Articulation in toys (continued from the Picture thread)

[Sabrblade]

The original Armada Megatron toy would also never ever shut up, always shouting "Decepticons, attack!" at the slightest touch of the turret.

In fact, I can't think of a single Unicron Trilogy toy that had a sound chip in it whose noises weren't super obnoxious and couldn't be silenced when just trying to play with the figure in the most basic of ways. That whole era was full of toys who screamed random noises at the drop of a hat. Makes me really glad that the ones released by 3H and Fun Pub had those electronic sounds removed.

 

[LordGigaIce]

Armada Optimus' infrared trailer was annoying and never really worked right either and the Legacy version's take was far less frustrating.

 

[Sabrblade]

Armada Optimus' infrared trailer was annoying and never really worked right either and the Legacy version's take was far less frustrating.

It never worked for me, period. I always had to transform mine manually, making those uncomfortably-loud clicking sounds along the way that always sounded like I was damaging something inside it.

If your toy sounds like you're damaging it every time you play with it according to the line's traditional play pattern, then there's something inherently wrong with that toy's design/engineering.

 

[LordGigaIce]

It always half worked for me and never in any useful way. Partially transforming when I didn't want it to, not actually functioning when I wanted it to work, and yeah the Armada trailer is just unpleasant to transform by hand.

The Legacy version just treats it like any other trailer/base/power up and makes it analog and it's all the better for it.

Also it has knees.

 

[Exatron]

Armada isn't part of my childhood, being the first line to debut when I was an independent adult, just days after I started my career. But since we're talking about it..

My Armada Optimus trailer always worked fine... if I could get it to trigger. Doing so kinda killed the fun of transforming Optimus though, so I didn't like doing it. Once Jetfire came along, the trailer became just another box stashed away out of sight.

Articulation was probably the biggest disappointment in that line to me. After BW/BM and the new RiD molds, it felt like such a huge step back to the worst parts of G1. I always saw lots of love for Scavenger's stomping gimmick, but he was among the worst for me. I mean, I absolutely LOVED my Trypticon...

but this was just a less impressive version of that featuring even worse design compromises. I was not a fan.

I loved a lot of what Megatron had going for him, but the legs were definitely a big disappointment. The Legacy version is a huge upgrade for me just based on that. I don't get the hate for the shoulders on either him or G2 Optimus. It limits their range of movement some, but they still have plenty to meet my needs.

In general, most complaints I see about lack of articulation on modern figures don't bother me. When it's on figures I own, I often have to drag them out and examine them to figure out what the complaint even is. For things like the aforementioned shoulders, anything they're missing often doesn't even register to me until I've seen it called out and go looking for it. They just aren't issues for me.

 

[LordGigaIce]

Articulation was probably the biggest disappointment in that line to me. After BW/BM and the new RiD molds, it felt like such a huge step back to the worst parts of G1.

One theory I heard was that Armada was almost like a reset.
G2 introduced ball joints, which really got leaned on for BW and BM. That stuff was carried over into CR/RiD '01.

Armada, by reverting to late G1 levels of articulation, began a process of alternate evolution almost, where a less ball joint dependent path towards articulated Transformers could be mapped from.

I don't know if that was intentional. Honestly I think BM's failure in the marketplace and Archer's own pedigree with the Real Ghostbusters line, mixed with some frustrations about the Car Bros' complexity, all sort of collided in a way where HasTak figured that chunky gimmicks were the way forward rather than more spindly ball jointed figures that wore their alt modes like shells.

Once Aramda was deemed a success articulation and gimmicks came and went as the figures needed/could support them. I don't think anyone was trying to map out an alternate design evolution for Transformers, but it ended up happening.

 

[Shadewing]

One theory I heard was that Armada was almost like a reset.
G2 introduced ball joints, which really got leaned on for BW and BM. That stuff was carried over into CR/RiD '01.

Armada, by reverting to late G1 levels of articulation, began a process of alternate evolution almost, where a less ball joint dependent path towards articulated Transformers could be mapped from.

I don't know if that was intentional. Honestly I think BM's failure in the marketplace and Archer's own pedigree with the Real Ghostbusters line, mixed with some frustrations about the Car Bros' complexity, all sort of collided in a way where HasTak figured that chunky gimmicks were the way forward rather than more spindly ball jointed figures that wore their alt modes like shells.

Once Aramda was deemed a success articulation and gimmicks came and went as the figures needed/could support them. I don't think anyone was trying to map out an alternate design evolution for Transformers, but it ended up happening.

The way I see it: Takara had gotten to the point of making some stupidly fiddly Transformers between BWNeo and Car Robots. Not everything, but both lines had some guys that were very annoying to transform. I believe Armada was the first line with Aaron's team. So to try and curb Takara some, and to try to get kids interest with a more heavily gimmicked line, that was basically Transformers Pokemon. They go back to a more basic design theory. However, a lot of figures in Armada are still very posable. Like Optimus' core robot might not have been bendy, but he still had base line articulation. Red Alert was very posable to. Starscream despite the sound box and missle luanchers still had a decent range of motion, I was alway more annoyed by him having a figurative mile of toy behind him more then lacking any universal joints or anything. About half the line were decently posable and more so then the average G1 figure, and the other half were kinda bricks, and not always due to their gimmicks.

 

[Sabrblade]

It was Brian Goldner who wanted to return the brand to vehicles, and said "We need a collectible Transformers line, and we need to get back to cars. How ever you can do that, do that." This was back in December 2000.

Per this TFCon video of Aaron Archer:

 

[LordGigaIce]

It was Brian Goldner who wanted to return the brand to vehicles, and said "We need a collectible Transformers line, and we need to get back to cars. How ever you can do that, do that." This was back in December 2000.

As with anything, it was money. BM bombed, they decided to pivot. Then RiD '01 and Armada sold like gangbusters and convinced the suits that vehicles were the way forward.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

Armada Optimus' infrared trailer was annoying and never really worked right either and the Legacy version's take was far less frustrating.

It worked for me once. Never again. Mechanism just died after one use.

 

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

Top priority for Transformers articulation is being able to move their arms up and down. Ideally so they can fire a gun, though other weapon-wielding works, too.

Secondary: I guess I kinda like it when heads can turn. Like, left and right at a minimum. It always struck me weird when some G1 guys couldn't. Powermaster Prime's inner robot? Sure, that makes sense that he can't just by looking at him. The Super Robot version? That thing looks like it should be able to turn, baby, turn.

Third: Legs that can make a walking or sitting pose is nice.

I wonder how many G1 toys failed at even having one of these.

Well, we know six -- the Throttlebots!

I love the Throttlebots, but poseable, they were not.

 

[Shadewing]

Top priority for Transformers articulation is being able to move their arms up and down. Ideally so they can fire a gun, though other weapon-wielding works, too.

Secondary: I guess I kinda like it when heads can turn. Like, left and right at a minimum. It always struck me weird when some G1 guys couldn't. Powermaster Prime's inner robot? Sure, that makes sense that he can't just by looking at him. The Super Robot version? That thing looks like it should be able to turn, baby, turn.

Third: Legs that can make a walking or sitting pose is nice.

I wonder how many G1 toys failed at even having one of these.

Well, we know six -- the Throttlebots!

I love the Throttlebots, but poseable, they were not.

The Throttlebots and Battlechargers were both "lets do something cool with this gimmick" which didn't allow for them to have meaninful articulation. As a kid, I was fine with that. As an adult that would like to see real gimmicks return, that's maybe one that should be left behind.

 

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

"I just want some shoulder joints! A decent pair of shoulder joints!"

 

[Gizmoboy]

I came back into the hobby after an 8 year hiatic at the end of Beast Wars/beginning of Beast Machines toy lines. I was really impressed with the engineering advances between the ending toys of G1 and that era. That was the first time I realized that the level of articulation was possible in Transformers. I had wanted it before, but never that it COULD happen and still get the functionality of a transformation.

 

[Haywire]

Regarding Legacy Armada Megatron's shoulders, the only time it really registers as an issue for me is when I try to pose the shoulder treads angled back, and I only try to do that because the original could.

Armada Scavenger got mentioned, and while I have an inordinate fondness for the bizarre walking action (which became hopping action by rotating one of the cams 180 degrees), that's one figure that I wish had been given "proper" legs. Like, from the waist up, he's fine, but I would love if the legs were redesigned to give him some basic articulation.

 

[Shadewing]

Armada Scavenger is certainly on my list of characters I really want a new toy of. Him, Sideswipe, and Sideways are the new tops of my list for Armada. Scanenger and Sideways had cool toys but I'd love to see them have some actual articulation; and Sideswipe just needs a good toy period. But I want them to keep his Megaman-esque proportions.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

Armada Scavenger with legs would be a fantastic toy. I don't care if it takes a Leader priced Voyager to pull it off. It's an interesting enough design to be worth it.

 

[Shadewing]

Armada Scanvenger, my big issue with him was that he was very difficult to get into a standing pose, he always ended up lurching forward for me.

 

[lastmaximal]

I always saw the gimmick as fun but not my thing. I did really like how they designed it to come together, with the panels flipping around and connecting as feet, and the way the roller served to move them. Clever and perfect for a kid's imagination.

I passed on Scavenger but loved the colors on Tread Bolt. And I'd love a contemporary, articulated take on the design. I'm sure the third party upgrade kits with a ginormous cloak are already designed.