastika sent to Jewish students, labelled non-hate crime by UK police

THE hug?!?

That’s the example you’d use in the Dictionary to *describe* a hate crime.

 

[Xaaron]

No. It's not.

A hate crime is when a crime is committed against someone and a bias "of hate" is the clear motivator.

Making someone see something that offends them is not a crime.

Battery is a crime. Battery motivated by anti-semitism is a hate crime. Anti-semitism is not a crime, nor a hate crime.

 

[MrBlud]

Sending a Jewish person a Swastika is a very clear message.

It’s actively a threat and should be treated as such.

Like burning a cross on an African-American’s lawn.

 

[Pocket]

It's hate speech, which some countries have laws against and others (like the US, with its all-encompassing first amendment) don't. Apparently the UK is one of the "don't" countries.

Also burning a cross on anyone's lawn counts as arson, and therefore a crime that's eligible to be upgraded to a hate crime.

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

Anti-semitism is not a crime, nor a hate crime.

I beg to to differ.

"...
Antisemitic acts are criminal when they are so defined by law (for example, denial of the Holocaust or distribution of antisemitic materials in some countries).

Criminal acts are antisemitic when the targets of attacks, whether they are people or property – such as buildings, schools, places of worship and cemeteries – are selected because they are, or are perceived to be, Jewish or linked to Jews.

Antisemitic discrimination is the denial to Jews of opportunities or services available to others and is illegal in many countries...

(Source: - https://www.state.gov/defining-antisemitism/)

"...
In the UK we use this definition of hate crime in general:

Hate crimes and incidents are taken to mean any crime or incident where the perpetrator’s hostility or prejudice against an identifiable group of people is a factor in determining who is victimised.

The UK Government’s overall policy is that it is up to the victim to determine whether a crime against them was motivated by any particular characteristics. This builds trust in the police among minority communities, and allows flexibility in our response.

However, for those seeking a definition of antisemitism, the UK’s College of Policing does include a working definition of antisemitism in their guidance to police forces in the UK...

(Source: - https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/a-definition-of-antisemitism)

Furthermore, in parts of the UK, we have legally-defined "hate speech".

"Hate speech laws in England and Wales are found in several statutes, and differ slightly from the laws adopted in Scotland. Expressions of hatred toward someone on account of that person's colour, race, sex, disability, nationality (including citizenship), ethnic or national origin, religion, or sexual orientation is forbidden. Any communication which is threatening or abusive, and is intended to harass, alarm, or distress someone is forbidden. The penalties for hate speech include fines, imprisonment, or both..."

(Source: - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_the_United_Kingdom )

 

[Anonymous X]

Yes, we do have hate speech laws here. I put this inaction down to a (very wrong) decision by whomever in the Cambridgeshire police force.

 

[Xaaron]

Even going off of the UK definitions PrimalxConvoy provided, this still wouldn't qualify as hate speech. The communication must be "threatening or abusive". Unless those words also have different meaning across the pond, that threshold is not met here. Some people got sent a meme post essentially asserting "Jewish people are acting like Nazis". It's an uncomfortable, even insulting, comparison, but there is no threat or abuse tied to that pronouncement, like You're Next, We're Coming For You, Go Back to [] or Else...

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

Even going off of the UK definitions PrimalxConvoy provided, this still wouldn't qualify as hate speech. The communication must be "threatening or abusive". Unless those words also have different meaning across the pond, that threshold is not met here. Some people got sent a meme post essentially asserting "Jewish people are acting like Nazis". It's an uncomfortable, even insulting, comparison, but there is no threat or abuse tied to that pronouncement, like You're Next, We're Coming For You, Go Back to [] or Else...

Anything that can offend can be seen as "abusive" in this context as it can be used to mentally/verbally "abuse" someone, I believe.

There are some differences between now the UK and USA view freedom of speech, which might be relevant?

- https://theworld.org/stories/2016/07/30/freedomofspeech-what-means-us-britain-and-france

- https://scholarworks.law.ubalt.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1516&context=lf

 

[Ironbite4]

.......I'm sorry but is someone defending sending a swastika to Jewish students?

Ironbite-.....I don't want to play this game anymore.