Reimagining Quintessons

[KingSwoop]

In the G1 movie. Quintessons were weird and goofy with a strange, unknown connection to the Transformers.
In G1, S3 it's revealed the Quintessons built the Transformers... although I've been more of a fan of the idea that the Quintessons enslaved the transformers. Either way, they seem to have sold transformers to assorted alien species, effectively seeding Transformers across the universe even before the exoduses of the Great Wars.
Transformers One seems to be reimagining Quintessons, with at least some of them being alien, possibly cyborg or "transorganic" (ugh) quintessons capable of transformation. This isn't a bad idea, honestly.

If we were going to reboot G1 (and I think that's the best bet, especially if we use a Season 1 episode to explain that JJ-Abrams-style time travel made this a parallel reality, letting fans have their old cake AND their new cake and the occasional crossover...), though, I think we want to make the Quintessons more than goofy Ferengi. And here's my pitch for the Quintessons for such a new series:

1. Quintessons are an ancient race that sought out "perfection", and to that end they conquered 5 distinct races (hence "Quintesson").
2. No one knows what the original Quintessons looked like, but they've molded the technological, biological, and psychological advantages of their conquered species together to help them become the ideal, specialized society.
3. Cybertron was the last planet to be conquered, and the only planet to rebel successfully. Quintessons still use beastial cybertronians grown off world as their personal soldiers - Allicons, Sharkticons, etc. (MAYBE the beastial cybertrons were created by applying one of the other conquered species to cybertronian species. You could say they don't have sparks, but that'd suck; so I think we'd be talking about Insecticon-like budding, and grounding the Insecticons as byproducts of those early experiments.
4. Maybe using one of the conquered alien species technology, quintessons could create quintesson "elite soliders" (think the TFO transforming quintessons); but maybe the idea of changing shape is seem as demeaning to quintessons?
5. Quintesson Guards could be cyborgs of one of the conquered species who still obey their Quintesson masters.
6. During the height of the occupation, Quintessons shipped out a variety of worker and military robots to alien worlds, seeding them with transformers that one might meet if they ever do a Star-Trek style show. I'm also a fan of the rebellion on Cybertron being, at least in part, won with the help of Decepticon soldiers returning to their homeworld to free it. One benefit here is that this could create a divide in the cybertronian society; with local autobots favoring isolationism, while Decepticons being more hawkish. Having the "more experienced" Decepticons in the right can help explain how there's a peaceful end to one of the earlier wars that doesn't abolish the autobot/decepticon divide.
7. However, we can establish that Quintessons exploit and ultimately consume the planets they conquer, which explains why they don't have an empire, but instead used to Independence Day themselves from world to world.
8. After the Quintesson Exodus, maybe the Quintessons have broken up as a species. It's not hard to imagine they ended up on, say, 5 different planets so we could have different factions of Quintessons.

 

[lastmaximal]

Quintessons are indeed a pretty neat concept that can be played with, conceptually malleable almost immediately after their introduction (we go from the wild corrupt courtroom to creators of the Transformers, and the tweaking has gone on since).

I'm with you in preferring them as not THE makers of all things and all Transformers, but as opportunists who took over a fledgling Cybertron and shunted it into a particular direction (technological rather than organic or mixed, etc). Maybe it was particularly appealing to them because it had the ability to create its own complex life because of the Forge etc, so more efficient and so on.

I like the idea of them either being made by or inspired by Quintus Prime, perhaps with some life sparking influence from the Emberstone. Since encountering the Hitchhiker's Guide in high school (ish) I also always thought of Quintessa as a planet-sized factory akin to Magrathea, in the business of making planets (and possibly its denizens) to order. This ties in with the "Cybertron as one of their colony/factory worlds" idea, as well as thel politico-capitalist bent that was underscored in the Animated almanacs (with the co-Prosperity Sphere).

Two things I'd like to see as part of any reimagining are a fleshing out of their culture. One, the roots of the whole judicial bent (which is a neat element, but doesn't have to be the entirety of their culture), occasional wizards and such, and so on. And two, maybe work in the "five large-headed Makers combining into a gestalt five-faced blob with atrophied limbs as tentacles" visual from TF vs GI Joe, which was very striking.

BTW, feel free to drop by the Personal Canon thread as well!

 

[Sabrblade]

Cyberverse season 3 certainly went about reimagining the Quintessons to an extent never before seen by any other media that had ever used them.

 

[LordGigaIce]

I'd like to see Quintessons reimagined as sort of Lovecraftian Great Old Ones

 

[lastmaximal]

I guess that's true. Leaning into the judging and tying that into conquest and invasion, plus incorporating subjugated races into the multihead structure, is definitely a fresh take that definitely doesn't bog itself down with creation/history stuff. Part of me thinks this could have just been an entirely different or original race, but the absorbing lends itself well to the quint head design.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

I wouldn't establish anything deep. They're liars, and I'd leave it at that.

I never liked the idea of them being the creators of the Transformers, but I've taken a liking to their claim of making the Transformers, and it was Earthrise Allicon that did it for me. That thing is junk. I mean look at the alt mode. The robot arms are just sticking out, not even trying to hide. The robot fists don't fold away or anything. It looks like a shallow imitation of a Transformer, and it becomes endearing if you imagine that that's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's not a divergent strain of Transformer life from the same creators. It's an imitation of Transformer life by a bunch of liars.

 

[Sabrblade]

Cyberverse season 3 certainly went about reimagining the Quintessons to an extent never before seen by any other media that had ever used them.

Even how their name is pronounced was reimagined!

 

[lastmaximal]

Even how their name is pronounced was reimagined!

Did you... Just quote yourself with a clever winky-face rejoinder?

It's an imitation of Transformer life by a bunch of liars.

Yeesh, I thought we liked this design team.

 

[KingSwoop]

I'd like to see Quintessons reimagined as sort of Lovecraftian Great Old Ones

I haven't actually watched S3, but the mutliversal aspect is a bit much I think. You're free to do "Conversion Brainiac" if you want, but you need to introduce normal Brainiac first.

I'd like to see Quintessons reimagined as sort of Lovecraftian Great Old Ones

That feels like an IDW elseworlds thing.

But we do know that magic exists in the Transformers universe. Still, I don't like the idea of Quintessons as being undefeatable or cosmic. Indeed, Transformers already has a pantheon of cosmic Transformers of varying degrees; I suppose coming across a cosmic Quintesson wouldn't hurt... but I'd rather see Devastator VS Liege Maximo than Devastator VS Discount Beholder.

I guess that's true. Leaning into the judging and tying that into conquest and invasion, plus incorporating subjugated races into the multihead structure, is definitely a fresh take that definitely doesn't bog itself down with creation/history stuff. Part of me thinks this could have just been an entirely different or original race, but the absorbing lends itself well to the quint head design.

I like the Quintessons as antagonists, but the "Cosmic" nature of Unicron, Primus, etc. has more storytelling potential, even if we're just talking dues ex machina. To be clear; I DO NOT like the "13" nonsense, 13 is too many and I really don't need to see Hasbro micromanage the origins of the transformers THAT MUCH. You COULD tie the quintessons to a cosmic transformer (GF Unicron, Quintess Prime, etc.), but having them be an evil analogue of Earth makes sense.

Speaking of which, does Megatron want to rule and/or enslave Earth/humanity? While I can't deny the mind control nonsense (wasn't this Arkeville and/or Bombshell mostly in previous fiction?); I'm much more interested in a Megatron who dismisses the locals and wants to strip their resources than as a conqueror or colonizer. Megatron might be "Might makes right"; but he's a military dictator, not a slaver. Quintessons, however, ARE conquerors and slavers in most media, so having them be cosmic losers after the Transformers booted them is narratively interesting.

(Optimus's quite is that freedom is the right of all sentient beings, but Megatron can be seen as an aggressive, even hawkish, defender of his people's life and freedom. Freedom for Megatron might mean security; Peace through Tyranny.)

I wouldn't establish anything deep. They're liars, and I'd leave it at that.

I never liked the idea of them being the creators of the Transformers, but I've taken a liking to their claim of making the Transformers, and it was Earthrise Allicon that did it for me. That thing is junk. I mean look at the alt mode. The robot arms are just sticking out, not even trying to hide. The robot fists don't fold away or anything. It looks like a shallow imitation of a Transformer, and it becomes endearing if you imagine that that's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's not a divergent strain of Transformer life from the same creators. It's an imitation of Transformer life by a bunch of liars.

Well, I'm writing this more from a series bible perspective; how much of anything makes it into the show and how much can be changed to better the story is a problem for much later down the line.

Quintessons as liars? I'm not adverse to that, but you have to be aware that some of your audience might take it literally. "Spawn of Unicron" is meant to be an Insult to Tarantulas, but audience being what it is, a good portion of Beast Wars fans have complicated fan backstories for Tarantulas. Hell, one of the first things I thought when I got the recent Legacy 4 pack was "Oh, this is the sorry bloke that BW Tarantulas Among Us'd before the beginning of Beast Wars."

If you have a Quintesson say "I created the transformers" before, say, showing us Primus, the audience is going to be confused. YOU might have intended this to be a lie, but what the audience thinks could be different.

I also can't think of a good story where this would come up. Like Gnaw is a loyal sharkticon and believes the lie that the Quintessons created them, but then Wheelie rocks up with his paperback Book of Primus and converts Gnaw into believing in Primus? That's super creepy, even if we take the comparison to missionaries teaching "savages" about the Bible out of the picture. Like has Wheelie of all people met Primus? No. Does Grimlock, after waking primus in the center of Cybertron, come across Gnaw and say "Me Grimlock see bigger god than your puny gods"?

Religion kind of sucks, and while I suppose I could see a cult episode or two, I really don't want to see it Transformers. Real life religious community and ethics can be a good thing, but it can clearly be twisted and justify evil and discrimination. You want to do a "very special episode" that shows this with Quintessons? Sure... but it'd suck if it's their introduction or default.

 

[Superomegaprime]

I was kind of thinking that a possible Origins for the Quntasons is that they are among the earliest races to exist within the Universe, at first they were just explorers, but over the centuries after settling upon other worlds, they had evolved their own cultures and one of those cultures was volient and enjoyed suffering, while another loved money and with other races appearing in the galaxy, they began stoking the fires of war through misinformation and to unite the five tribes, what we call the Judge was created through their science along with other creatures to be subservent to them!

Over time, the original Quintasons, slowly died out or changed depending upon various factors, like a growing discontent among some parts or outright rejecting trying to build and empire, so the leaders of the galatic empire, order their obilration in secert while their infilence within the galaxy grows, they took control of a planet with metal lifeforms that hasn't really developed, yet and turn the planet into a factory to aid in their profit making and enslaving the race that would go on to become the Transformers! Of course, overtime this primative race of metal lifeforms would rebel against their creators with only two models they were able to mass produce off world for other purposes which would be the least smartest of their creations as they could maintain control over them.

 

[LordGigaIce]

I haven't actually watched S3, but the mutliversal aspect is a bit much I think. You're free to do "Conversion Brainiac" if you want, but you need to introduce normal Brainiac first.


That feels like an IDW elseworlds thing.

But we do know that magic exists in the Transformers universe. Still, I don't like the idea of Quintessons as being undefeatable or cosmic. Indeed, Transformers already has a pantheon of cosmic Transformers of varying degrees; I suppose coming across a cosmic Quintesson wouldn't hurt... but I'd rather see Devastator VS Liege Maximo than Devastator VS Discount Beholder.



I like the Quintessons as antagonists, but the "Cosmic" nature of Unicron, Primus, etc. has more storytelling potential, even if we're just talking dues ex machina. To be clear; I DO NOT like the "13" nonsense, 13 is too many and I really don't need to see Hasbro micromanage the origins of the transformers THAT MUCH. You COULD tie the quintessons to a cosmic transformer (GF Unicron, Quintess Prime, etc.), but having them be an evil analogue of Earth makes sense.

Speaking of which, does Megatron want to rule and/or enslave Earth/humanity? While I can't deny the mind control nonsense (wasn't this Arkeville and/or Bombshell mostly in previous fiction?); I'm much more interested in a Megatron who dismisses the locals and wants to strip their resources than as a conqueror or colonizer. Megatron might be "Might makes right"; but he's a military dictator, not a slaver. Quintessons, however, ARE conquerors and slavers in most media, so having them be cosmic losers after the Transformers booted them is narratively interesting.

(Optimus's quite is that freedom is the right of all sentient beings, but Megatron can be seen as an aggressive, even hawkish, defender of his people's life and freedom. Freedom for Megatron might mean security; Peace through Tyranny.)

> makes a post asking about Quintesson origins

> others reply with their thoughts

> OP decides he doesn't like any of them

Optimus's quite is that freedom is the right of all sentient beings, but Megatron can be seen as an aggressive, even hawkish, defender of his people's life and freedom. Freedom for Megatron might mean security; Peace through Tyranny.

Calm down Raksha.
Also what Megatron is, or what his philosophy and goals are, really has nothing to do with Quintessons. Kind of seems like you're tipping off the rails.

Still, I don't like the idea of Quintessons as being undefeatable or cosmic.

Who said anything about undefeatable? I said I'd be down for a re-interpretation of them as cosmic evil entities akin to Lovecraft's Great Old Ones, but the nature of the TF franchise is such that even if you did go in that direction they'd be very beatable. The Ghostbusters got to get one up on Cthulhu after all.

I'm just taking the prompt you posited and running with it.
The Quintessons' defining characteristics are... tentacles, multiple faces, mysterious origins, having lesser races enslaved to do their bidding.

There's a lot of room there to re-imagine them, or at least some of them, as Lovecraftian cosmic horrors. The characteristics I mentioned lend themselves to it well.
You mentioned you prefer cosmic Primus and Unicron, but if Primus is the cosmic embodiment of good and order and Unicron the cosmic embodiment of evil and chaos, the Quintessons could be conceived as cosmic Lovecraftian entities that reject that very duality and represent madness. Hell, doing that also jives with another memorable characteristic- finding prisoners "innocent" but executing them. It's all very In the Mouth of Madness.

Now hey if none of this jives with you, that's cool. Good news is I'm nowhere near the reigns of official Transformers fiction.
But you did ask for people's opinions.

 

[lastmaximal]

I'd be wary of dismissing ideas as "that's just quintessons as goofy/discount/etc [existing character]", not least because that's not as productive a perspective as it appears. Aside from the way it kind of reductively stops a conversation dead, it casts a shadow on alternatives.

If nothing else, you'd be constantly second-guessing whether the idea you land on to avoid that is itself not evocative of something else that already exists. The art isn't always in the innovation, it's in the execution.

That said, I'm sure there are many ways to write the Quintessons as being liars, or operating on a grand lie that gets found out. Mysteries and betrayals and such are definitely things that have been done before, with a ton of tropes that are useful tools. Obviously stories can and should be better than that facetious (I hope) Gnaw/Wheelie/etc example, but I'm not sure what your benchmarks for "good" are. I will say that they can absolutely lie about things that have nothing to do with religion, if you don't want to work with that topic.

For that matter I don't think "but the audience might take it literally" is not a reason to avoid writing a lying character (or even a character that might mean more than one thing by what they say". For one thing, you can't really control how audiences interpret things; even if one line lands the way it's intended, another might not for a variety of reasons. Hell, sometimes people get blindsided by utterly obvious and consistent things, like the fact that Homelander is the villain of The Boys.

"Spawn of Unicron" was cryptic enough in the context of the characters involved that there was just enough gas to make it interesting, and so it was pursued. But this sort of investment and energy is precisely what makes a long-game misdirect such a powerful storytelling tool.

 

[LordGigaIce]

I like the Quintessons as antagonists, but the "Cosmic" nature of Unicron, Primus, etc. has more storytelling potential

Religion kind of sucks, and while I suppose I could see a cult episode or two, I really don't want to see it Transformers.

bruh

 

[lastmaximal]

> makes a post asking about Quintesson origins

> others reply with their thoughts

> OP decides he doesn't like any of them

I mean, folks...

 

[LordGigaIce]

I mean, folks...

I'm confused

 

[lastmaximal]

I'm confused

Oh, sorry, wrestling reference. It's one of those promos that caught on almost ironically.

Although upon rereading it, I guess the original post DIDN'T ask for anyone's thoughts after all, just listing their own pitch.

So... (shrug) I guess in replying first, I started us off on the wrong foot by offering my own dumb ideas about them.

 

[LordGigaIce]

DIDN'T ask for anyone's thoughts after all, just listing their own pitch.

So... (shrug) I guess in replying first, I started us off on the wrong foot by offering my own dumb ideas about them.

Nah you're good. I mean if it's just the OP listing his pitch what else is there to say beyond "cool" or "not for me"? Starting a topic like this is almost asking for people to chime in.

 

[NovaSaber]

Calling the G1 Quintessons "goofy Ferengi" implies that the actual Ferengi are somehow the less goofy of the two, and I don't see that.

 

[KingSwoop]

Also what Megatron is, or what his philosophy and goals are, really has nothing to do with Quintessons. Kind of seems like you're tipping off the rails.

Transformers is fiction, and in fiction you want a diversity of characters. In real life, all bank robbers want money. In fiction, you have fictional bank robbers who want money, who want to antagonize Batman, who rob banks as art, who rob the bank as a distraction so they can place something in a bank safe, who rob banks to fund a revolution, etc.

Megatron wants peace through tyranny; he doesn't care about "lesser species."

But Quintesson Jerkface can contrast with Megatron; he wants lesser species to serve him.

In Megatron's ideal world, he might rule over Cybertron for ever, seeing it flourish and - maybe - send out colonizes to cyberform energon rich planets. He's perfectly fine with Earth and other alien planets living their own lives, as long as they don't threaten his utopia.

Meanwhile, QJ's ideal world might involve conquering other species, somehow being a racist Borg. QJ's philosophy is worse than Megatron's; Megatron doesn't care about humans; but QJ believes they're lesser... but needs to acquire the technological advances of those lesser beings, and force them to do his dirty work. QJ's philosophy is contradictory: [they are inferior] + [they are superior and I must have that superiority] don't mix.

Calling the G1 Quintessons "goofy Ferengi" implies that the actual Ferengi are somehow the less goofy of the two, and I don't see that.

Fair enough. I'm not going to say Ferengi are the height of class or anything, but it's always fun to see Quark give a highly impractical economics-driven speech in favor of common sense.

At the very least, they're a bit more goofy looking.

bruh

I don't mean anything by it; Jesus Christ is a swell guy and might be numerically distinct and numerically identical to his father at the same time!

But the people who ask WWJD and answer "spend money on myself, and not the poor" are, if nothing else, bad at interpreting the source material.

I really don't think I want to watch a very special episode of Transformers where Bulkhead learns that the Cult of Primus are being Wizard of Ozed by a cultist Quintesson who is exploiting the people for cheap labor or something.

Similarly, if Spike wants to talk about his faith in the context of a universe with giant alien robots, that could be interesting. But I don't know if that'd be the best use of an episode.

In fiction, aliens are often shorthanded to save the same cultural beliefs, same religious beliefs, and same moral beliefs. This is, of course, an oversimplication; but when I think of transformers, I don't think of religion because it's fiction and we know the fiction - in the comics, Primus created everybody. If MegaOctaine or Gearloose don't think this is true, they're wrong and we know they're wrong so we don't take their religious beliefs seriously. I do not want a South Park Moron episode in my Transformers. I want Megatron to try to drain the energon out of some scifi mcguffin and scifi stuff happens because of it!

 

[LordGigaIce]

I don't mean anything by it; Jesus Christ is a swell guy and might be numerically distinct and numerically identical to his father at the same time!

But the people who ask WWJD and answer "spend money on myself, and not the poor" are, if nothing else, bad at interpreting the source material.

I really don't think I want to watch a very special episode of Transformers where Bulkhead learns that the Cult of Primus are being Wizard of Ozed by a cultist Quintesson who is exploiting the people for cheap labor or something.

Similarly, if Spike wants to talk about his faith in the context of a universe with giant alien robots, that could be interesting. But I don't know if that'd be the best use of an episode.

In fiction, aliens are often shorthanded to save the same cultural beliefs, same religious beliefs, and same moral beliefs. This is, of course, an oversimplication; but when I think of transformers, I don't think of religion because it's fiction and we know the fiction - in the comics, Primus created everybody. If MegaOctaine or Gearloose don't think this is true, they're wrong and we know they're wrong so we don't take their religious beliefs seriously. I do not want a South Park Moron episode in my Transformers. I want Megatron to try to drain the energon out of some scifi mcguffin and scifi stuff happens because of it!

Cool.

Look I'm not interested in whatever hangups you have about religion outside of your own contradictions in this thread.
You've said you prefer the stories of cosmically powered Primus and Unicron but you've also said you dislike religion and don't want it in Transformers.

Bro. Primus is the godhead of most iterations of the Cybertronian religion. Saying you want Primus and Unicron- both analogous to us as the audience and Cybertronians as characters as G-d and Satan- but don't want religion is, to put it charitably, nonsensical.

Thing is there are Transformers continuities that forgo all mythical and religious backstory elements and just avoid the issue of religion all together, but those continuities specially avoid Primus because it's hard to keep religion out of Transformers if you're going to include the god of robots as a character.

In Megatron's ideal world, he might rule over Cybertron for ever, seeing it flourish and - maybe - send out colonizes to cyberform energon rich planets. He's perfectly fine with Earth and other alien planets living their own lives, as long as they don't threaten his utopia.

This is in direct contradiction of most depictions of Megatron.
Megatron's views on non-Cybertronian species range from dismissive disregard to genocidal hatred depending on continuity but at the very least he sees Earth as a source of energy and resources.

And again... none of this has anything to do with Quintessons outside of broadly describing how they differ in your head canon.

Which is all well and good... but I have to ask what we're doing here. You started a thread to, it appears, just hear yourself talk. Other people took it on themselves to make something of it, sharing their own interpretations of Quintessons and what they have been or could be.

You shot it all down, went on a few bizarre rants and... ?

I donno man. What are we doing here? What do you want out of your fellow forum posters here?