DiCFormers: Less Than Meets The Eye?

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

Something I've taken pleasure from viewing on YouTube is some of these fanmade Transformers openings for seasons that never occurred.

Basically in the style of Seasons 4 and 5, these apply the Season 3 theme (aka The Best One) against animation from those latter-year toy commercials, like so:

Of course, we never did get later seasons of G1 past Season 5 (which was itself repackaged episodes from the previous four seasons, bookended by Tommy Kennedy talking to a giant Powermaster Optimus Prime puppet).

G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero, on the other hand, which ended its run with Sunbow around a similar time, would come back later and continue their story under the guidance of DiC, who are best known for cartoons such as The Real Ghostbusters, Inspector Gadget, The Super Mario Bros. Super Show!, Captain N: The Game Master, The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3, Captain N and The New Super Mario World (yes, it was actually called that), Double Dragon, Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog, Sonic the Hedgehog SatAM, and Sonic Underground.

They weren't nobodies, but they did apparently work cheaper (enough so that to insiders, "DiC" stood for "Do it Cheap").

Something I noticed about the latter G1 commercials/the intros above is that they look... different. My understanding is they were still done by Sunbow, but even so, I was nevertheless reminded of the DiC G.I. Joe cartoon. And that got me to wondering...

What if DiC had continued Transformers G1 the way they did G.I. Joe? Based on what they did with A Real American Hero, what would that be like?

Well, for starters, if the above is any indication, we might have got a banging new theme. I know "Got To Get Tough, Yo Joe" isn't as iconic as the original, but man, it still occupies a space in my head rent-free, and I still hum it from time to time.

For another thing, there would probably have been a shift in the voice cast, but maybe not a total one -- at least at first. From Wikipedia:

Because the DiC series was produced in Canada, an almost entirely new cast was assembled. Only a few actors from the Sunbow series returned for the DIC series; Sgt. Slaughter, Chris Latta (the voice of Cobra Commander), Ed Gilbert (Hawk), Jerry Houser (Sci-Fi) and Morgan Lofting (Baroness). With Season 2, Chris Latta was the only voice actor to return, and the Baroness and Hawk were recast with new voices.

So on the one hand, we might have seen more of Chris Latta as Starscream in his Pretender and Action Master forms. But beyond that...? Most of the roles the ones who did return for G.I. Joe's first DiC season weren't really in the latter part of the toy line. Guys like Superion, Sandstorm, and Blitzwing. So it would probably be an entirely new cast.

However, it's worth noting that several voices who would join the Transformers brand a few years later were a part of this new Joe lineup. Garry Chalk, Jim Byrnes, David Kaye, Scott McNeil, Doug Parker, and Maurice LaMarche (okay, he came in a bit later than the rest) were all on hand.

Could we have gotten Chalktimus Prime and Kayatron years before they took on the roles for the Unicron Trilogy (and the adjacent character namesakes in Beast Wars, of course)?

Eh, maybe, maybe not. Still, it's interesting to imagine!

I haven't yet seen the full series, but I do know that the DiC series of G.I. Joe isn't as fondly remembered as the Sunbow era. Could Transformers have fared any better? What sort of plots do you think we might have gotten had they continued on?

And, of course, would it be worth it?

Discuss.

 

[Echowarrior]

A part of me likes to think that, if DiC had produced a continuation of G1, they would have kept Peter Cullen as Optimus Prime and Frank Welker as Galvatron, Soundwave, and probably a few other guys.

Also, Maurice LaMarche did do some voicework for the original show.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

I'd probably have a Monstructor by now if G1's later years got a show, so I'd love if this happened.

 

[Haywire]

I like the idea, in concept, of a "what if DiC had continued the G1 cartoon?". If GI Joe is anything to go by, it would have certainly had a different feel from the Sunbow seasons. I would imagine there would be at least one anti-drug episode, as that seemed to be a staple of DiC shows at the time.

My question is, if the DiC voice cast had worked on a Transformers cartoon, would we have gotten the voices in later shows that we did? Would Chalk's Primal and Kaye's Megatron have sounded the same if they had already worked on a show that had a way that Transformers were supposed to sound? Would they even have agreed to the roles?

 

[LordGigaIce]

DiC's G1 continuation may have made fan reception of S3 and the Rebirth more positive in retrospect. Like "G1 ended when it went to DiC, the DiC season(s) were awful."

I can see it as something that got a positive reassessment in the late 2000s, until today when its offerings and designs made its way into Legacy and it's finally "accepted" by the fandom at large.

 

[Sabrblade]

G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero, on the other hand, which ended its run with Sunbow around a similar time, would come back later and continue their story under the guidance of DiC, who are best known for cartoons such as The Real Ghostbusters, Inspector Gadget, The Super Mario Bros. Super Show!, Captain N: The Game Master, The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3, Captain N and The New Super Mario World (yes, it was actually called that), Double Dragon, Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog, Sonic the Hedgehog SatAM, and Sonic Underground.

You left out the greatest DiC cartoon ever: Where on Earth is Carmen Sandiego?

For another thing, there would probably have been a shift in the voice cast, but maybe not a total one -- at least at first. From Wikipedia:


So on the one hand, we might have seen more of Chris Latta as Starscream in his Pretender and Action Master forms. But beyond that...? Most of the roles the ones who did return for G.I. Joe's first DiC season weren't really in the latter part of the toy line. Guys like Superion, Sandstorm, and Blitzwing. So it would probably be an entirely new cast.

It's difficult to say since DiC had worked with a number of different voice actor talent pools for their various shows. DiC was known for using Canadian VAs from Toronto or Vancouver, but sometimes also used Los Angeles VAs. If they'd gone for the latter, most of the original cast could have returned. But I have a feeling they might have stuck with a Canadian cast instead, as a cost-saving measure since Transformers was on the downward swing in popularity during those later years. Pretenders, Micromasters, and Action Masters weren't exactly raking in the cash that the Diaclone/Micro Change molds did at the beginning of the line. Headmasters, Targetmasters, and Powermasters kept the line going for a bit longer, but they were kinda the last gasp of air for what the line was before it became what it was in 1989-1990.

It seems DiC was willing to shell out the cash on those five LA-based actors in order to keep their characters' voices consistent between the Sunbow and DiC versions of the show. Like Echowarrior, I could see them doing the same to keep Cullen and Welker around, especially since Cullen is also Canadian and Welker has been known to work in some Canadian-based productions (he voiced Frisket in ReBoot, for instance). Unless DiC could find good Canadian soundalikes for Cullen and Welker's roles, which would let DiC save more money (like you said, "Doing It Cheap").

Could we have gotten Chalktimus Prime and Kayatron years before they took on the roles for the Unicron Trilogy (and the adjacent character namesakes in Beast Wars, of course)?

Eh, maybe, maybe not. Still, it's interesting to imagine!

I could see Chalk and Kaye being cast as characters in such a production, but not as Optimus and Megatron. DiC would likely have wanted some vocal consistency for those two, so would have either have them reprise their roles or would recast them with soundalikes, which Chalk and Kaye aren't (as talented as they truly are).

I haven't yet seen the full series, but I do know that the DiC series of G.I. Joe isn't as fondly remembered as the Sunbow era. Could Transformers have fared any better? What sort of plots do you think we might have gotten had they continued on?

And, of course, would it be worth it?

Hard to say. Like you said, DiC's G.I. Joe is considered the lesser series compared to the Sunbow one, and Transformers was near the end of its rope by 1989, being nothing but Pretenders and Micromasters. Then 1990 killed the line with more Micromasters and Action Masters, with no "traditional" figures in the line anymore. It's even possible that the toy sales weren't doing well enough to fund a new cartoon, as the toy sales were where the money to make the G1 cartoon came from in the first place.

---

Also, Maurice LaMarche did do some voicework for the original show.

Indeed. He was the voice of Six-Gun in the Season 3 episode "Thief in the Night".

---

My question is, if the DiC voice cast had worked on a Transformers cartoon, would we have gotten the voices in later shows that we did? Would Chalk's Primal and Kaye's Megatron have sounded the same if they had already worked on a show that had a way that Transformers were supposed to sound? Would they even have agreed to the roles?

I can imagine so. Back then, voice work was just a job to them. If they had been cast in an early-90s Transformers cartoon, it would have just been business as usual for them. Beast Wars, however, was different. It was designed to be something special and unlike other cartoons both before and around it. The Beast Wars cast have attested to that in their accounts of recording the show. But even with that said, it also wasn't until they started going to BotCons in the late 90s and got to meet and interact with fans that they realized just how meaningful their work was to so many people. Not just their work on Beast Wars but on other projects they'd done. If they had worked on such an early-90s TF cartoon, they likely would have received recognition for their work on that by fans at BotCon just as they did for their work on Beast Wars.

 

[Tuxedo Prime]

Well, here are my thoughts for the 1988-1989 season (predicting that a handover was negotiated but nothing was done until after the 1987 writer's strike was resolved, meaning we still have "The Rebirth", then a hiatus, then a Season 4), such as they are.

DiC, for all its infamy, probably wouldn't have continued the partnership with AKOM (which was one of the complaints regarding Season 3). Whom they might have used for animation is unknowable, but a less-rough looking (though still not up to Toei) production might have kept interest in the brand (both in media and in the toyline) going stronger against "second-wave" series such as TMNT.

Assuming that's the case, we might have had more budgeting going for the toyline. In which case I would expect Overlord to appear on US toy shelves and in fiction as well as in Japan -- though that's not to say we would have harmony between the versions, as Toei seemed increasingly wanting to do Their Own Thing with the Transformers brand. The concept engine-conversion to overcome a world's poisoned resources might play into the environmental themes increasingly coming to the fore in this era of American animation -- though whether that world would be Earth, Nebulos, or somewhere entirely different becomes less clear.

Anyway, Latta's reprising Cobra Commander opens the door to Classic Pretender Starscream, so there's two new antagonists on the table-reading. A possible new Autobot combiner might get developed to counter Piranhaking.

Of course, then Micro Machines will come along, and Hasbro will likely want a piece of that craze. In which case it's either spin-off or retool time....

 

[Steevy Maximus]

My vibe on what could have happened?
It’s important to remember that the entire reason DiC did GI Joe was because they gave Hasbro a fantastic production deal (I’ve heard it described as “DiC practically paying Hasbro to make the series”). That goes a LONG way to explaining why GI Joe always looked ”lesser” compared to other DiC projects like COPS and Maxie’s World. But GI Joe was still a much more significant brand than Transformers was by 1988.

IF Hasbro would have commissioned DiC to do a new run on Transformers, I wouldn’t have expected it until after Hasbro examined the success of GI joe Operation Dragonfire. So episodes (probably a mini-series trial) would probably have started in the later part of 1990, focusing on the Action Masters with the Micromasters being a tertiary focus. I think that would have been the best play since so many of the Action Master cast are derived from the Sunbow series. Like GI Joe, I think it would have allowed the “syndication package” to have an overwhelming amount of commonality, not to mention cut back on the sheer volume of characters the Micromasters bring to the table.
Further, given no new Micromasters were seen in Europe in 1991, my feeling is that the segment might have been winding down anyway.

In addition, that opens Hasbro US to releasing the “Classic Heroes” range in the US, since there was so much commonality between Action Master casts and the Classic Heroes offerings. With budget cut backs seemingly in effect, it would greatly reduce the 1991 development costs to have continue the Action Masters while offering the Classic Heroes. It would also build towards the general market trend of being more “character driven”. A kid could get an Inferno action figure, and then be able to get the same character in a full transforming feature later on.

While I think Chris Latta would have returned for Starscream, I think pretty much everyone would have been replaced. Peter Cullen and Frank Welker were BIG VO guys at the time. Both were regulars for Warner, Hanna Barbara and Disney. There was NO reason, much less any financial incentive, for them to go to Canada to voice cartoon characters. With Cullen, there is an outside chance he MIGHT have done it, Welker was booked solid.

Past 1991, it gets murky. If the new cartoon run was a success, it might portend a new round of development, but I think it would have likely resulted in some of the same decisions from G2 coming sooner. Random name reuse and frequent new iterations of Optimus and Megatron for marketability.

 

[LordGigaIce]

Cullen is Canadian (born in Montreal) so that might have made travelling to do Optimus possible.

 

[Sabrblade]

Cullen is Canadian (born in Montreal) so that might have made travelling to do Optimus possible.

It wouldn't surprise me if the LA-based actors that DiC retained for G.I. Joe recorded their lines in LA separate from the rest of the Vancouver-based cast, like what was done for Tony Jay and Frank Welker in ReBoot, and for Tara Strong in MLPFIM.

Unless we actually have some documentation of Chris Latta et al traveling from LA to Vancouver to record for DiC's G.I. Joe?

 

[Agent X]

While D.I Joe has it's issues, the sound always grinds my gears.

First, the score. Sunbow-joe had iconic tunes, even outside the opening theme, with brass and drum heavy scores for Joe scenes and eerie synths for cobra scenes. for D.I. Joe: cheap, lifeless, stock, generic electronica. (because cheap)

Second: sound effects. The weapon fire sounds were replaced with cheap (there's that word again) sounds that seem to have some from a cheaper toy. And every vehicle uses the same 'peeling out' sfx regardless of vehicle or location, even if they're a treaded vehicle in the sand.

So on topic: if DiC did Transformers: the cast would sound off, the animation would look better than the third season- but not much else, and the sound and music would be the thing to make the entire production jive the bed.



Also; according to Maurice LaMarche (per a 2021 convention I met him at) besides being one of his first gigs, DiC actually tried to get Arthur Burghart for Destro, but he (Burghart) was out of the country at the time.

And isn't it weird, what few voices from the Sunbow show DiC got to use, Jerry Houser/Sci-Fi was one of them? Sci-Fi, other than his neon Green uniform, wasn't what I call an iconic member of the ensemble.

I cannot express how frustrating it is that the voice cast is not as accurate, complete, or as documented as the Sunbow casts.

 

[Steevy Maximus]

I’m not sure I would say DiC would have had “better” animation, but I think it would have been more CONSISTENT on an episode to episode basis than Season 3. Which, granted, probably WOULD have made the series “look” better at an initial glance.

That said, I also feel that DiC would never get as “imaginative” in terms of the scenes than the Sunbow production team. While the results were often…odd…at least Akom would make an attempt to animate some complex and interesting sequences. From a design perspective, I think DiC would have done things quickly and make for some boring sequences that would end up quicker/cheaper to animate.