I think some (Hasbro) released have had floppier joints than the later (possibly fixed) Takara versions, at least when Takara made their own versions of said figures.
(Potentially) Stolen Transformers (& the YouTubers that Review Them)
- Thread starter PrimalxConvoy
- Start date
Why should I care about what a multibillion dollar corporation does (or doesn’t do) about :checks notes: a YouTube reviewer?
Like, the world is literally dying, fascism is on the rise worldwide, 99% of the US populace has to work 2-3 jobs to even feel like they’re capable of *struggling*. I can scarcely think of anything that has less importance than stolen toy reviews on YouTube.
Like, the world is literally dying, fascism is on the rise worldwide, 99% of the US populace has to work 2-3 jobs to even feel like they’re capable of *struggling*. I can scarcely think of anything that has less importance than stolen toy reviews on YouTube.
Usually I don't participate in forums. Kinda thought they were an early 2000s thing that died off. However I created an account here to clarify and respond to some of this rhetoric here.
I created the videos linked within this thread. Im the host of the Tramsformers Talk Raw podcast on Youtube & Spotify. As far as why you should care, I couldn't tell you. What I can tell you is why I care, and that your stance and defense of these actions, I've heard probably 500 times over the past 4 or so years.
Firstly, we as people can only address and act against the wrongs we are able to act against. Neither you or I can solve world hunger or poverty or anything else you mentioned in your attempt to downplay, amd sidestep the issue at hand. Can you prevent fascism? Can you halt a natural disaster? What we *can* do is take action each and every time we see a wrong done before us. These particular sets of illegal activities are being done within the hobby and community I've enjoyed and been a part of for nearly 40 years. Which is why, in part, I care.
This issue doesn't regard a single YouTube reviewer, but a set of them, and a Hasbro contracted manufacturing facility allowing its own employees to lift and resell factory product. I won't begin to get into the massive amounts of negative effects this has upon not only our hobby, because I've spoken at length regarding them a dozen times in podcast segments. I refer you to them if you require an explanation of those matters.
My above response also addresses your comments.
Its still, technically, a two-year old petition. One which has over 250 signatures. Gotta start somewhere, and it's one of a few things we can do to actually take action against the wrongs continually being done within our hobby. A snowball gets larger when it rolls downhill friend. Better than complacency.
So, you’re telling us that we can’t actually do anything to stop the world’s ills (a statement I wholeheartedly disagree with), and instead ask us to care about this one “wrong,” then refuse to explain why it’s wrong, choosing to refer us to your podcast.
In the scope of the world and this hobby, I can’t even begin to express what a minuscule, inane, non-issue this is. Who is being harmed?
In the scope of Hasbro's business it's technically a loss, but it's well within the amount they expect and budget for.
Sometimes a whole shipping container ends up at the bottom of the Pacific. It happens. They know it happens. They budget for it. In comparison we're talking about a literal handful of toys smuggled out of the factory. This truly does not matter.
Sometimes a whole shipping container ends up at the bottom of the Pacific. It happens. They know it happens. They budget for it. In comparison we're talking about a literal handful of toys smuggled out of the factory. This truly does not matter.
Thats not what I stated at all. We can combat the things that we obviously can. And no more. But inject whatever narratives you'd like. Its all just to subvert whats at hand. If you'd like to know why theft is wrong I suggest you first ask the folks that raised you that question. And I dont mean that to be insulting, but I don't know how else to put it. Because either you're asking what you are to convolute things, or you're sincere regarding seeing theft, or the reception of stolen goods, as something morally and legally acceptable. I'm guessing it's merely the former.
I'm suggesting folks educate themselves on the issue, and all it takes is a small amount of research, and a bit of concern. I'm not about to educate one person at a time regarding these things. I reffered you to my podcast because Ive broken down the issue there, bit by bit, over multiple segments the past 2 or 3 years. The Slag Podcast, and the reviewer Super Robot Ed also have videos featuring the subject. My personal time is better spent where it will produce fruit, not banishing the ignorance of one or two willfully complacent individuals.
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Entirely subjective. And your further magnification of one wrong, in order to justify the other, doesn't contain any sense of rationality.
I believe my continued time here, as I stated before, is better spent elsewhere. If anyone here would like to cease sitting on thier thumbs and making excuses for clear and established illegal acts happening within our hobby:
- Call Hasbro continually as I have.
- Stop supporting content creators featuring stolen goods.
- Sign our Change.org petition.
Thanks to any Allspark staff for allowing this discourse, and for allowing myself to respond here in an attempt (albeit a half futile one) to clarify matters.
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Don't fall into the trap of conflating illegality with immorality.
And yet... here you are.
Subjective, yes, but I am an accountant and I'm giving you a view from that side of it. It's not that a bigger wrong justifies a smaller wrong. It's that both wrongs are part of an overall whole that is budgeted for. No one at Hasbro is figuring out how many Legacy Thundertrons were stolen at the factory, as opposed to rejected at QC, or lost during any leg of the shipping, and the CFO doesn't know what a Thundertron is. They assume that a certain amount of product will be lost for whatever reason, and they plan around that total, and the specific losses we're talking about are a negligible part of that total. We are talking about a few samples of Transformers Legacy product, out of a humongous number produced (a number probably not known with exact specificity to begin with), out of multiple ongoing Transformers lines, out of the unfathomable number of brands Hasbro owns.
It's just not that important.
umm no it clearly is important because these handful of stolen toys that get out and in the hands of leakers and reviewers are A WRONG AGAINST THE HOBBY!!!!!
Now THATS the first good point I've read here from the opposite side
Welcome to the boards. =)
It's not a big deal, but you might find it handy: The "+Quote" function in the lower-right of the posts allows you to queue up multiple posts to reply to, all at once. Handy for when you're going over several pages. When you're ready to use them, you can just click "Insert Quotes", remove any you don't want to include any more (like if someone else addressed something to your liking), and then hit "Quote Messages" to put them in the Reply field.
Plus, if you only want to address a part of a larger post, you can highlight that and choose to add it to the +Quote queue, or reply (with the quote) right away. =)
Again, not going to strike you down if you don't or anything, but it looked like something you might find handy.
Anyway, I'd need to go back over the thread (it's been dormant for nearly four months, and at 2:43am, I've really not got the time nor inclination to do it at this very moment) to be sure, but is there any real evidence of theft here? I've seen things like "they don't have the boxes," but then I look and see that oh, yeah, they do have the boxes. At least sometimes.
I'm no fan of thieves, but it is a pretty serious accusation, in my opinion.
But on the other hand, recent experiences have shown me that Hasbro doesn't seem to mind stealing from the consumer, so...
I tell you what I’m not going to do. I’m not going to “educate myself” on why it’s supposedly wrong for some some poor factory workers halfway around the world to take something insignificant from a bajillion dollar company. What an absolutely bizarre hill to die on.
If this was an issue you actually cared about, you might offer a single talking point other than “stealing is wrong,” instead of typing out all those excuses as to why you can’t offer anything.
Appreciate the tip, however, if I can at all help it, after this response I'll most likely not participate here further. For a few reasons, but mainly because I simply dont have the time between running various FB groups, managing my show, and real life. So I doubt it'll be helpful.
Again, I have entire segments of my podcast that go into great detail to show the amount of direct evidence we have indicating that PVP, and a few others, are directly purchasing stolen factory product. Since I doubt many here actually listen to the show, I'll summarize by stating:
- Yes, those stolen figures NEVER have the packaging. Because such packaging is printed in Canada, and since the product was lifted from one of Hasbros contracted factories in Vietnam....the product itself never saw packaging.
- We have direct instagram messages from the content creator "TonTon" to Protoman of the Slag Podcast directly implicating many, including PVP, of purchasing aforementioned stolen product.
- We have the fact that at least two of the content creators practicing (or have practiced) such things have actually admitted to such information. While the rest remain entirely silent when heavily questioned, on this matter.
- Kapow Toys (a UK based retailer) to thier everlasting credit, has publicly confirmed and acknowledged the actions of PvP.
- Hasbro themselves have never sent PvP any figure at all. Paramount has invited him to a screening. Robosan has invited him to promote one product. But Hasbro directly? Never. How do I know that? Because Hasbro themselves have DIRECTLY told me so.
These are just a few pieces of the great amount of evidence I'm certain the complacent will choose to either ignore, or attempt (keyword) to pick apart. They'll twist words, distort truths, and sidestep issues all with the singular intention of trying to sound compelling while remaining totally non-chalant.
That said, I HIGHLY encourage each Transformer fan and member of this community to listen to my show, examine all the evidence for themselves, and to take action with me. I wish each of you the best.
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Ah yes, more ignorance of the subject matter, and excuses I've heard 100 times. Those factory workers make more, and are treated far better than you imagine my friend. I have an entire segment dedicated to dispelling that common excuse for theft also. Did you know that Vietnam has one of the fastest growing economies on earth?
It's called due diligence sir. I've done my research. Do your own. Im not further interested in talking to another willfully complacent individual, set in thier own mind, and who refuses to put forth any effort to educate themselves whatsoever. Good day.
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It's kind of starting to feel like you popped into this thread to advertise your podcast. It's a discussion board, if you want to discuss something, discuss it. Otherwise it feels like you airdropped in to scold people and promote your work.
Regarding "The Vietnamese economy is doing well." What does that have to do with how much factory workers are paid? Like, the US economy is doing gangbusters, one of the best in the world, but worker wages are stagnant and inflation is high. There are people making minimum wage that's too little to live on, meanwhile corporations take advantage of migrant labor and use their immigration status as a means to pay them even less than minimum wage. Just because a countries economy is doing well doesn't mean the people at the bottom of the labor ladder are seeing benefits from it.
Do you have any sources for how much Vietnamese factory workers are paid, specifically, in relation to other jobs in the region and compared to wages in other countries?
Because maybe, just maybe, the reason the Vietnamese economy is doing so well is because of the fact there's lots of ridiculously cheap labor there and so companies are incentivized to move shop?
e.vnexpress.net
Regarding "The Vietnamese economy is doing well." What does that have to do with how much factory workers are paid? Like, the US economy is doing gangbusters, one of the best in the world, but worker wages are stagnant and inflation is high. There are people making minimum wage that's too little to live on, meanwhile corporations take advantage of migrant labor and use their immigration status as a means to pay them even less than minimum wage. Just because a countries economy is doing well doesn't mean the people at the bottom of the labor ladder are seeing benefits from it.
Do you have any sources for how much Vietnamese factory workers are paid, specifically, in relation to other jobs in the region and compared to wages in other countries?
Because maybe, just maybe, the reason the Vietnamese economy is doing so well is because of the fact there's lots of ridiculously cheap labor there and so companies are incentivized to move shop?
Vietnam's cheap labor advantage doesn't come cheap - VnExpress International
Cheap labor has been Vietnam's competitive edge for years, but it has come at the expense of workers' sustainable wellbeing. They neither have job stability nor an adequate safety net.
e.vnexpress.net