Forty Years of Transformers Hot Takes

[Donocropolis]

I'll do you one better: the Gobots toy line was better than the initial Transformers waves. Transformers won the war with marketing, not superior product.

Especially if you consider the cartoon to be marketing. I loved Challenge of the Gobots, but it was no Sunbow Transformers.

But yes, as a kid, any and all transforming robots were accepted at playtime. I wish the whole "who has the rights to Gobots designs" thing wasn't so complicated so that there could be more full on Legacy style updates of Gobots characters.

 

[Gizmoboy]

I don't care much for "mysticism" in Transformers. I don't mind Unicron and Primus, and the idea that all the Transformers have Sparks that are a piece of Primus, but I've never been a fan of the pantheon of 13 original Primes or the Point One Percenters or that some sort of crazy mad science is required to create multichangers or what have you.

Very much this. I even shudder a little bit with the idea of Unicron and Primus as God like beings. I even came up with an explanation for Transformers sparks that doesn't involve Primus as a deity with my fan-fiction that sparks were developed by the Quintessons by imprinting a 3D artificial neuro network into a plasma cloud using their Vector Sigma super computer. The Matrix itself is a data storage device with a super rare power source that interacts with the holder's neuro net to allow them access to the stored memory of the past Primes along with a bit of a power boost.
I do like the idea of them being living beings, but not because of some mystical power.

 

[The Predaking]

Especially if you consider the cartoon to be marketing. I loved Challenge of the Gobots, but it was no Sunbow Transformers.

But yes, as a kid, any and all transforming robots were accepted at playtime. I wish the whole "who has the rights to Gobots designs" thing wasn't so complicated so that there could be more full on Legacy style updates of Gobots characters.

Yeah, growing up, my TFs, Gobots, Knock Offs, Kids Meal transformers and Gobots, all played together at once.

 

[Cybersnark]

I don't care much for "mysticism" in Transformers. I don't mind Unicron and Primus, and the idea that all the Transformers have Sparks that are a piece of Primus, but I've never been a fan of the pantheon of 13 original Primes or the Point One Percenters or that some sort of crazy mad science is required to create multichangers or what have you.

Very much this. I even shudder a little bit with the idea of Unicron and Primus as God like beings. I even came up with an explanation for Transformers sparks that doesn't involve Primus as a deity with my fan-fiction that sparks were developed by the Quintessons by imprinting a 3D artificial neuro network into a plasma cloud using their Vector Sigma super computer. The Matrix itself is a data storage device with a super rare power source that interacts with the holder's neuro net to allow them access to the stored memory of the past Primes along with a bit of a power boost.
I do like the idea of them being living beings, but not because of some mystical power.

There's also my take that the Thirteen were just Quintesson-made prototypes (subject to the "glitch" that made them self-aware) rather than anything divine.

(As is Unicron himself; a "Gone Horribly Right" prototype of an AI-guided planet-destroying superweapon.)

As much as Super-Robot DNA is baked into Transformers from its origin, I've always wanted to see a more Real-Robot take on the franchise.

 

[Haywire]

Especially if you consider the cartoon to be marketing. I loved Challenge of the Gobots, but it was no Sunbow Transformers.

But yes, as a kid, any and all transforming robots were accepted at playtime. I wish the whole "who has the rights to Gobots designs" thing wasn't so complicated so that there could be more full on Legacy style updates of Gobots characters.

I would be down for more Gobots homages in Transformers. Honestly, I wouldn't mind some Convertors references either (though I know the rights issues there are probably more nightmarish than Gobots). Hoot and Focus could be do-able as redecos of existing toys, and I still want a Tulcas/Tanker redeco of Impactor. After Gobots and Transformers, Convertors were probably my 3rd favorite transforming toys. (Distantly followed by Zybots).

The next capsule line should be all homages to competing brands and knockoffs!

 

[The Predaking]

The next capsule line should be all homages to competing brands and knockoffs!

I have been wanting them to use the Seeker mold to make this for years! It's by a company named Four Star and they had a black and red version too, but this is the one I had as a kid.

 

[Sabrblade]

I don't care much for "mysticism" in Transformers. I don't mind Unicron and Primus, and the idea that all the Transformers have Sparks that are a piece of Primus, but I've never been a fan of the pantheon of 13 original Primes or the Point One Percenters or that some sort of crazy mad science is required to create multichangers or what have you.

Very much this. I even shudder a little bit with the idea of Unicron and Primus as God like beings. I even came up with an explanation for Transformers sparks that doesn't involve Primus as a deity with my fan-fiction that sparks were developed by the Quintessons by imprinting a 3D artificial neuro network into a plasma cloud using their Vector Sigma super computer. The Matrix itself is a data storage device with a super rare power source that interacts with the holder's neuro net to allow them access to the stored memory of the past Primes along with a bit of a power boost.
I do like the idea of them being living beings, but not because of some mystical power.

There's also my take that the Thirteen were just Quintesson-made prototypes (subject to the "glitch" that made them self-aware) rather than anything divine.

(As is Unicron himself; a "Gone Horribly Right" prototype of an AI-guided planet-destroying superweapon.)

As much as Super-Robot DNA is baked into Transformers from its origin, I've always wanted to see a more Real-Robot take on the franchise.

There is also a difference between something being literally divine, and something being only revered as divine.

With Beast Wars Neo finally subbed in English, turns out the Japanese G1 Unicron falls into the latter category rather than the former. Sure, he's immensely powerful and made from a supernatural energy, but still very much a mortal being, one who sought to become a god rather already being one. And it seems that by "become a god" he meant "become worshiped as a god", as he sought to merge with Cybertron to not only make it his new body, but to also make himself replace Vector Sigma as the god of the Transformers, as if he wanted the Transformer race to serve and worship him like a planetary megalomaniac, instead of him just wanting to eat them all like so many of his counterparts in Western TF media.

And now that I think about it, the Generations Selects manga that explored the backstory of Japanese G1 Primus kinda defanged Primus's divinity, too. Instead of him being a literal god like in the West, the Selects manga revealed him to have originally been an energy being who had life-giving powers, but also a seemingly mortal being since Primacron attempted to kill him at one point with just a giant cannon, and later both Primacron and the Quintessons would imprison Primus in various forms (an ape-like Pretender shell, and the Vector Sigma computer) to exploit his life-giving powers. And the more I think of it, that kinda makes frauds of the both of them, too, since it means they didn't actually have the power to properly create life on their own (though, we do see them make Tornedron and other lesser Quintessan beings later on, so they each probably just learned some things from their respective times of manipulating Primus's power, but I digress).

In a way, that Selects manga kinda took several things that were originally seen as naturally godlike and exposed them as being anything but, meaning they're just revered as such without truly being divine after all. I dunno if that was the manga's intention, but it's kinda funny how it turned out that way.

 

[Thunderclash]

FIRRIB.

FIBRIR

 

[Blot]

Continuity problems don't need to be explained away.

We don't need in-universe explanations for real-world inconsistencies.

- Coming up with explanations for continuity errors/inconsistencies years down the line is dumb as hell and I pretty much consider all that jive to be non-canon. If it ain't shown in the show proper, then it don't fuckin matter to me as far as canonicity goes.

Ask Vector Prime was a mistake.

 

[lastmaximal]

Yyyyeah.

It was a lot of fun at first, but that didn't last very long before it was overtaken by "I'm gonna write in the wiki from here" energy. The whole question and answer format very quickly began to feel like fix fic theater.

At least, I guess, most of the stuff was for the obscure-obscure corners of the fiction that was never going to be written about anyway? I mean, I GUESS that's a few shades less sad than that actual comic book shitting on Hot Rod for getting Prime killed in 1986 that got published and sold for real money. But it's not that different from it either, and in spirit it became harder to enjoy once that vibe became prominent and the writing occasionally crawled up its own ass.

But even then, reading that sounds a bit harsh, because I'm not actively bothered by this; I just tuned it out even then.

I don't know. I enjoy fan fiction, I enjoy adding to the lore, and I even don't mind some continuity arc welding. The Personal Canon thread is one of my favorites, so when we came back from the outage I consciously made a new one. But I occasionally just sigh ruefully when I'm reading a wiki entry and see the paragraph I'm reading is from an AVP bit.

 

[Princess Viola]

Honestly I think fandoms as a whole just need to accept that not everything needs to be explained or rationalized.

 

[The Mighty Mollusk]

Shattered Glass was fine as a one-time thing, but making a whole ongoing universe out of it killed the fun of the idea.

 

[Donocropolis]

There is also a difference between something being literally divine, and something being only revered as divine.

With Beast Wars Neo finally subbed in English, turns out the Japanese G1 Unicron falls into the latter category rather than the former. Sure, he's immensely powerful and made from a supernatural energy, but still very much a mortal being, one who sought to become a god rather already being one. And it seems that by "become a god" he meant "become worshiped as a god", as he sought to merge with Cybertron to not only make it his new body, but to also make himself replace Vector Sigma as the god of the Transformers, as if he wanted the Transformer race to serve and worship him like a planetary megalomaniac, instead of him just wanting to eat them all like so many of his counterparts in Western TF media.

And now that I think about it, the Generations Selects manga that explored the backstory of Japanese G1 Primus kinda defanged Primus's divinity, too. Instead of him being a literal god like in the West, the Selects manga revealed him to have originally been an energy being who had life-giving powers, but also a seemingly mortal being since Primacron attempted to kill him at one point with just a giant cannon, and later both Primacron and the Quintessons would imprison Primus in various forms (an ape-like Pretender shell, and the Vector Sigma computer) to exploit his life-giving powers. And the more I think of it, that kinda makes frauds of the both of them, too, since it means they didn't actually have the power to properly create life on their own (though, we do see them make Tornedron and other lesser Quintessan beings later on, so they each probably just learned some things from their respective times of manipulating Primus's power, but I digress).

In a way, that Selects manga kinda took several things that were originally seen as naturally godlike and exposed them as being anything but, meaning they're just revered as such without truly being divine after all. I dunno if that was the manga's intention, but it's kinda funny how it turned out that way.

My head cannon is that Primus and Unicron were cosmic-level energy beings (not gods, just very powerful beings) battling across dimensions/planes of existence more-or-less as described in the G1 Marvel comics. Primus "ended" the fight by trapping both of them inside planetoids in the physical universe. Over time, both managed to gain control over the matter around them. Unicron started gathering more matter and energy into himself to attempt to grow stronger and defeat Primus once and for all.

Primus molded his planetoid into early Cybertron, put himself into an unconscious state, and allowed parts of himself to break off and animate bits of the planet as the Cybertronian race. The idea being that each "spark" would grow and strengthen as the Cybertronian lived, eventually coming back to Primus as the individual died, slowly making Primus himself strong enough to defeat Unicron once and for all.

At some point, the Quintessons discovered and conquered Cybertron, enslaving the Cybertronians and selling them as robotic servants accross the galaxy. Since the natural process of sparks splitting off from Primus and naturally animating new individuals was too slow to keep up with demand, the Quintessons found a way to tap into Primus's energy directly, creating Vector Sigma that could create new sparks on demand. During this era, the Cybertronians were split into seperate product lines and the tendancy to create multiple copies of the same body became common.

Meanwhile, Primacron the mad scientist came accross the Unicron planetoid. Primacron was intrigued by the planet's limited ability to sense it's surroundings and move of it's own volition, Primacron rebuilt the planetoid into the transforming robot planet Unicron.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

Unicron works fine when he's eased into the story in slow motion. He doesn't work when he's just an interruption o ongoing events.

So he rarely works. Armada is somehow still the gold standard.

 

[Tuxedo Prime]

Shattered Glass was fine as a one-time thing, but making a whole ongoing universe out of it killed the fun of the idea.

Multiple universes, now!

I know that there had been a fan-written "mirror Transformers G1" series that got (eventually -- they rode out the interest as long as they could) displaced by the Shattered Glass Mania, which is a bit of a shame as they had a few different takes on the concepts.

Still, I had fun describing the jive-talking Soundwave created by Picard42 and PerceptorTFWW (the one with the TFWW) as hailing from "Shattered World's Worst continuity". Because if everyone's going to run with that tag, then why not?

 

[unluckiness]

Pack in comics/manga never happened.

Convention/Club Exclusive fiction only matter as a way to explain that year's smattering of unrelated repaints.

Toy/comic bios mean nothing if all the character does is be crowdfiller.

Robots that don't transform and/or combine are a waste of time, ergo Action Masters are at best a repaint option for proper transforming toys.

Putting a peg on a chunk of altmode does not make it an shield.

Clear windows > painted windows > some windows are clear some are painted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same window is part painted and part clear

 

[CoffeeHorse]

Just turning every square into a hexagon does not "modernize" a design.

 

[Sabrblade]

Action Masters did nothing wrong.

Robots that don't transform and/or combine are a waste of time, ergo Action Masters are at best a repaint option for proper transforming toys.

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

 

[Platypus Prime]

But if I don't rashly rationalize my irrational rationalizations, I get a rash...

Probably psychosomatic.

Also, I think Botbots should have had Rumble and Frenzy guest star as part of the 'food' teams, so Rumble could be bread and Frenzy could be stew.

 

[unluckiness]

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

I agree that they did nothing wrong.

They just did even less right.