Star Trek: Picard

[Kalidor]

Couple things.

Spoiler

I agree that the Romulans probably took the cloak back but it's also something I don't think was general knowledge of it existing. It was likely a highly classified secret in the first place so no casual person would necessarily know about it.

Second, as others have said, I don't think that was actually Moriarty - just an extension of "Data's" memories. Much in the same way that version of Data last saw Riker in Nemesis so that was the version used in his perception of Riker with the photo.

 

[Kup]

Couple things.

Spoiler

I agree that the Romulans probably took the cloak back but it's also something I don't think was general knowledge of it existing. It was likely a highly classified secret in the first place so no casual person would necessarily know about it.

Second, as others have said, I don't think that was actually Moriarty - just an extension of "Data's" memories. Much in the same way that version of Data last saw Riker in Nemesis so that was the version used in his perception of Riker with the photo.

I don’t think that

Spoiler

The Defiant cloaking device is a concern at all, because I’m 90% sure the São Paulo version of the Defiant never cloaked. Pretty sure that tech was lost with the original ship at Chintoka.

 

[MrBlud]

Something I caught on first viewing that my friend did not

Spoiler

NuData identifies himself as M-5-10 which makes him the 10th iteration of Daystrom’s original M5. Not that he’s built on the same operating system or anything but a neat little nod like the Weapon Plus program in Marvel

 

[Kalidor]

If this had been done in Discovery day one people would have been a LOT more receptive of the show. I actually liked the story okay season 1 for the most part. I remember looking forward to watching it back to back with The Orville. But every minute of the show I was taken out of it by the blatant disregard and outright hostile redesigns from the "outdated" aesthetic.

Spoiler

 

[Axaday]

I don’t think that

Spoiler

The Defiant cloaking device is a concern at all, because I’m 90% sure the São Paulo version of the Defiant never cloaked. Pretty sure that tech was lost with the original ship at Chintoka.

Ah, you know what? That's spot on anyway.

 

[Axaday]

If this had been done in Discovery day one people would have been a LOT more receptive of the show. I actually liked the story okay season 1 for the most part. I remember looking forward to watching it back to back with The Orville. But every minute of the show I was taken out of it by the blatant disregard and outright hostile redesigns from the "outdated" aesthetic.

Spoiler

View attachment 12761

How do we reconcile this with Strange New Worlds?

I have forgiven Discovery and Strange New Worlds for THIS because I have bought in that

Spoiler

their version of the Enterprise fits better and is how they would design it if they could go back and fix it. Not so with most of Discovery's design choices,

 

[Dake]

How do we reconcile this with Strange New Worlds?

I have forgiven Discovery and Strange New Worlds for THIS because I have bought in that

Spoiler

their version of the Enterprise fits better and is how they would design it if they could go back and fix it. Not so with most of Discovery's design choices,

Yeah - it's a pretty weird decision considering they've gone all in on the whole "It's the Prime Universe" thing for Disco and SNW. Does this mean Picard takes place in an alternate universe then?

 

[Axaday]

It is still possible that the Enterprise on Strange New Worlds will be refit to look boxy and gray.

 

[Axaday]

I think I may have cracked their plan

Spoiler

The Changelings want Locutus. That’s why they took Picard’s body. The nanoprobes (or subroutines or whatever) were transferred to Jack when he was born (foreshadowed by the what I inherited from you speech). His visions are the Borg Collective reaching out to him. They’re red which was Locutus’ color. The Changelings in charge of Starfleet are the ones who pushed for all the ships to be interconnected into a Collective (over Geordi’s advice) so Frontier Day they’re going to give NuLocutus an entire Armada made of Federation ships to destroy the Federation.

I offer, free of charge, a refinement of your idea. I'm actually not sure as I reread you if you were already on my track.

Spoiler

They stole Jean-Luc's body because it still has some vital Borg tech in it, as evidenced vaguely by First Contact. That couldn't be removed while he was alive. I think all the stuff going on with Jack is just Iromodic Syndrome. Not something that happened when he was a kid or any kind of technology that someone transferred at conception. (I would have a very hard time accepting that.) I don't remember how Iromodic Syndrome was originally described. Season 1 fell in with my impression that it was a brain degenerative disease. Jean-Luc certainly seemed to be getting dementia in "All Good Things..." This last episode was the first time I heard it call "an over-clocked brain". That could be what is special about Jean-Luc's brain and now Jack's as well. To get my moderate objection out of the way, Locutus didn't network a bunch of ships. He fought a bunch of ships with ONE very superior ship and the network controlling it was in place when he arrived. I really think the original intent of Locutus was his knowledge of the ins and outs of Starfleet combat. But I wouldn't be surprised if they now said his overclocked brain made him an extraordinary drone.[/quote]

 

[The Predaking]

That would be awesome, but its something that the writers wouldn't think of. I learned in season 1 that we came up with better stuff here than the writers did.

Told you so!

 

[The Predaking]

Spoiler

I know the Romulans would have taken the Defiant (A)'s cloaking device back after the Dominion War, but it was super weird for everyone to be talking about the cloaking device on Kirk's stolen Bird of Prey immediately after talking about the Defiant and not mention it. Even though I think it's technically right that it wouldn't come up. The episode consisted entirely of fandom nods and I feel like I'm complaining that they missed one, but here I am.

I hadn't read the last few posts here before seeing the episode. Now I'm retroactively disappointed Moriarty wasn't the "key". I don't think it's unfair at this point to call him a trailer fakeout. After the reveal, Raffi refers to the Data amalgam as a "sophisticated AI" to make sure we get that that's what the rumor was about, but it doesn't make sense, because no one ever refers to Data as an AI anywhere else (he's very deliberate in always calling himself a synthetic life form and we more or less always saw others follow suit) and the Federation is roundly aware of Soong-type androids, "synths", and the Soong family per the first season of this show. (The fakeout might be forgivable if the reveal was something other than "Brent Spiner is in this season too and he's even older now." If Lore turns out to be just part of Data's identity crisis and doesn't have a plan of his own, then he'll have been a trailer fakeout too. Gotta love Picard gently eliding the fact when he says that he saw Data die, twice, that the second time was very much deliberate on Data's part.)

Why was Seven and Raffi's breakup necessary again? And if for some reason the writers couldn't conceive of a long distance relationship in their offtime at their respective posts, would it really be such a loss of dramatic potential to have had them peaceably go their separate ways? I guess I'd apologize for bringing up Season 2 too, show, fair play.

Cool ships though. What class is the Intrepid? Looked like the ships it met with were a reworked Excelsior and one of the two ships that subsequently show up at Daystrom?

Well, the original Defiant was destroyed at the fleet massacre when the Breen joined the war and disabled and then destroyed the entire fleet. That Defiant is the renamed Sao Paulo. I am not too sure it ever was given a cloaking device, as the original cloaking device was only given to them so that they could scout the Gamma Quadrant and share the intel.

 

[The Predaking]

What's crazy is that

Spoiler

the building blocks they are now playing with could make for one hell of a FRANCHISE finale.

• In the Star Trek subreddit, they are positing that somehow Jack (or his blood) will be the key to reviving Picard's body as Locutus, who will be controlled by the Changelings as a hive mind that commands the entire networked Federation fleet.

• Janeway could easily appear. We could feasibly see DS9 cast members appear (besides Worf). Hell, if you read the blurb about Kirk's body, it mentions that his body was retrieved for Project Phoenix..... meaning that since William Shatner is still alive.... KIRK COULD APPEAR!

• If the bad guys from the final battle are a fleet of Federation ships controlled by a hive mind, who are the good guys? The museum ships! Enterprise A, Defiant, Voyager for sure, and very likely NX-01, Excelsior, Enterprise E and the mystery in hangar bay 12.. a fully-restored Enterprise D (with a new stardrive section salvaged from a different decommissioned Galaxy class ship)!

Essentially you could in theory have an iconic big bad as the face of the enemy, fighting a team of pretty much every iconic hero ship in franchise history (aside from the Discovery which is in the future, and the TOS Enterprise and original Defiant which were completely destroyed), with core cast members appearing from most of the series.

If Star Trek were to end (which it won't), this is setting up a hell of a way to do it. Do I think any of this will happen? I'd say we could easily see most of it. I don't expect to see any more DS9 cast members or Kirk. I don't even think we will see the Enterprise E. I do think we are going to see Locutus and the Enterprise D though, and that our hero ships are going to fight the networked fleet. I think Shaw's line about hot dropping the D's saucer section on a planet was to remind us that it crashed so that when it returns, we are even more surprised.

Again, You are thinking of things that are better than what the writers can come up with. That line of thought only leads to disappointment.

 

[The Predaking]

Observations from TrekCulture to tie in to what’s being said:

Spoiler

So Daystrom Station is a certified House of Horrors with Archer, Kirk, and Picard’s body all there. Also, the NX-01 was just barely visible, or at least an NX class with the secondary hall attached to it.

I think the idea of Locutus controlling a hive of ships against the classic Hero ships makes a ton of sense.

Spoiler

I thought I saw an NX class ship there! when they first showed up, it looked like an NX ship was there.

 

[Axaday]

Well, the original Defiant was destroyed at the fleet massacre when the Breen joined the war and disabled and then destroyed the entire fleet. That Defiant is the renamed Sao Paulo. I am not too sure it ever was given a cloaking device, as the original cloaking device was only given to them so that they could scout the Gamma Quadrant and share the intel.

Spoiler

I'm really not sure how much either Jack or Seven know about that sort of thing, but it definitely isn't a plot hole or something now.

Seven is very smart and might have researched anything and Jack is shown early in the scene to be a starship hobbyist, but then he isn't familiar with Voyager and that is a little odd. It should be an uncommonly famous ship.

It kinda bothers me to show 1701-A and then say "Kirk's ship". Yeah, it was for a couple years. It isn't the one he did famous stuff in though. And that makes me feel like the writers don't think a lot of the audience is really going to want to get technical about it all.

All that to say, I doubt Jack or Seven even know the Defiant had a cloaking device. They weren't LOOKING for a cloaking device. The idea just popped into their heads when a side story about the Bounty popped it into their heads. I had already seen the episode title so the second I saw the Bounty, I thought they were going to steal THE BOUNTY and leave the Titan and most of her crew behind.

 

[Axaday]

I am going to have to watch this whole episode again, I guess.

 

[The Predaking]

Spoiler

I'm really not sure how much either Jack or Seven know about that sort of thing, but it definitely isn't a plot hole or something now.

Seven is very smart and might have researched anything and Jack is shown early in the scene to be a starship hobbyist, but then he isn't familiar with Voyager and that is a little odd. It should be an uncommonly famous ship.

It kinda bothers me to show 1701-A and then say "Kirk's ship". Yeah, it was for a couple years. It isn't the one he did famous stuff in though. And that makes me feel like the writers don't think a lot of the audience is really going to want to get technical about it all.

All that to say, I doubt Jack or Seven even know the Defiant had a cloaking device. They weren't LOOKING for a cloaking device. The idea just popped into their heads when a side story about the Bounty popped it into their heads. I had already seen the episode title so the second I saw the Bounty, I thought they were going to steal THE BOUNTY and leave the Titan and most of her crew behind.

Spoiler

I thought that they were going to hijack the Bounty too! I was kind of bummed that they didn't as we could have seen the cool bird of Prey interior again. However the cloak is a cool addition that they gave the Titan and a great way to get the LaForge family on board.

As for Jack calling the Enterprise A, Kirk's ship, it was Kirk's ship. He had it out of Space Dock, gave its shakedown cruise, took it to 'god', then had the entire Khitomer incident, and the ship was brought back and decommissioned after some joy riding form the legendary crew. So while it's not the original TOS ship, that they also stopped Khan and Vger in, it's an Enterprise ship that only Kirk captained and still did some historical things with.

As for the episode, I loved it!

Spoiler

I loved the reunions this episode! Having the cast interact like this is great and I can't wait to see more of them together.

I am now shipping Jack and Sidney. They have some great chemistry together, and I loved the whole "Stay away from my daughter" from Geordi scene.

Speaking of Geordi, he was great in this episode! I freaking loved his talks with Picard, his geeking out with Shaw over engineering repairs to the Titan, and his and Picard joint realization on who was stealing from the museum was epic and I had to rewind it.

So the Moriarty hologram was just a memory, and I am cool with that. While I like the idea of him being the AI program to defeat lore who's guarding Daystorm, I feel that this is fine as we get the Song android amalgam out of the way they wrote it. Did I hear him correctly and they also used Lal? Riker being taken hostage by Vadic, who is clearly a shape shifter now, is interesting. I like Riker's defiant nature, and I am wondering if that really is Troi or not. I can't wait to see Worf break them out of there!

As for what they needed Picard's body for? Maybe his voice and command codes? Maybe the borg parts inside of him? Who knows at this point? Not really enough to go on right now, other than they need Jack alive to make their Picard plan work. I kind of like the theory that Jack has Borg parts in his brain, but I am still leaning towards the super natural explanation for him.

So what did they show in the Daystorm station? People say they saw Kirk's body, but I missed that. I did see that Genesis device though!

So apparently this Fleet Museum that Geordi is in charge of is the original space dock! That is pretty awesome! Also, what is in Bay 12? I like the idea of a rebuilt Enterprise D, but it could also be the Excelsior, Enterprise B, Enterprise E, Enterprise F, or even the NX Refit Enterprise. Or maybe even something new?

 

[Axaday]

Spoiler

I
So apparently this Fleet Museum that Geordi is in charge of is the original space dock! That is pretty awesome! Also, what is in Bay 12? I like the idea of a rebuilt Enterprise D, but it could also be the Excelsior, Enterprise B, Enterprise E, Enterprise F, or even the NX Refit Enterprise. Or maybe even something new?

Spoiler

I didn't stop to look at what might be glimpsed because I didn't think it would pay off and I have no idea what Bay 12 is. But an out of service damage Enterprise-F is going to be on the show and it seems like this is where it would be.

 

[The Predaking]

Spoiler

I didn't stop to look at what might be glimpsed because I didn't think it would pay off and I have no idea what Bay 12 is. But an out of service damage Enterprise-F is going to be on the show and it seems like this is where it would be.

Spoiler

When Geordi and Picard are talking in the ready room, Geordi's other daughter mentions "what about what we have in Bay 12?" or something like that when they are talking about transponders and why he couldn't help them with that. Apparently, there is something there that doesn't have that ship hive mind or something. That makes me believe it's something epic that will come into play later that we aren't supposed to know yet so it probably wasn't shown.

Which is why it has to be a hero ship.

Since they shown the Defiant, Enterprise A, and Voyager, that leaves me with this list:

a rebuilt Enterprise D
the Excelsior
Enterprise B
Enterprise E
Enterprise F
the NX Refit Enterprise

 

[Axaday]

Spoiler

Since they shown the Defiant, Enterprise A, and Voyager, that leaves me with this list:

a rebuilt Enterprise D
the Excelsior
Enterprise B
Enterprise E
Enterprise F
the NX Refit Enterprise

Spoiler

I did some poking around and the NX-Refit Enterprise is outside. Freeze frame can catch it. Or anyway some Refit of that class. *I* love the Excelsior, but it or Enterprise-B wouldn't have the punch you are looking for. E would. And F would. I really don't think it is in keeping with what they are doing there to rebuild Enterprise-D. They are keeping relics here, but probably don't have the budget to build an entire Starship just to look at. WHY what is in Bay 12 is in Bay 12 is PROBABLY not to keep it a secret in story. This is a museum. So just from your list, I would deduce Enterprise-F. We were already spoiled that F is damaged and out of service, so likely it is in Bay 12 because it is being repaired and isn't ready for display. I will watch the scene again to get solid context. From where I am right now, I don't agree with your idea that what is in Bay 12 would be the lynchpin because it isn't networked to the fleet. I really don't think ANY of those ships would be on the network. They aren't intended to be used. There are 2 Klingon ships and a Romulan Bird of Prey, too. Why would those be on the network?

If Bay 12 IS a secret it is a private project of Geordi's and then it could be anything. But probably a giant scale replica of Leah Brahms.

 

[Kup]

Earlier in this thread I mentioned that

Spoiler

TrekCulture mentioned Archer's body was also at the House of Horrors.

However, I posted on Reddit with time stamps asking other fans who are better at identifying things like that, and we came to the conclusion that...

Spoiler

Whatever TrekCulture thinks they saw was probably something closer to "Aaretan Android Body" and not Jonathan Archer's Body".

That said, regarding...

Spoiler

Bay 12. There was a spot perfect for the Titan to dock, almost as if there is a ship under maintenance that had been removed. Plot convenience, sure, but probably one of the aforementioned Hero ships.

Also, with the worry about the Federation Collective providing easy access to each other's interstellar GPS location, perhaps we won't see the Titan much longer anyway? We get the Bay 12 ship maybe in Episode 8?

Also, on the topic of one of the big reveals, I don't think I've seen this posted in THIS thread yet, so be warned...

Spoiler

Here is what another Redditor was able to make out from Kirk's wall panel.

Starfleet officer James Tiberius Kirk [SC 937-0176 CEC] was Captain of the USS Enterprise NCC-1701 during its historic five-year mission of exploration in 2264-2269. By 2270 Kirk earned an impressive list of commendations from Starfleet, including the Palm Leaf of the Axanar Peace Mission, the Grankite Order of Tactics (Class of Excellence), and the Preantares Ribbon of Commendation (Classes First and Second), and the [unintelligible] Award for Space Exploration. Kirk's awards for valor included the Medal of Honor, the Silver Palm with Cluster, the Starfleet Citation for Conspicuous Gallantry, and the Kragite Order of Heroism. Captain Kirk was critically injured while assisting Captain Jean-Luc Picard during a [unintelligible] on Veridian II. His body was retrieved for Project Phoenix.

Considering the TOS biobed beeping, and the fact it says injured and not dead, I'm convinced Kirk is alive. For what purpose, who knows, even if its just an Easter Egg, I think the writers are trying to tell us something.