Fair enough. Apologies. I believed you were alluding to that essentially. It's easy to misunderstand intent through writing alone I think. Which is why I prefer direct vocal discourse personally. Yes, PvP is Prime Vs Prime.
(Potentially) Stolen Transformers (& the YouTubers that Review Them)
- Thread starter PrimalxConvoy
- Start date
NOOOO!!! And thus falls my criminal empire. I flew too close to the sun.
And?
That is the question we have that seems to be getting lost here. The point we're waiting for you to summarize. Yes, video reviewers are buying toys from a guy who buys them from a guy who steals them from the factory. We are not doubting the due diligence you and others have done on this. Toys are being stolen. There is room to speculate as to whether they're being stolen before the packaging stage or stolen from the scrapheap, but they are being stolen from somewhere. It's happening. It's illegal. Nobody is confused on this point.
The thing we're waiting to hear is what what makes it important. Not whether or not it's happening. Why is it so important to care? Why should I add it to the list of things I have the energy to care about? I can't pick them all. Why should I pick this one? Just because it's within one of my hobbies? If that's the reason, I can respect it. But it functionally does not matter. It's not actually an issue for Hasbro's bottom line. So why should it be an issue to me?
Deadass, on my mental 'list of things I care about', 'Transformers toy reviewers getting hold of and reviewing stolen toys' doesn't even make it to my list.
It is such a non-issue unless you're so corporate-brained that you think you have to care about anything that even remotely negatively affects Hasbro (even if, as has been stated multiple times in this thread, Hasbro accounts for some amount of loss in their budget and therefore doesn't even matter to them) because IDK as fans of Transformers you think you should have a vested interest in this or something, I really don't know at this point.
It is such a non-issue unless you're so corporate-brained that you think you have to care about anything that even remotely negatively affects Hasbro (even if, as has been stated multiple times in this thread, Hasbro accounts for some amount of loss in their budget and therefore doesn't even matter to them) because IDK as fans of Transformers you think you should have a vested interest in this or something, I really don't know at this point.
Then what is the point of myself trying to convince you when you won't be convinced that theft matters? "Deadass" (whatever that means).
I think at this point you in particular have interjected yourself only to look for an argument where none exists. You have your opinion I guess, and I have mine. Theft is wrong. We have alot of evidence of it happening within our hobby. I will continue to try and put a stop to it.
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Again, and for the 3rd (and final) time now: I HAVE summarized my position in my response to the staff member on THIS thread. Idk why you are having difficulty finding that particular response. We already know a few here refuse to do any sort of actual research yourself on these matters. You're telling me you can't click on the previous page here either?
As far as why it's important, brother if you don't know why theft is wrong (in our hobby or elsewhere), and don't care about stopping it...again, there's no convincing I can do. I care because it's being done within the hobby I've enjoyed for longer than many here have existed. I care because these things are a slap in the face to creators who've built their channels honestly. I care because it's illegal. But it shouldn't matter if it were a TF or a loaf of bread. All other rationales and counter-points regarding this are simply exercises in complacency and moral negligence. That's my opinion.
I can see an argument. The way I see it, the damage or potential damages are:
1- Creates a market for stolen goods that may tempt an otherwise straight-laced employee into stealing, possibly at the cost of their job. By supporting the black market, you are indirectly causing people to loose jobs that they need.
2- Creates an unfair disadvantage to those reviewers who actually play by the rules. They can't compete with people who show the toys early, and since there is money to be made being a Youtube reviewer, you're costing them views, which equal money.
But, here is where I agree that these damages are so minimal that I find it hard to care about them. No one is forcing workers to steal the toys. Their pay doesn't go DOWN because they don't steal them, they just don't get any extra, illegal money. Anyone that DOES steal and ends up getting fired knew the risks and made that decision on their own.
As for the Youtube thing, there are so many factors (some knowable, some unknowable) that go into whether someone "hits the bigtime" as a Youtuber and can make/sustain a career of it. I just can't work up any strong feelings on that one way or the other.
1- Creates a market for stolen goods that may tempt an otherwise straight-laced employee into stealing, possibly at the cost of their job. By supporting the black market, you are indirectly causing people to loose jobs that they need.
2- Creates an unfair disadvantage to those reviewers who actually play by the rules. They can't compete with people who show the toys early, and since there is money to be made being a Youtube reviewer, you're costing them views, which equal money.
But, here is where I agree that these damages are so minimal that I find it hard to care about them. No one is forcing workers to steal the toys. Their pay doesn't go DOWN because they don't steal them, they just don't get any extra, illegal money. Anyone that DOES steal and ends up getting fired knew the risks and made that decision on their own.
As for the Youtube thing, there are so many factors (some knowable, some unknowable) that go into whether someone "hits the bigtime" as a Youtuber and can make/sustain a career of it. I just can't work up any strong feelings on that one way or the other.
Well obviously the ones directly jacking the product are doing so continually without getting canned. So it seems.
But I respect that view.
LITERALLY WHO GIVES A jive.
I am being genuine right now.
WHO GIVES A jive.
Are you being personally affected by people stealing toys at a level that Hasbro themselves doesn't care about?
No?
Then why do you give a jive beyond a need to blindly defend the multi-billion dollar company.
A few things that affect me that I care about:
- Global warming
- The rise of the far-right and fascism in the world
- The rising anti-queer (especially anti-trans) sentiment in this country which is why I am literally planning on moving out of my state when I can because I live in the worst state for trans folk.
Spare me your nonsense about how 'theft matters' (as if all theft is bad, it's not - stealing toys is dumb as jive but I'm not gonna say that all theft is wrong because there are people who steal to survive), there are at least million more important things to care about than some goddamn stolen children's toys and the people who review them.
Here's the thing, Coroporations are massive entities that really do no give a hug about you, or anyone else on such a small scale that you might as well be ants to them. Those ants aren't going to hurt them, they're not going to help them either. If a person broke into your home and stole your latest toy for a review, I'd care. That's ants stealing from ants, that actually effect you, hurts you finically in some form.
This is essentually a monkey sphere problem. On a small scale people are going to care about the what happens to the monkeys, but their is a point where people will stop caring becuase the monkeys are so numerous that they cease being indiviuals and start to be masses. If my neighbor was robbed, I'd care. If the local mom and pop shop was robbed, I'd care. Someone takes bread for a grocery store chain? Not really. Someone steals an tiem from Walmart? Still don't really care. Becuase they aren't hurt finically like the smaller businesses or families would be.
This is essentually a monkey sphere problem. On a small scale people are going to care about the what happens to the monkeys, but their is a point where people will stop caring becuase the monkeys are so numerous that they cease being indiviuals and start to be masses. If my neighbor was robbed, I'd care. If the local mom and pop shop was robbed, I'd care. Someone takes bread for a grocery store chain? Not really. Someone steals an tiem from Walmart? Still don't really care. Becuase they aren't hurt finically like the smaller businesses or families would be.
Me. I "give a jive". I think I've established that. Nearly 500 folks in our FB group "give a jive". Over 250 people who signed our petition "give a jive".
Spare me your woke political nonsense anon. Since we're now "sparing" people things. The "oh they're only kids toys" excuse is another I hear quite often btw. Obviously those kids toys are important to many here.
I cannot instill within a person values that one's own parents failed to do. When ANY wrong or illegal act is done before my eyes, sorry, I'm not just sitting there nonchalantly. I'm acting in any way I can. I'd come to the direct physical defense of a person being mugged, not condone and/or report tax evasion...whatever. The fact that it exists and is practiced within the Transformers community just makes it hit closer to home for myself.
If my views on these matters offend you somehow....my bad. But those views will not change.
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Corporate theft does effect us on a smaller scale my friend. Folks like to say they budget those losses. Sure, they do. But prices will rise, rest assured, when enough of it occurs. It's called "shrinkage" (no, not what you get in a cold pool lol) But all that is besides the point to begin with imo.
It's not simply a matter of defending a large corporation. It's a matter of personal morality.
I was thinking more along the lines of amateur reviewers, who bought the toys and then reviewed them at YouTube (like most YouTube TF reviewers we watch).
Have you checked the first post at this thread? There are some links to help fill in the gaps about this topic. I understand that watching videos isn't for everyone (I get annoyed these days when it seems more and more textual info is now almost needlessly presented as a YouTube video, presumably to get clicks instead of being helpful and accessible info), so that's why I've provided some links to other discussions, images, etc.
Also, I appreciate your interest in the info/debate here.
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I think before things get heated / personal, this whole exchange can pretty much be summed up as such:
Stealing and/or supporting stealing these toys is wrong. No one here really seems to think otherwise.
The scale of the "wrongness" is low enough that 99% of us feel is below the threshold of requiring any sort of personal action or even real thought devoted to it.
TransformersTalkRaw feels differently for his own reasons. Which is his right. But I don't believe that there will be many converts to the cause on this one.
I think we're all just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
Stealing and/or supporting stealing these toys is wrong. No one here really seems to think otherwise.
The scale of the "wrongness" is low enough that 99% of us feel is below the threshold of requiring any sort of personal action or even real thought devoted to it.
TransformersTalkRaw feels differently for his own reasons. Which is his right. But I don't believe that there will be many converts to the cause on this one.
I think we're all just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
And that right there, ends any attempt at trying to talk to you. Anyone that uses terms like woke and Anon seriously, have proven time and again to just not be worth the time and effort.
One thing I've liked about the Allspark is that they haven't actively promoted stolen TF reviewers. Some of the other sites have though. One of them in particular (see first post at this thread) has a policy of not promoting 3P figures (as it goes against Hasbro's profits, etc) but they do promote the likes of CVC's videos by directly linking to them. Prior to that, the staff would just show screenshots of said videos, in order to keep up with showing the latest news whilst adhering to their moral stance of some of the site''s viewers (such as myself) and supporting Hasbro (or what they believe Hasbro would want). However, the site owner themself messaged me and posted publicly that he supported such YouTubers (having built up his site via reviewing "Saturday special" TFs from factories back in the day). As such, the staff at that site then had to 360 on their position and start providing direct links to such YouTubers, due to the site owner/main site's management requiring it.
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Thank God. Love you too. Perhaps you missed the part where your buddy was blabbering on about the rise of the "alt-right" and telling me "no one gives a **** about" something many clearly do, including myself?
I'm guessing you did. Like I said, some of yall only read what you wanna read. What fits your narratives.
You don't want to hear more from me? I assure you, the feeling is quite mutual
So, are you actually going, or are you just gonna stick around being rude, condescending, and arrogant? I'm sure nothing I say would matter, because you've made it quite clear that you don't actually care what anyone says to you, I'm just curious. Because as much as you seem to think you're riding a moral high horse of some kind, you really just come across as a forum troll with too much time on his hands.
To put in my two cents on the actual subject: Yes, stealing is, objectively and legally, bad. There are cases where it might be justifiable, but comparing food or supplies necessary for survival to a plastic toy is absurd in any reasonable moral sense. But, it's not something I have any capacity to actually do anything about. If it bothers Hasbro that much, they could crack down on the factories about it, but they're clearly not doing it, so why should I get upset? About the only thing I can do is not watch the reviewers known to buy stolen product, but I don't watch video reviews much anyway, so there's no change for me anyway.
This thread is getting way too focused on individuals instead of the topic. Any more and I think it will best to lock this thread for a while.