Harris-Walz / Dems

wonko the sane?

You may test that assumption at your convinience.
Citizen
 

Pocket

jumbled pile of person
Citizen
Also, and I can't believe I'm the first one to bring this up, Hillary had way more actual political experience. She had sat on various committees, was a senator for eight years, and then Secretary of State. Being married to a former President seems to be Michelle's only real achievement so far.
 

Rhinox

too old for this
Citizen
The biggest issue Hillary has is that other women hate her. Especially red state women. For any reason you can imagine, none them what I would call valid. The second Michelle becomes a political threat, the right wing will unleash their media arsenal on her and soon the same would happen. Except it would happen quicker because we have a population that's become used to having their opinions spoon fed to them and, hate to say it, she's black. There's no escaping that being a black woman will absolutely hurt her in many red states.
I know, I hate that too, I don't like acknowledging that such attitudes exist, but its there and ignoring it will not do anyone any favors.

I believe there is at least one more debate. Biden better be prepared and have his midafternoon nap beforehand. A better performance in the second will end this discussion.
 

wonko the sane?

You may test that assumption at your convinience.
Citizen
No it won't, because media bias will not change for the next debate: biden has to achieve, and trump only has to turn up.

Will biden do better? Absolutely. Will he win it? In the technical sense, absolutely. Will trump claim he won and mainstream media will support that lie? Absolutely.

And it changes NOTHING. Biden will win in november, because the issues are so much ******* bigger than two ******* debates. And if you don't believe me: ask Alan Lichtman. He's called it for biden, and the dude hasn't been wrong about this... ever.
 

G.B.Blackrock

Well-known member
Citizen
Well, now I want to see her birth certificate too.

The point to that statement being: republicans do not need to find a reason and will literally manufacture an excuse; the guy who set that standard is still running for office. And it doesn't matter who is running.
No one cares about winning over the Republicans. The only thing that matters is winning over the sliver of "undecideds" in the battleground states. Among THOSE people, Michelle Obama would be far more electable than Hilary Clinton was even on her best day.

None of this matters, of course. I agree with those who've pointed out why Michelle wouldn't ever do it.
 

wonko the sane?

You may test that assumption at your convinience.
Citizen
And my point was: it doesn't matter who runs for the democrats; republicans will smear them regardless.
 

The Mighty Mollusk

Scream all you like, 'cause we're all mad here
Citizen
Winning over hardcore Republicans is like trying to train my mom's cats to perform Hamlet. I could talk and argue and yell and scream until my throat ruptures, they'll just keep licking their asses and ignore me because they don't care.
 

Paladin

Well-known member
Citizen
FDR just sat up from his grave, saw the current discourse and felt ANOTHER terrific headache...
 

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Pocket

jumbled pile of person
Citizen
All this discourse over whether Biden is fit to run or not and whether it's hurting his chances to win in November is likely to be a self-fulfilling prophecy if anything. In fact, I'll even call it: if he does manage to lose, I will pin 100% of the blame on the people who are constantly on TV screaming about how he should drop out.
 

The Mighty Mollusk

Scream all you like, 'cause we're all mad here
Citizen
Trying to market Trump as a leader is failing even among his own party, so the strategy now is to make Biden look worse.

Because, I guess, being old and having a stutter is somehow worse than 34 felony convictions(so far), an inability to hold a coherent thought, much less an honest one, from one end of a sentence to the next, well-known ties to various foreign dictators, fomenting an attempted insurrection.......I could go on, but we all know already.
 

Ungnome

Grand Empress of the Empire of One Square Foot.
Citizen
Essentially the Republicans are saying "Our guy may be a literal monster but at least he's not an octogenarian with a speech impediment." Worst part of that is that a large portion of the population is buying it......
 

Axaday

Well-known member
Citizen
Also, and I can't believe I'm the first one to bring this up, Hillary had way more actual political experience. She had sat on various committees, was a senator for eight years, and then Secretary of State. Being married to a former President seems to be Michelle's only real achievement so far.

Right. Nepotism is the only thing we are talking about here. I have seen her do interviews alone. She's intelligent and likable and communicates well and is nationally recognized. That's all. There are hundreds of people you could pick with those qualifications. If you think she is ready to be President it is because you think her husband will help her. That's actually kind of demeaning to her and is definitely sidestepping the term limit rule. She is writing books and producing movies now and she's successful at it. That's what she needs to keep doing.
 

Axaday

Well-known member
Citizen
The biggest issue Hillary has is that other women hate her. Especially red state women. For any reason you can imagine, none them what I would call valid.

Oh, this subject is complex and fraught with peril. I think the main thing, obviously, is feminism that has done some work, but not completed it. It is interesting that so much of the world has had women leading democracies and the United States I think still has some time to go unless Kamala inherits it. And maybe that would be the thing to break the ceiling?

Just looking across my lifetime, you can see a lot of different solutions to the equation of how a man becomes electable as President. Nixon has been so strong as President, but corrupt. Jimmy Carter was smart and honest, Reagan was steady and charismatic and so popular that HW got to be a sequel. Clinton was smart, but also cool. W seemed like you could have a beer with him. Obama was inspiring and focused. Trump was a 1%er who had the little guy's back. Biden was a career statesman.

There are not so many solutions for women and I am not sure how to profile the woman who will both win her party's primary and then win the general election. It is easy to suppose that all else being equal, being a woman would be a secret weapon in the states that are hard to turn. But men and women have strongly supported men who they didn't like for all of the reasons in the previous paragraph and I don't think they'll vote for a woman they don't like. Sexism is certainly sitting at the table, but when I went on vacation to Washington, DC about 20 years ago, I was in the hallway of a Senate office building to get tickets to tour the Capitol. Hillary Clinton walked down the hall all by herself and passed within a few feet of me and never gave any outward sign that she knew I was there. She wasn't on the phone, she wasn't talking to anyone, she wasn't moving quickly. I was with a few people and she just didn't care that other human beings were there. Just a few minutes later on the way out, we met Ted Kennedy coming the other way. He was walking with half a dozen people I didn't recognize. Aides, I guess. He smiled and nodded to us. Maybe he was just a more savvy politician. That wouldn't be nothing. But I actually think that for whatever anyone thinks of the guy's politics, he genuinely liked people. And Hillary doesn't. She isn't even good at pretending. I think people (men AND women) can overlook that in a man and are not ready to overlook it in a woman.

By start contrast, Sarah Palin seems like a lot of fun. She is energetic and chatty and not uptight at all. She didn't seem smart at all. No foreign policy experience, but she'd been governor of a State. She was George W Bush. But it didn't work, because America wasn't buying it.

Kamala Harris reminds me of Hillary. She succeeded in becoming Vice President, so she's the most successful so far. But I really am not sure why she got the nomination and I am doubtful that she contributed to the win. She was an early dropout in the primary because she just didn't have a following. Maybe Biden had worked with her and genuinely thought she was the best qualified. I uncynically say that I think Biden wanted a woman running mate and not simply to draw votes but because he really felt that a woman deserved a shot at it. He put a lot of women into leadership positions in his administration and sent one to the Supreme Court, AFTER he'd won the election. I haven't been a very good spectator, but right now all I can remember is that Biden put Kamala on the border early on and she didn't impress. She hasn't made a headline positive or negative. But listen. She's the dang Vice President of the United States, a former state Attorney General and Senator. Her resume lacks nothing. People who know only one part of her job description know she is supposed to replace Joe if he needs to be replaced. But Joe had a bad debate and people thing he needs to be replaced and I haven't been hearing people in power saying Kamala should get the nomination and I think it is a fair bet that they would if she were a man. Isn't the VP the really obvious choice?
 
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Covert Agent Rodimal

Active member
Citizen
(Cool. I got some good discussion out of that one). I'm in Montana, but I'm an independent constitutionalist. I honestly think the whole system is broken.

Anyway, Michelle Obama disliking and staying out of politics would make her a more interesting candi and a better pick than Hillary Clinton, imo. She's well liked, articulate, and is outside the current administration and political clusterhug that is our government. Besides the collective apoplexy that it would send hardline Republicans into would be fantastic.

Not sure about the constitutional thing. Don't think anyone had contemplated it being a problem before 2016 and since Clinton didn't win, it didn't end up being put to the test.

On another note, I firmly believe to this day that the only reason Trump got elected in 2016 is because most of the country didn't want Hillary Clinton has president. He'd have lost to pretty much anyone else.
 

Pale Rider

...and Hell followed with him.
Citizen
Experience no longer seem to be a prerequisite for the job. That ship sailed in 2016.
 

Axaday

Well-known member
Citizen
On another note, I firmly believe to this day that the only reason Trump got elected in 2016 is because most of the country didn't want Hillary Clinton has president. He'd have lost to pretty much anyone else.

Yeah. He didn't even think he would win. But it came down to him and Hillary and they couldn't BOTH lose.
 

DefaultOption

Sourball
Citizen
On another note, I firmly believe to this day that the only reason Trump got elected in 2016 is because most of the country didn't want Hillary Clinton has president.
Three million more people voted for Hillary Clinton than did for Trump. The only reason she lost was because we have the asinine Electoral College which gives more deference to dirt than people.
 

Pocket

jumbled pile of person
Citizen
That's still way fewer people than the landslide Trump deserved to be buried in. A race between him and a garden weasel should have left him buried in a landslide.
 


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