Is that video of Bibi fabricated or being mistranslated in some way?
Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Teufel
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In general, on TRT it could easily be either, or both. In this particular case, the clip is real but their summary is false.
Netanyahu was talking in the middle of the Second Intifada, when he was not in government, and when Israel was getting regular suicide bombings inside civilian targets. He said "We should strike back painfully," which should shock somewhere between zero and negative-1 people on Earth. He was not saying he would "undermine" the Oslo Accords - he said (correctly) that Oslo had said Israel could keep "military sites" in the West Bank, but it did not define what those were, and so he urged they take the broadest possible interpretation of what a military site could be.
It is, as the kids say, a nothingburger.
Netanyahu was talking in the middle of the Second Intifada, when he was not in government, and when Israel was getting regular suicide bombings inside civilian targets. He said "We should strike back painfully," which should shock somewhere between zero and negative-1 people on Earth. He was not saying he would "undermine" the Oslo Accords - he said (correctly) that Oslo had said Israel could keep "military sites" in the West Bank, but it did not define what those were, and so he urged they take the broadest possible interpretation of what a military site could be.
It is, as the kids say, a nothingburger.
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At about 00:40, that video says Gazans have 2-3 liters of water per day, and it's polluted too.
Let's bear that in mind as we look at some images of Gaza that weren't meant for Western eyes.
Here's an astounding video from 2017, that I hope every single person in this thread will watch. It was made after at least 3 major rounds of conflict in Gaza, including Operation Protective Edge in 2014 that was discussed at long and angry length here.
It was also made years after the United Nations began to warn Gaza would become "uninhabitable" by 2020:
time.com
Were they lying? Exaggerating? Didn't know what they were talking about? Or was there a Palestinian Thanos Snap that eliminated them four years ago, nobody noticed, and actually there's no one left for Israel to kill? These are the expert sources we are supposed to trust when judging the conflict today. How much water has Gaza really had all this time? Who can we trust?
en.m.wikipedia.org
en.m.wikipedia.org
www.tripadvisor.com
www.letsbookhotel.com
Let's bear that in mind as we look at some images of Gaza that weren't meant for Western eyes.
Here's an astounding video from 2017, that I hope every single person in this thread will watch. It was made after at least 3 major rounds of conflict in Gaza, including Operation Protective Edge in 2014 that was discussed at long and angry length here.
It was also made years after the United Nations began to warn Gaza would become "uninhabitable" by 2020:
Gaza Could Become 'Uninhabitable' by 2020, U.N. Report Warns
"Reconstruction efforts are extremely slow relative to the magnitude of devastation"
Were they lying? Exaggerating? Didn't know what they were talking about? Or was there a Palestinian Thanos Snap that eliminated them four years ago, nobody noticed, and actually there's no one left for Israel to kill? These are the expert sources we are supposed to trust when judging the conflict today. How much water has Gaza really had all this time? Who can we trust?
As-Sadaka - Wikipedia
Crazy Water Park - Wikipedia
AL MASHTAL HOTEL - Reviews (Gaza City, Palestinian Territories)
Al Mashtal Hotel, Gaza City: See 14 traveler reviews, 19 candid photos, and great deals for Al Mashtal Hotel, ranked #4 of 7 hotels in Gaza City and rated 3 of 5 at Tripadvisor.
www.tripadvisor.com
Budapest Chalet in Gaza, Palestinian Territory - Lets Book Hotel
Find deals at Budapest Chalet, Gaza. Best Rates Guranteed. No booking costs. Pay at hotel. Making your reservation at Budapest Chalet is easy and secure. Instant confirmation.
Aside from the fact that the words "uninhabitable" and "unliveable" are certainly hyperbole (climate predictions saying tropical areas could become "uninhabitable" in this century don't mean that no people would be living there either), they said "could".It was also made years after the United Nations began to warn Gaza would become "uninhabitable" by 2020:
Gaza Could Become 'Uninhabitable' by 2020, U.N. Report Warns
"Reconstruction efforts are extremely slow relative to the magnitude of devastation"
Were they lying? Exaggerating? Didn't know what they were talking about? Or was there a Palestinian Thanos Snap that eliminated them four years ago, nobody noticed, and actually there's no one left for Israel to kill? These are the expert sources we are supposed to trust when judging the conflict today. How much water has Gaza really had all this time? Who can we trust?
The most precise sentence quoted there is "The social, health and security-related ramifications of the high population density and overcrowding are among the factors that may render Gaza unliveable by 2020, if present trends continue".
Honestly, I just can't see/hear "we can't trust the experts because a worst-case scenario warning was not a 100% accurate prophecy" and not immediately recognize it as the favorite fallacy of climate change deniers.
As for your specific "counterexamples":
1. They're all for the wealthy (and/or foreigners) (inequality doesn't mean the average people are doing fine, it just reapportions the blame)
2. Stuff built in 2010 doesn't disprove that things got worse after that (again, at most they deserve a share of the blame for why things got worse)
I'd say the Rapture is a better match. We were assured these people would disappear, then, whoops, nm.
We should only be so lucky to have a dispute over hard science principles known since the 1850s which function the same for everyone in the world and which any 3rd grader can independently demonstrate with common household ingredients. Instead we are talking about life in a closed society with no free press, run by a religious fundamentalist fascist army, as analyzed by foreign charity groups with minimal accountability and in many cases a documented history of hostility and bad faith towards one or another of the sides.
I also seem to remember that North Korea, a so-called "poor" country, has a luxury hotel or two, luxury shops and other such amenities. Things the "corrupt regime/ignorant western press" seem unable to acknowledge.
This obviously means that North Korea is obviously doing "just fine" and its people aren't starving to death.
That's why all the links below are obviously just "ignorant propaganda", right? They can't all be right.
Right?
www.amnesty.org
www.aljazeera.com
www.aljazeera.com
www.newscientist.com
www.anera.org
This obviously means that North Korea is obviously doing "just fine" and its people aren't starving to death.
That's why all the links below are obviously just "ignorant propaganda", right? They can't all be right.
Right?
The Occupation of Water
The legacy of Israel’s 50-year occupation of the Palestinian territories has been systematic human rights violations on a mass scale. One of its consequences is the impact of Israel’s discriminatory policies on Palestinians’ access to clean and safe water.
www.amnesty.org
Palestine runs dry: ‘Our water they steal and sell to us’
Israeli authorities refuse to grant licenses to Palestinian water authorities to dig more much-needed wells.
‘Uninhabitable place’: Gaza suffers with water 97% polluted
Human rights organisations have warned for years about the deteriorating water situation in the Gaza Strip.
Why the Gaza water crisis is decades in the making
The UN says approximately 2 million people in Gaza may soon run out of water because Israel has shut off supplies. Here's why the region is so vulnerable to water crises
www.newscientist.com
Addressing the Palestine Water Crisis | Anera
Anera helps families cope with the Palestine water crisis and improves water access in Lebanon's refugee camps. You can help.
www.anera.org
Obstacles to Arab-Israeli peace: Water
The BBC's Martin Asser looks at issues still dividing Arabs and Israelis.
www.bbc.com
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FB friend:
they aren't talking about the US army, tho. they're talking about IDF
The IDF has had international press from CNN, NBC, UK's Channel 4, and ABC with them in Gaza, so far under standards that don't seem any different than other past military embeds.
Why Are CNN, ABC, and NBC Reporters Embedding With the Israeli Military?
The news networks have been allowed to tag along with the Israel Defense Forces in Gaza—under certain conditions.
newrepublic.com
And it's not like they're censoring everything that doesn't show them in an absolutely positive light.
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Ironbite-Justify it.
The “stop cheering on civilian deaths, you bloodthirsty Zios” act doesn’t work. Because no one here has cheered on civilian deaths. Ever taken into account some of us were appalled by Hamas’ 7 October massacre because we feared the further bloodshed it’d inevitably lead to?
Also, that tweet gives us little to go on. It's an unaffiliated journalist providing no real details of the raid or the man's death and immediately following it up with another tweet "Israel is a rogue nation." I know expecting neutrality from journalists is passe by today's standards, and it doesn't mean an unarmed doctor wasn't killed by the IDF, but I prefer sources who aren't actively telling me what to think and proudly proclaiming their biased framing. He later posted a video interview with who is supposed to be the father providing an account of the shooting, but there are no logos and he never identified the source. He doesn't claim it's his video and skimming his timeline he doesn't seem to be based out of the West Bank and regularly posts videos from global hotspots with no sources given. As a general rule, unsourced videos from half a world away on social media confirming your priors are exactly the ones you should be most wary of. I don't speak Arabic, but upon watching the video noticed when the word "mujahideen" is clearly spoken nothing seems to correspond to it in the subtitles. Does that omission leave out any important context? Maybe an IDF sniper shot this doctor when he was trying to treat someone, but this isn't a credible news source making a case towards it or doing much to inform me one way or another.
One of the odd features of this conflict is some people on the left being highly skeptical and critical of anything Israel says while turning around and taking anything & everything from an anti-Israel perspective at face value and throwing all that skepticism right out the window.
One example.
Human Rights Watch repeating Hamas' Health Ministry propaganda about the al-Ahli hospital bombing claiming the Israelis murdred 500 people
Human Rights Watch reporting their findings after an actual investigation
It was a Palestinian rocket, not the IDF
The 500 person death toll was grossly exaggerated.
Hamas collected evidence from the crater and at different points since has said no evidence survived and also the evidence we'll release soon proves it was the IDF , besides we don't have rockets that could cause that damage anyway [they do.]
Sometimes it's okay to wait before having an opinion.
One of the odd features of this conflict is some people on the left being highly skeptical and critical of anything Israel says while turning around and taking anything & everything from an anti-Israel perspective at face value and throwing all that skepticism right out the window.
One example.
Human Rights Watch repeating Hamas' Health Ministry propaganda about the al-Ahli hospital bombing claiming the Israelis murdred 500 people
Human Rights Watch reporting their findings after an actual investigation
It was a Palestinian rocket, not the IDF
The 500 person death toll was grossly exaggerated.
Hamas collected evidence from the crater and at different points since has said no evidence survived and also the evidence we'll release soon proves it was the IDF , besides we don't have rockets that could cause that damage anyway [they do.]
Sometimes it's okay to wait before having an opinion.
I'd like to return the focus specifically to HRW's Omar Shakir, omnipresent spokesperson from one of the shifty and biased NGOs I referred to earlier. He said that Israel bombing the Al-Ahli hospital was as bad as any human rights crime he'd seen in 10+ years --
-- when, of course, he never saw it at all because it didn't happen.
And while that was widely known over a month ago, here's an interview with him FOUR DAYS AGO where he asserts or agrees (the fonts make it unclear) that the very first reports are still true and Israel still did it.
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Speaking of medical workers, and what is and isn't propaganda, here is a case I will never forget, one of the major instances that showed me just how deep and widespread antisemitism is among the "respectable" "experts" who we are supposed to rely on when interpreting what happens in a foreign and closed society.
The Lancet is the oldest and probably most respected medical journal in the entire world. There were past I/P discussions here when I would be the one citing them to give a sense of "balance" - to say things like "I know sometimes Israel goes too far, look what was described in The Lancet." Disagreeing with them would be like disagreeing with an encyclopedia. I believed in them. You don't NOT believe in The Lancet!
In the aftermath of Operation Protective Edge in 2014, they published a letter accusing Israel of war crimes as part of a totally unjustified campaign that was disproportionately killing women and children. And then, funny thing....
The Lancet is the oldest and probably most respected medical journal in the entire world. There were past I/P discussions here when I would be the one citing them to give a sense of "balance" - to say things like "I know sometimes Israel goes too far, look what was described in The Lancet." Disagreeing with them would be like disagreeing with an encyclopedia. I believed in them. You don't NOT believe in The Lancet!
In the aftermath of Operation Protective Edge in 2014, they published a letter accusing Israel of war crimes as part of a totally unjustified campaign that was disproportionately killing women and children. And then, funny thing....
In July, according to The Telegraph, the journal published a controversial “open letter to the people of Gaza” that strongly condemned Israel without mention of Hamas actions. The letter’s five primary authors claimed they had “no competing interests,” but The Telegraph notes that all five have campaigned vigorously in pro-Palestinian causes over the years, something the journal failed to make clear.
Particularly controversial was the fact that two of the letter’s authors, Dr. Paola Manduca and Dr. Swee Ang, also promoted a video by David Duke, a former Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. That information was revealed in a cache of emails openly available in Google groups, according to The Telegraph. Ang is an orthopedic surgeon in the UK while Manduca is a professor of genetics at the University of Genoa in Italy.https://www.splcenter.org/sites/def...-2014-09-22-at-12.11.01-PM-e1411481895874.png
Both sent round robin emails promoting a video titled “CNN Goldman Sachs and the Zio [sic] Matrix,” which was posted on Duke’s website Feb. 4, 2013 and claimed that a Jewish Zionist (or “Zio”) conspiracy controlled politics, media and finance. Duke finished his 15-minute presentation with the apocalyptic pronouncement that, “People are learning that globalist Zionist supremacism is the greatest single danger to the entire planet, to all human expressions of life and culture and heritage on the planet, to all nations and peoples who want to be free and independent.”
Ang reportedly wrote in her email accompanying the Duke video “This is a shocking video please watch. This is not about Palestine – it is about all of us!” She exhorted others to pass the video along, because “the whole world needs to know.”
When questioned about the video, Ang claimed that she didn’t know who Duke was, but was “concerned that if there was any truth in the video, that Jews control the media, politics and banking, what on earth is going on? I was worried.” She claims a friend made her aware of the video.
In addition to the Duke video, Manduca also forwarded a message in 2013 alleging that Jews were responsible for the Boston Marathon bombings, in which the email’s author stated, “Let us hope that someone in the FBI is smart enough to look more carefully at the clues in Boston and find the real culprits behind these bombings instead of buying the Zionist spin.”
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a perpetual struggle us progressive/libertarian leftists (aka anarcho-socialists/anarcho-communists, democratic socialists such as myself and basically everyone on the left that isn't a worthless authoritarian/tankie/nazbol piece of jive) face is kicking out antisemites. we don't want to become anything like the fashholes we're fighting.