In Space No One Can Hear You Scream: An Alien thread

[Caldwin]

There was a "Romulus" specific thread 3 pages in, But I just wanted an Aliens general thread.

I just bought Alien Romulus digitally from Amazon. So now I'm going to eat supper, turn the lights off and...and...please be good. Please be good. Please be good. Haven't us Alien fans suffered enough? Please be good.

I’d take AVP bad over the incomprehensible side quests Prometheus and Covenant were TBH.

This was...okay. There were some beats that were a bit too similar to previous movies and a few lines that were ripped wholesale.

Spoiler

They were still trying to do that whole genetic modification thing that really got it's start in Resurrection. I don't why they have to keep doing the whole hybrid thing. This makes me more afraid that they going more with the Prometheus lifecycle and mov more and more away from what was established with Aliens and beyond. Queen -> egg -> facehugger -> xenomorph seems to be loosing more and more ground to....whatever the hell this life cycle is Prometheus has rammed down our throats. It's like they still haven't realized fans didn't like Prometheus.

And the way the scientists made an entire space station full of aliens from that one alien from the Nostromo...yeah!

I enjoyed watching it...mostly. But after writing that spoiler section, I get the sinking feeling the more I think about it, the more I'm going to wind up hating it and just be done with the Alien franchise altogether.

I'll just stick to rewatching Aliens forever. Aside from a couple matte shots it holds up just fine today. Creature effects have not evolved past Stan Winston's work. Scifi guns have not evolved past James Cameron's work. Cameras have evolved a lot but I think better picture clarity would be actively harmful in this case.

Like, then quote so I can give it another thumbs up.

What are you talking about? The franchise stopped after Aliens.

If only!

3 was okay if you ignore Sigourney Weaver's character was supposed to be Ripley.

3 was three or four half-finished scripts shuffled together and trying to pretend there was a single story in there.

It's okay as a movie. But it always bugged me that it made the last 10 minutes of the previous movie completely pointless and decannonized all of the Dark Horse comics to that point.

And everything Prometheus and after flies in the face of the alien life cycle set up in Aliens because Ridley Scott had a "a queen wasn't my original intent" tantrum even though the only scene that eludes to his original intention was left on the cutting room floor.

Sorry, but if a sequel comes out that goes against something that was edited out of the original movie, put your big boy pants on and suck it up. A movie that actually came out matters more than something that was left on the cutting room floor.

The whole Alien lifecycle from Prometheus on may be interesting and horrifying...but it totally flies in the face of what has been established and I just...hugging hate it!

i don’t mind retconning the alien life cycle per se just we spend two movies faffing around with Temu Aliens when they could have just said the black goo did it.

Weirdly enough, William Gibson's second-draft Alien 3 script (which he suspects the producers intended to "high-grade" for cyberpunk trappings) works a bit better than it might have if we accept the Prometheus origin.

At script's end, Bishop describes the xenomorph genetic structure as analogous to antimatter in relation to carbon-based life/regular matter. Which describes, if imperfectly, the Engineer ampules effect as seen in Prometheus and Covenant.

As well, a scientist for the Union of Progressive Peoples (a Neo-Stalinist colony bloc opposing corporatized space such as seen in American or Anglo-Japanese off-Earth expansion) suggests that the xenomorph may be "the end product of someone else's genetic arms race, rather than a naturally developed organism from some hellworld (as was suggested by the tentatively accepted theory that what research Weyland -Yutani could retain).

No-one could have known at the time, of course....

I get why Ridley Scott would be bitter that someone else's vision ended up dominating something he started. But having to watch his creation develop a lifecycle he never envisioned is kinda the most appropriate way this could have turned out.

Retconning comic books should just be expected with movies that have comic book adaptations/continuations.

Like even if they insist 'THESE ARE CANON, THESE ARE THE ACTUAL CONTINUATION OF THE STORY' understand that they're only canon until an actual film sequel gets made because only the most hardcore fans of the franchise are going to even buy and read them and filmmakers are not going to hold themselves to maintaining canon with comic books that probably 99% of the audience going to see the film has never even read in their life.

Just thought I'd move this here so the Random thread could get back on topic.

There was one more thing that really bugs me about Romulus.

Spoiler: Where they got the Alien

The got the Alien body from amongst the wreckage of the Nostromo. But the Alien wasn't on the Nostromo. It was on the escape shuttle. By the time Ripley blew it out of the airlock, the shuttle was far enough away from the Nostromo to make the big ass explosion amount to little more than slight turbulence...and then some. They should not have been able to retrieve the alien from among the Nostromo wreakage.

Now yes, the alien also had a nest on the Nostromo...according to some cut content. But let's just say that cut content is cannon to this movie. Well then you pretty much also have to count Ripley burning the nest to hell with a flamethrower as cannon.

Now, I'm not saying that Wayland Yutani couldn't find the alien body somewhere out in space and have the movie run exactly as it did. Given the Alien physiology put forth even in the very first movie, they could very well find it alive. I'm just saying that the odds of the body being among the Nostromo wreckage just doesn't seem right.

 

[Axaday]

There is the one science-y reason that in space no one can hear you scream and then there is also another one. You can't do it.

 

[unluckiness]

i prefer the idea of Alien as an anthology anyway. The alien is basically just an animal. No need to explain its origin or for events to be directly connected between movies. It’d be like if Jaws had an explanation for why the shark eats people and the survivor of the last movie shows up in the later movies instead of living life on dry land.

oh wait

 

[Dake]

I finally watched Romulus the other day and yeah, it was just ok. Certainly better than the last couple entrants in the franchise, but nothing groundbreaking. I'd call it their attempt at a "The Force Awakens" for the franchise. Honestly my biggest WTF moment was: WY sends a shuttle to go pick up the xenomorph and establishes an entire space station around its study. They somehow breed facehuggers which have never come from a plain old xenomorph (are we supposed to assume the shuttle swung by LV426 and grabbed some eggs too?), then proceed to lose control of the station (because of course they do. Though if the scientists of Prometheus are anything to go by, they truly have some of the worst safety/security protocols of anything short of a late-eighteen-hundreds coal mine). Then, having gone through all of that trouble, they just leave the station to drift so that it can be stumbled upon by a handful of blue-collar workers. It's all just so bad.

I did enjoy the retro-future aesthetic though. They did a good job replicating that NASA-core look and sound from the original.

Ultimately, I've never minded the idea that the xenomorphs were bioweapons, but the simpler answer has always been they're just another random species in the galaxy. It feels like ever since Aliens, Ridley Scott has tried to "take back" the war movie aesthetic that Cameron was so successful with and every attempt just points out how contrived the whole thing becomes.

On a side note, it's probably worth at least putting "Alien" in the thread title for the search function.

 

[Caldwin]

Fair enough. I just didn want to call it "Alien" because that title could be a thread of several different things and probably would have been more confusing. Maybe could've called it Xenomorph, but that just sounds pretentious.

 

[Fero McPigletron]

The furthest in the Alien timeline is Aliens 4, right? So Winona Ryder is the most advanced version of android there is?

 

[Caldwin]

Alien 4 is the latest in the timeline. Been a while since I've seen it, though. Other than the fact that she was made a couple hundred years later, I couldn't really say what about her makes her more advanced.

 

[unluckiness]

Alien resurrection was stupid and I don’t know what the point was. Few good Alien scenes but otherwise garbage.

 

[Caldwin]

While very much true, still better than Prometheus.

 

[Echowarrior]

Okay, let me preface this by saying that I am not a big fan of the Alien franchise. That being said, I have seen several of the films in the series, so I do have some thoughts.

First, the original film is a very competently-made movie. Given the development history and how many people were involved, I'm honestly surprised that it was as good a film as it is.

Aliens is an excellent sequel, easily as good as the first. James Cameron made the very smart decision to not copy the first film, alongside many other good decisions. Sure, some things were different, but it's not very hard to explain the differences based on the information at hand.

Alien 3...do I need to elaborate on how much of a mess this movie was? The actors did the best they could. The writers and director did the best they could. It added to the lore, sure, but...good lord, I find this movie depressing.

Resurrection...meh. Had some bright points, but still, meh.

I haven't seen Prometheus, Covenant or Romulus, but I've heard quite a bit, and I do have some thoughts. As far as the first two, I think maybe someone should've dialed back Ridley Scott's creative control. I'm not saying that he didn't give us some good stuff - David is a compelling character from everything I've heard - but he seems dead set on making the Xenomorph invincible and David into an unbeatable evil, and I'd rather not have that. Romulus...well, it's done well, and it's revived interest in the franchise, so hey, maybe it's done the same thing for these films that Prey did for the Predator films.

As for the franchise overall? I can't help but think that it's tapped into a strong anti-corporate sentiment. I know, big surprise, but let's be honest, every bit of suffering in these movies is because the Big Evil Corporation wants to make money rather than wipe out the nasty alien monsters. And the corporation just keeps on going...

Though since I'm here, does anyone follow Alien Theory on Youtube? They have some good stuff there.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

Every once in a while I have to rewatch Aliens just to remind myself that I'm not grading it on a curve. It isn't just the best film in this franchise. It's a genuine masterpiece. Aside from 2 or 3 matte shots it hasn't aged a day.

 

[unluckiness]

Most sequels go for the first movie but bigger. Aliens being a COD campaign in space really sets it apart.

 

[Haywire]

I like Aliens, it was a worthy follow-up to the first. The other movies, not so much. Gonna leave this here, though; definitely feels like there was some inspiration from the classic 50s giant critter film, Them!:

 

[CoffeeHorse]

James Cameron learned from Roger Corman, so 1950s bug movies are probably a happy place for him.

 

[Haywire]

Yeah, not meaning it as a knock on Aliens or Cameron; I really like Them! and similar movies, and I actually approve of films that recognize the film history they descend from.

 

[DefaultOption]

Most sequels go for the first movie but bigger. Aliens being a COD campaign in space really sets it apart.

Going to a different genre for the sequel was a bold move.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

It starts out as the 'reality ensues' epilogue to Alien. You can't expect that tiny escape pod to be noticed all that quickly. Space is big. You can't expect the company to not have questions about what happened to their freighter and its cargo.

Then with the lingering plot threads tied up, it actually kinda does the typical horror movie sequel thing. Some new crop of unlucky characters encounter the monster and experience the first movie but bigger. What's different here is the whole retread takes place offscreen instead of being the focus of the movie. We then skip to the aftermath of that.

It then turns into the most character-driven bug hunt ever.

 

[unluckiness]

It knows that the creature in the horror movie isn't as scary the second time around and it just escalates into action and suspense. Jason has like twenty movies and still hasn't learned that lesson.

 

[Ultra Magnus13]

There was a "Romulus" specific thread 3 pages in, But I just wanted an Aliens general thread.




























Just thought I'd move this here so the Random thread could get back on topic.

There was one more thing that really bugs me about Romulus.

Spoiler: Where they got the Alien

The got the Alien body from amongst the wreckage of the Nostromo. But the Alien wasn't on the Nostromo. It was on the escape shuttle. By the time Ripley blew it out of the airlock, the shuttle was far enough away from the Nostromo to make the big ass explosion amount to little more than slight turbulence...and then some. They should not have been able to retrieve the alien from among the Nostromo wreakage.

Now yes, the alien also had a nest on the Nostromo...according to some cut content. But let's just say that cut content is cannon to this movie. Well then you pretty much also have to count Ripley burning the nest to hell with a flamethrower as cannon.

Now, I'm not saying that Wayland Yutani couldn't find the alien body somewhere out in space and have the movie run exactly as it did. Given the Alien physiology put forth even in the very first movie, they could very well find it alive. I'm just saying that the odds of the body being among the Nostromo wreckage just doesn't seem right.

Spoiler

I'm not an expert on space physics, but I think it's reasonable enough by " movie space physics" after the explosion the debris would have kept moving away from the center of the explosion until acted on by something with enough mass to have gravity capable of effecting it. Once the debris field reached Big Chap he would have likely been hit by enough debris to impart momentum to him to keep pace with the bulk of the debris field.

Alt theory, he may have just literally latched onto the debris to build his little cocoon, being able to intuit that his odds of getting found would be better with the wreckage.

I finally watched Romulus the other day and yeah, it was just ok. Certainly better than the last couple entrants in the franchise, but nothing groundbreaking. I'd call it their attempt at a "The Force Awakens" for the franchise. Honestly my biggest WTF moment was: WY sends a shuttle to go pick up the xenomorph and establishes an entire space station around its study. They somehow breed facehuggers which have never come from a plain old xenomorph (are we supposed to assume the shuttle swung by LV426 and grabbed some eggs too?), then proceed to lose control of the station (because of course they do. Though if the scientists of Prometheus are anything to go by, they truly have some of the worst safety/security protocols of anything short of a late-eighteen-hundreds coal mine). Then, having gone through all of that trouble, they just leave the station to drift so that it can be stumbled upon by a handful of blue-collar workers. It's all just so bad.

I did enjoy the retro-future aesthetic though. They did a good job replicating that NASA-core look and sound from the original.

Ultimately, I've never minded the idea that the xenomorphs were bioweapons, but the simpler answer has always been they're just another random species in the galaxy. It feels like ever since Aliens, Ridley Scott has tried to "take back" the war movie aesthetic that Cameron was so successful with and every attempt just points out how contrived the whole thing becomes.

On a side note, it's probably worth at least putting "Alien" in the thread title for the search function.

Spoiler

"The company should know about the Xeno", "why don't They go back to get samples/eggs etc" argument almost always has the same solution. Just as the company is alway looking out for itself, every exec in the company is as well. THEY want to be the one to capture and capitalize on the Xeno. They will only tell the bare minimum amount of people to try to accomplish this. They want to be able to claim as much of the monetary gain and glory, and use it to climb the corporate ladder. Limited knowledge of there attempts also helps insulate them from the failure within the company, and gives them plausible deniability outside the company.

This movie helps reclaim the "black goo" from Prometheus and Covenant and re-establish the Xeno as the "perfect organism"

In those movies it was originally implied that the goo was a product of the Engineers, that they used to seed planets with life. This is humanities origin, and then humanity creates "life" in David, the synthetic.

David then manipulates the goo to created life in the form of the Xeno.

The implication from Romulus is that the goo was something the Engineers found, and harnessed to increase there abilities as Rook suggested he wanted to do for humanity. They were successful for a time, before much of there civilization fell.

The goo can more or less mutate genetic material to rapidly adapt it, but ultimately it finds its way back to the Xeno/Facehugger form and likely has this info encoded into it. The Facehuggers were being made because they produce black goo, and he could harvest it to use as raw material.

Alien resurrection was stupid and I don’t know what the point was. Few good Alien scenes but otherwise garbage.

Aliens swimming is about the only good thing to come from it.

 

[Caldwin]

I dunno. Brad Dorif making kissy faces to a xenomorph through a glass window is something that totally happened.