Star Trek: Picard

[Dekafox]

On the transporter talk, the episode of TNG where Barclay saw things during the transport makes things even messier in that regard. it's one of those technologies you really do need to take the MST3k mantra to, as unsatisfying as that sounds. Especially given other uses, like when they used it to de-age Pulaski.

As for digital copies of people being that people, it is definitely a huge can of worms that's on the level of cloning. As an example of cloning issues themselves, take the case of the two Rikers - if our Riker had died before they found Thomas Riker, would he have been accepted back effectively as the original? Between incidents like that and the Boimler clone, I expect the Federation by the time period of the later parts of Picard has established case law to cover incidents of direct cloning of people(mentally or otherwise) so by the time Picard got resleeved into a synthetic body, it was legally a non-issue.

Ultimately Star Trek has always been soft Sci-Fi, even if it is harder than a lot of other series. If you're looking for a harder Sci-Fi take on the idea of person copying, this short story(written in the format of a wiki article) delves into some of the ways that things could go off the rails: https://qntm.org/mmacevedo

 

[Kup]

Riker and Pulaski were both cloned. He then vaporizes both after discovering them. Ibudan (sp?) killed his own clone, and Odo arrested him for it. Meanwhile, Jadzia (or was it Bashir) irresponsibly “grew” the sample they found in Ibudan’s possession, which turned out to be another clone. That person then left the station to live his life.

Point: Star Trek seems to have evolved its standing on cloning as the franchise progresses, at first not seeing them as sentient life (or was that a non-womb abortion, of which we know Pulaski supported in-womb abortions anyway so she would be okay vaporizing a test tube clone?) to charging someone with killing their own clone to considering a clone it’s own person.

In universe you can draw a lot of assumed conclusions about the shift. Did Riker cause an uproar, which led to laws being established? Is it okay to kill your clone in the Federation but not Bajor?

Forget in-universe. What is this thread’s take on mental upload? Travelers is a great TV show, but even it seems to be unsure of digital consciousness when they reupload Marcy. Then again, Trevor talks about seeing his old body as a lifeless shell. San Junipero left me uncomfortably shaken for weeks after seeing that Black Mirror episode, unsure of how I felt about the idea of my kids’ generation mentally transferring themselves to post-death servers (I think the timeline is too soon for Gen X, which is basically who was uploading, let alone us millennials — but maybe for Zennials).

Does a soul follow consciousness? Is a soul tied to the original body only? Is the soul, in fact, consciousness?

 

[Glitch]

Off screen Will Riker found his transporter clone Thomas Riker in a Klingon bar getting drunk after being rescued from the Cardassian camp during the Klingon Cardassian proxy war and was serving on a Klingon battlecruiser as first officer then captain during the Dominion war. At the bar they got into a scuffle and one was vaporised, the survivor walked away and we don't know which Riker it is to this day. So at the end of season 3 Riker will reveal he's actually Thomas Riker and has been since the Titan and Picard will then kick him to the curb and send him on his way.

 

[The Predaking]

Off screen Will Riker found his transporter clone Thomas Riker in a Klingon bar getting drunk after being rescued from the Cardassian camp during the Klingon Cardassian proxy war and was serving on a Klingon battlecruiser as first officer then captain during the Dominion war. At the bar they got into a scuffle and one was vaporised, the survivor walked away and we don't know which Riker it is to this day. So at the end of season 3 Riker will reveal he's actually Thomas Riker and has been since the Titan and Picard will then kick him to the curb and send him on his way.

That would be very weird. It would however, explain why he suddenly wanted to get back with Troi more than just the briar patch making him feel young.

 

[Covert Agent Rodimal]

Off screen Will Riker found his transporter clone Thomas Riker in a Klingon bar getting drunk after being rescued from the Cardassian camp during the Klingon Cardassian proxy war and was serving on a Klingon battlecruiser as first officer then captain during the Dominion war. At the bar they got into a scuffle and one was vaporised, the survivor walked away and we don't know which Riker it is to this day. So at the end of season 3 Riker will reveal he's actually Thomas Riker and has been since the Titan and Picard will then kick him to the curb and send him on his way.

What if neither of them is a 'clone'? Both are technically Will Riker. They are more like identical twins raised in two different environments. They transported from the same spot. One rematerialized on the ship, the other on the planet. Who's to say which one is the 'real' Riker.

 

[The Predaking]

The real Riker is the one that we know. Thomas is cool, but he is still rash, set in his ways, and probably isn't in star fleet anymore after what he pulled on DS9, if he survived the Dominion war at all.

 

[Axaday]

The real Riker is the one that we know. Thomas is cool, but he is still rash, set in his ways, and probably isn't in star fleet anymore after what he pulled on DS9, if he survived the Dominion war at all.

Yes and no and no and yes and yes and no.

The real Riker is BY DEFINITION the one we know, because the only one we were ever REALLY meant to care about was a character on the show we were watching.

At the moment of the accident they were exactly the same and Thomas is what the real Riker would have become (in fact DID become) if he had been stranded on that planet.

 

[The Predaking]

Quite true.

They should really let us know what happened to Thomas Riker. Even if its just that he died in prison, was killed with the majority of the Maqi, or he is retired on Risa.

 

[Thefakelink]

The real Riker has a beard. The fake one has a goatee with false sideburns. Case closed.

 

[G.B.Blackrock]

Spoiler

We should keep in mind, even if the writers don’t, that Jean-Luc Picard is dead. The current one is a robotic copy that’s *treated* exactly the same but it isn’t any more than a Hologram of Jean-Luc would be. It can be patterned after him sure but you can’t transfer an actual soul into a Golem.

Spoiler

I don't think that this is a universally-agreed opinion. We'd have to define what a "soul" is, and for many, I think copying the entirety of a person's memories and personality would fit the definition.

 

[The Predaking]

Spoiler

I think it fits the definition, but I do recognize that its just a copy. Like when Q died, Picard got to welcome him to the beyond this time.

 

[MrBlud]

Spoilers for episode 3

Spoiler

NOW we’re getting interesting. So it’s the Changelings stirring things up. Presumably Lore is the more dangerous weapon they stole from the Daystrom Institute. BRUTAL conversation between Picard and Beverly. Masterfully done as both sides felt real and logical to their characters. I’m kinda having a hard time feeling out Vedic’s plan and how everything ties in. Is she a Changeling? Did they hire her? How does Lore factor in as a? the? Big bad. Why is Vedic after Picard specifically? Questions I’m sure they’ll answer as things progress but I thought we might have the framework by now. Frakes was great in his scenes too. I must say, being unfairly hard on Picard at the end there. Riker’s plan wasn’t working AT ALL and it’s clear Vedic doesn’t want the ship destroyed. Bit of an idiot ball moment they forgot about the portal tech. Also, what’s with everyone on the Titan being a petty asshole? Especially the Doctor. It’s been twenty years lady. Why are you talking to Crusher like she’s some kind of Neanderthal? Doubly so since it’s a mass casualty event and the tech you used wasn’t any ******* different than the stuff she did. Still, quite a great episode

 

[Axaday]

What Riker said to Picard just doesn't work for me.

 

[Thefakelink]

This is shaping up to be one heck of a road trip. Best episode yet and I can’t wait for next week.

Spoiler

I’m guessing Lore was taken from Daystrom, or somehow engineered a rescue from there. Was it ever confirmed if Lore was indeed at Daystrom? Or was that B-4? I’ll bet that’s also where Moriarty is being kept.
The only thing that’s not working for me is Picards sudden wrecklessness towards the end. Yes he’s not used to dealing an enemy with a portal gun, but he was insistent on attacking without thinking of the consequences. He knew they had a portal gun, why didn’t he think they wouldn’t use it again?

 

[The Predaking]

Woot! I can't wait to watch this tonight! I saw the scene last night when

Spoiler

Riker gets command of the Titan

 

[The Predaking]

Epic scene!

 

[Axaday]

This is shaping up to be one heck of a road trip. Best episode yet and I can’t wait for next week.

Spoiler

I’m guessing Lore was taken from Daystrom, or somehow engineered a rescue from there. Was it ever confirmed if Lore was indeed at Daystrom? Or was that B-4? I’ll bet that’s also where Moriarty is being kept.
The only thing that’s not working for me is Picards sudden wrecklessness towards the end. Yes he’s not used to dealing an enemy with a portal gun, but he was insistent on attacking without thinking of the consequences. He knew they had a portal gun, why didn’t he think they wouldn’t use it again?

I didn't think about them using it THAT way either.

 

[MrBlud]

What Riker said to Picard just doesn't work for me.

Yeah, I don’t get it. Option A wasn’t working. Option B turned out to be a bad idea but there only seemed to be the two Options short of surrender.

 

[Dake]

It had its moments...

Spoiler

Option A wasn't working but Option B sent them spiraling out of control into the gravity well. That being said, an argument could be made that had Riker been more aggressive sooner, they would've been able to take the shot from behind like Picard wanted and the Portal gun would not have been able to be brought to bear.

As for the attitudes of the Titan's crew - some old fossils did show up, commandeer their ship and immediately put all their lives in danger (just like their now-injured Captain forecast). Some bitterness is warranted.

Ultimately I'm so tired of these shows' main source of conflict stemming from people that can't communicate properly. It's a bit sad/ironic considering communication has been sort of fundamental to Star Trek.

Anyway, Raffi continues to be poorly written, but Worf is fun!

Plus, how has sensor technology not advanced to take nebular interference into account over the course of the last 116 years (since the battle of the Mutara Nebula for example)?

 

[Andrusi]

Spoiler

Count your blessings, folks. If I was in charge of this show, the thing/person/etc. stolen from Daystrom would turn out to be Peanut Hamper.