Sonic The Hedgehog

[Caldwin]

I never did get the original Shadow game. I just wasn't that much into Sonic at the time. And now at this point I really. Don't go for Gamecube games just because I'd have to play them on my Wii and dragging out the batteries is a pain.

So I don't really know the story of how that went all wrong.

All I know is that Keanu Reeves voiced him in the latest movie and that's enough for me.

 

[Pocket]

All I know is that he had a gun that looks like a submachine gun but he pumps it like a shotgun in one cutscene because someone decided it looked cool, and he says "Where is that DAMN fourth chaos emerald?"

To me it seems like a product of its time, a culture dominated (at least in the US, maybe also in Japan judging by some of the anime I've seen from that era?) by dark brooding edgy teens and young adults, many of whom had grown up with Sonic games and were as perfect a target audience for a game about a dark brooding edgy Sonic side character as you could ever hope for. But it was also a time when that culture was widely mocked, at least online. And I believe it was around that time that the Sonic fandom started garnering infamy for being (among other things) full of young teens who were trying to be edgy beyond their years. The "nothing personnel kid" meme and all that. Depending on which came first, Shadow would have either been blamed for it, or seen as pandering to it.

These days... well, I have no idea how to read the current cultural climate, let alone the Sonic fandom. But if that game was considered the nadir of the series at the time, that status would prove to be quite short-lived.

 

[Caldwin]

You see, here's the thing, there's edgy and then there's trying to hard. Back then there was just a lot of trying too hard. That sounds like what Shadow was doing. It seems like now they mostly toned it down to appropriate levels.

At least that's just then sense I'm getting as someone who wasn't a fan at the time.

 

[Zamuel]

Was Shadow just ahead of his time?

Nah, I'd argue that Shadow Generations is simply a fundamentally better controlling game with a better written story than Shadow's self titled game. Useful bits were pulled from Shadow '05 but it was a bad game. Shadow has always been popular and this time Sega just managed his popularity better.

Shadow '05 is like Sonic Forces in that the serious and humorous aspects clash in a way that prevents you from taking the serious parts seriously. Usually I'd think of "good plot, bad script" as something you'd apply to Forces and Lost World. But I think the humor in Shadow '05 is more accidental and ironic than those two.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

Then again, there's the Omochao gun. Someone must have been aware they were making a goofy game.

 

[Sabrblade]

Shadow's game also mischaracterized him as an uncaring jerk. Even in the opening cut scene before the first level begins, he sees the Black Arms aliens coming down from the sky and beginning their attack on the city, harming and terrifying innocent civilians, and he's just like "Whatever, not my problem." He only gets himself involved after Black Doom appears before him as an apparition and vaguely intrigues/puzzles Shadow enough into wanting to collect the Chaos Emeralds.

But regardless of whatever damage this game did to Shadow's characterization, it was very short-lived since Sonic '06 went and immediately course corrected by writing Shadow in a way that was much truer to his depiction at the end of SA2.

The actual most damage done to Shadow's personality was in the Boom games in cartoon, in which shadow was basically depicted as a parody of early-DBZ Vegeta, constantly wanting to one-up Sonic and gleefully insulting him, his friends, and their friendship, like an insecure schoolyard bully who's trying way too hard to sound tough, macho, and cool. And while the Boom cartoon was mostly a parody show in and of itself, both it and the Boom games played this try-hard version of Shadow completely straight, with him genuinely believing that friendship and compassion are weaknesses to be mocked and spat upon.

 

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

You see, here's the thing, there's edgy and then there's trying to hard. Back then there was just a lot of trying too hard. That sounds like what Shadow was doing. It seems like now they mostly toned it down to appropriate levels.

At least that's just then sense I'm getting as someone who wasn't a fan at the time.

That game practically invented the term "tryhard".

Shadows game also mischaracterized him as an uncaring jerk. Even in the opening cut scene before the first level begins, he sees the Black Arms aliens coming down from the sky and beginning their attack on the city, harming and terrifying innocent civilians, and he's just like "Whatever, not my problem." He only gets himself involved after Black Doom appears before him as an apparition and vaguely intrigues/puzzles Shadow enough into wanting to collect the Chaos Emeralds.

But regardless of whatever damage this game did to Shadow's characterization, it was very short-lived since Sonic '06 went and immediately course corrected by writing Shadow in a way that was much truer to his depiction at the end of SA2.

I thought he was sort of reset in Sonic Heroes to what we saw in Shadow, and after he figured things out, he was more like who we saw at the end of Adventure 2...

...until Sonic Team was like "Yeah, but nah," and went with the Boom characterization after that came out.

Or maybe Boom was following Sonic Team's direction.

 

[Sabrblade]

I thought he was sort of reset in Sonic Heroes to what we saw in Shadow, and after he figured things out, he was more like who we saw at the end of Adventure 2...

Well, despite losing his memories in Heroes, recall that the first thing he did upon awakening from his stasis pod in that game was jump forward and save Rouge from Omega's attack. He didn't know who she was or why she was being attacked, yet his first instinct was to throw himself into danger and protect this complete stranger from harm. Beneath all his angst and posturing, that sense of selflessness and care is Shadow at his core, whether he himself would admit it or not.

Conversely, right at the start of Shadow's own game, he sees a whole city full of people suffering and being attacked, and his first reaction to that is "Pfft, whatevs, man. I'm too edgy to care."

 

[Caldwin]

I got this from Target today. This is actually the first Sonic toy I've ever bought...unless you count the Amiibo I bought for Smash Bros. Honestly, I'm a little disappointed. Sonic comes with a Chaos Emerald. Couldn't they have sprang for a small bowl of revenge guac for Shadow?

 

[Superomegaprime]

Had Sonic 3 on DVD arrive today, I'll sit down with the movie in a couple of days when I'm in the mood for a movie night

 

[Zamuel]

Or maybe Boom was following Sonic Team's direction.

Boom was following Sonic Team. The show's writers have openly stated that he was added to the show as parody and because people asking despite the writers not initially planning to add him. But...a lot is wholly on Sonic Team.

Sonic Battle released close to when Sonic Heroes was. In it, it portrayed Shadow as antagonistic for a reason and due to that it allowed him to be sympathetic. In Sonic Rivals and Rivals 2, Shadow is antagonistic (due to the poor communication kills structure of the game) but can be eventually reasoned with and even teams up with Eggman and Metal Sonic for non villainous reasons. Yet, Sonic Free Riders (which came out before Sonic Boom) has Shadow as a jerk. While most characters were written poorly in that game, it leaves you wondering why things are so different. Sitting and thinking about it, I think two things are at play.

First is notoriety. Many people who knew of Shadow's portrayal in his own game didn't know of how good he was written in Sonic '06. I mean, I didn't until recently. That game got so heavily overshadowed by broken gameplay and Sonic being kissed by Elise. In Sonic X, Shadow would often react in confrontational ways, even when he was trying to do the right thing. Two pieces of media with decent pop culture coverage have Shadow as a jerk.

Second, different games have different head writers. SA2 and '06 were both written by Shiro Maekawa. Shadow's own game was written by someone else. Then, there are things that don't translate over to English well or get deliberately changed. Not helped by the fact that some people unironically like the hyper edgy portrayal so Sega has reason to go back to it.

 

[Sabrblade]

Not helped by the fact that some people unironically like the hyper edgy portrayal so Sega has reason to go back to it.

Indeed. They see Shadow as a uncompassionate edgelord and think it good sport, because some people aren't looking for anything logical, like empathy. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some people just want to watch the world burn.

 

[Caldwin]

Can't be reasoned with. Can't be bargained with. Doesn't feel pity or remorse or fear and they absolutely will not stop...ever...until you are dead!

 

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

Well, despite losing his memories in Heroes, recall that the first thing he did upon awakening from his stasis pod in that game was jump forward and save Rouge from Omega's attack. He didn't know who she was or why she was being attacked, yet his first instinct was to throw himself into danger and protect this complete stranger from harm. Beneath all his angst and posturing, that sense of selflessness and care is Shadow at his core, whether he himself would admit it or not.

Conversely, right at the start of Shadow's own game, he sees a whole city full of people suffering and being attacked, and his first reaction to that is "Pfft, whatevs, man. I'm too edgy to care."

Could have been more instinct than a decisive course of action. But even assuming it's not, it's logical that she could prove useful to him, so letting her die before finding out would be a potential missed opportunity.

Indeed. They see Shadow as a uncompassionate edgelord and think it good sport, because some people aren't looking for anything logical, like empathy. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some people just want to watch the world burn.

Can't be reasoned with. Can't be bargained with. Doesn't feel pity or remorse or fear and they absolutely will not stop...ever...until you are dead!

Oh, like a certain subset of society.

Yeah, you know exactly who I'm talking about.

Spoiler

Football fans.

 

[Caldwin]

Oh, like a certain subset of society.

Yeah, you know exactly who I'm talking about.

Spoiler

Football fans.

Spoiler

American or European?

 

[Sabrblade]

Spoiler

American or European?

Spoiler

Yes.

 

[Sabrblade]

Could have been more instinct than a decisive course of action. But even assuming it's not, it's logical that she could prove useful to him, so letting her die before finding out would be a potential missed opportunity.

He had no personal agenda in that moment, because he didn't know what was going on or who he himself even was. All he knew was that he saw some stranger in danger and leapt into action to protect her, with no ulterior motive.

 

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

Spoiler

Yes.

He had no personal agenda in that moment, because he didn't know what was going on or who he himself even was. All he knew was that he saw some stranger in danger and leapt into action to protect her, with no ulterior motive.

Which brings us back to the first part, instinct. Or reflex, if you prefer. The latter part simply saying if we were to disregard that and assume that it was somehow conscious choice, that would probably be why. (But my money is on the first part.)