Anti-Semitism

diamondgirl

Member
Citizen
I believe that what Orthodox Jewish sects and a good chunk of Christians believe. Historical and archeological evidence is a bit iffy on said conclusion. The people who were their at the time would NOT have been what we'd considered Palestinians today, though. Same general region, but somewhat different ethnicity. Millennia of migrations from other areas have changed the demographics, not to mention the major religious and cultural shifts that have occurred in the area.

Thank You.

I think Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were actually in Palestine after the great Flood and actually formed the 12 tribes of Israel there. They migrated to Egypt to escape the famine in Palestine. So it looks like the Israelites were originally there to begin with.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
The people who were there at the time would NOT have been what we'd considered Palestinians today, though. Same general region, but somewhat different ethnicity.
Palestinians are Arabs. And Arabs didn't enter the Levant in large numbers until the 630s AD/CE when the freshly Islamized Arabs came out of Arabia and conquered it from the Byzantines (Romans).
The Siege of Jerusalem was from 636-637 AD/CE and was the finally conquest of the Islamic forces, after which you start to see large scale Arab settlement in the Holy Land.

Prior to that the native inhabitants were Israelites- Jews- who began as one of the Canaanite tribes. Putting dates to Exodus and assuming it's mostly accurate can be dangerous, so let's just rely on archeology.

It appears as if Israelites, the ancestors of Jews, emerged as one of the many Canaanite tribes. The Canaanites had a pantheon as most ancient groups did and each group would have had its own patron deity in the pantheon. Israel got Y-hweh, the storm god. And indeed the earliest versions of pre-codified Old Testament scripture confirm this by saying of the nations Y-hweh was given "Jacob and his inheritance," Jacob being the original "Israel."

There was some sort of societal upheaval in the Canaanite world though and either gradually or relatively suddenly, we don't know specifically, Israel began to subsume the other Canaanite tribes and Y-hweh was promoted to chief god, assuming the names and powers of the old chief god, El, which is why both "el" and the plural "elohim" are both titles for Y-hweh and generic terms for deities in the Bible's original Hebrew.
This Israelite subsuming of Canaanite society is likely what the Biblical story of Joshua conquering Jericho alludes to.

Point is the Canaanites were closer related to modern day Jews and Phoenicians than they were Arabs.
All of them are semitic groups of course, but the Biblical story of Jericho predates Arabs' arrival in the area by thousands of years and is likely a poetic retelling of Israelite ascendency within the Canaanite tribal framework.

I think Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were actually in Palestine after the great Flood and actually formed the 12 tribes of Israel there. They migrated to Egypt to escape the famine in Palestine. So it looks like the Israelites were originally there to begin with.
The Great Flood, if it happened at all, is likely an ancestral memory dating back to when the proto-Israelites were still living in Mesopotamia given that the Biblical flood myth mirrors Mesopotamian flood myths.

According to the Bible the Twelve Tribes of Israel were founded by the twelve sons of Jacob, who was anointed as "Israel" when G-d was suitably impressed with him.

If you follow the Bible's genealogy he's Isaac's son and Abraham's grandson. With Abraham taking his family from Mesopotamia to the Holy Land likely a retelling of the original exodus of proto-Israelites from Ur to the Levant after they split with the Mesopotamians.
 
Last edited:

diamondgirl

Member
Citizen
Dennis Prager seems like a very smart man. I used to listen to him on talk radio sometimes. He sounded Christian to me, but I just read he was Jewish.

The Jewish calendar puts Creation at around 5000 BC. How is this reconciled with science which puts Creation at millions or billions of years?

I think the 5000 BC is based on after the Fall when Adam started tracking his age.

So do the millions of years come before the Garden of Eden was created? Does Creation start before the Garden of Eden and the creation of man?

Or were Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden for millions of years, walking among dinosaurs?
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
Dennis Prager seems like a very smart man
Dennis Prager is, to use a term my grade five Hebrew teacher was fond of, a nudnik.

The Jewish calendar puts Creation at around 5000 BC. How is this reconciled with science which puts Creation at millions or billions of years?
Easy. The Bible isn't literal. It's metaphor and stories meant to reference some past events and impart lessons about living a pious life. It's not meant to be a literal history book.

The Jewish calendar says the Earth is 5,783 years old. The Jewish calendar is wrong.
I don't know what happened 5,783 years ago to mark the start of it, we likely will never know for sure, but it wasn't the start of the world.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
It's suspiciously close to the development of writing, and thus written record keeping. Might be a connection there, but my Tardis is in the shop, so I can't go and verify.
My guess is it has something to do with the proto-Israelites splitting from the Mesopotamians and heading to the Levant (the Abraham story). It would make sense as Jews consider this the start of the "Jewish people."

But like... yeah. Who knows?
 

NovaSaber

Well-known member
Citizen
Dennis Prager seems like a very smart man.
No, he is not. He is the type of person who is good at sounding smarter than he really is to people who aren't familiar with the subject he's talking about at the time.

I used to listen to him on talk radio sometimes. He sounded Christian to me, but I just read he was Jewish.
He does that deliberately. He panders to Christian nationalists because there isn't much of an American far-right without them.

Like Ben Shapiro, he incorrectly believes that the anti-Semites he's allying with (at least one Prager U presenter is a Holocaust denier) won't turn on him.

The Jewish calendar puts Creation at around 5000 BC. How is this reconciled with science which puts Creation at millions or billions of years?
It's not. (Also that's more than a thousand years off from what it says anyway.)
Calling the start of the Jewish calendar "creation" is just incorrect.
I don't even know what percentage of modern Jews still believe it is; but any that do are just wrong.

I think the 5000 BC is based on after the Fall when Adam started tracking his age.

So do the millions of years come before the Garden of Eden was created? Does Creation start before the Garden of Eden and the creation of man?

Or were Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden for millions of years, walking among dinosaurs?
There was never a Garden of Eden.

Humans evolved from other apes. We were not made out of clay with life breathed into it by a golem spell.
There was never a talking snake. There was never a magic fruit that granted moral comprehension, nor one that granted immortality.
The world is billions of years old, and its origin does not resemble any religion's creation myth.
Humans never lived for 900 years, there was never a global flood, and there were already a lot of different languages long before Babylon existed.

Evolution is the most well-supported theory in science, and creationism's most prominent advocates are known liars.
 
Last edited:

Spin-Out

i cant take it anymore im at my limit
Citizen
enh, i don't think the norse creation story boils down to "women are the reason the world sucks," so i think the abrahamic creation myth would make a shittier metal song for that reason alone lol
 

The Mighty Mollusk

Scream all you like, 'cause we're all mad here
Citizen
I mean, it'd be pretty hard to make a more metal creation story than "the gods killed a giant and made the world from his corpse".
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
enh, i don't think the norse creation story boils down to "women are the reason the world sucks," so i think the abrahamic creation myth would make a shittier metal song for that reason alone lol
Ehhh...

In Genesis Adam tries to do just that, and blame Eve for his poor choices.
G-d, however, doesn't buy it and punishes both of them because each was responsible for their own actions. Eve doesn't make things bad for Adam, she makes things bad for Eve. Adam is likewise the cause of his own punishment.

The idea that Eve was at fault really took off in the Middle Ages. Both Jewish and Christian theological texts from the Medieval period lean into the "blame Eve" stuff, but it's mostly Medieval writers projecting the morals of their era onto the text. The text itself is pretty clear about G-d rebuking Adam when Adam tries to blame Eve.
 

diamondgirl

Member
Citizen
The Jewish people have alot of leaders, heroes and role models in the fight against anti-Semitism: Bibi Netanyahu, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, Jared Kushner, Ben Shapiro, Alan Dershowitz, Jesse Watters, Joe Lieberman, Bernie Sanders, Chuck Schumer, Barbara Boxer, just to name a few.....that's quite a roster, with a very deep bench.
 

diamondgirl

Member
Citizen
Deep bench: Albert Einstein, Gal Gadot, Stan Lee, Elizabeth Taylor, Natalie Portman, Steven Spielberg, Jerry Lewis, Jennifer Connelly, Scarlett Johansson....some of my favorites, impressive bench.

I was reported for inappropriate behavior in this thread, and I'm just trying to make amends with whoever I offended.
 

diamondgirl

Member
Citizen
Whoever I offended, I'm deeply sorry. Please forgive me, for I know not what I do. I have a message for you and a request (this is why they call me diamondgirl):


"When the student is ready, the Master will appear. " I'm ready to learn from you . Show me love. Show me life. Show me what it's all about. All right?
 

diamondgirl

Member
Citizen
Michael Richards of Seinfeld fame went on a rant of ant-Semitism during one of his standup acts.

Isn't Michael Richards Jewish?

Can Jews be anti-Semitic? Bobby Fischer was anti-Semitic, but I heard he was actually Jewish himself.
 


Top Bottom