Star Trek: Picard

[Kup]

Spoiler

I did some poking around and the NX-Refit Enterprise is outside. Freeze frame can catch it. Or anyway some Refit of that class. *I* love the Excelsior, but it or Enterprise-B wouldn't have the punch you are looking for. E would. And F would. I really don't think it is in keeping with what they are doing there to rebuild Enterprise-D. They are keeping relics here, but probably don't have the budget to build an entire Starship just to look at. WHY what is in Bay 12 is in Bay 12 is PROBABLY not to keep it a secret in story. This is a museum. So just from your list, I would deduce Enterprise-F. We were already spoiled that F is damaged and out of service, so likely it is in Bay 12 because it is being repaired and isn't ready for display. I will watch the scene again to get solid context. From where I am right now, I don't agree with your idea that what is in Bay 12 would be the lynchpin because it isn't networked to the fleet. I really don't think ANY of those ships would be on the network. They aren't intended to be used. There are 2 Klingon ships and a Romulan Bird of Prey, too. Why would those be on the network?

If Bay 12 IS a secret it is a private project of Geordi's and then it could be anything. But probably a giant scale replica of Leah Brahms.

I do everything I can to avoid spoilers, but since this season began there's been two giant potential spoilers that seem to be aligning in a specific way. If you don't want to be ruined (I wouldn't), then DO NOT CLICK THIS SPOILER TAG.

It's still speculation, mind you, but when 2+2=4...you kinda assume things make sense.

Again. WARNING. DO NOT CLICK IF YOU'RE AIMING TO BE 100% SPOILER FREE.

Spoiler

Two comments point to the Bay 12 ship being the Enterprise D saucer attached to the secondary hull of another Galaxy class ship. I'm guessing one that may have been damaged during the Dominion War, and Geordi is syncing the systems up or something in Bay 12.

Reason 1: Steward is purported to have said something about "forgetting" there used to be carpet on the bridge. This only makes sense if they're revisiting something from the past.

Reason 2: Supposedly, in a now-deleted Tweet Levar Burton posted a photo of him in the new uniform but on the D's bridge. Perhaps just a proud photoshop, or perhaps a set selfie.

Either way, with the secrecy of the Bay 12 ship, and these two comments taken together, my gut tells me we're getting the D back in action for the finale.

If anyone quotes or includes this post in a reply, PLEASE make it clear that this is a spoiler you do NOT want to click if you're aiming to finish the season without any inclination of what's happening. I wouldn't want someone else to click this unknowingly.

 

[Axaday]

It's still speculation, mind you, but when 2+2=4...you kinda assume things make sense.

That's really hinty sort of stuff, I guess, but

Spoiler

the producers were specifically asked early on if Enterprise-F was going to be our ride in this show and he said no, but it would figure into the end of the show in a way he couldn't talk about yet.

 

[The Predaking]

Spoiler

I did some poking around and the NX-Refit Enterprise is outside. Freeze frame can catch it. Or anyway some Refit of that class. *I* love the Excelsior, but it or Enterprise-B wouldn't have the punch you are looking for. E would. And F would. I really don't think it is in keeping with what they are doing there to rebuild Enterprise-D. They are keeping relics here, but probably don't have the budget to build an entire Starship just to look at. WHY what is in Bay 12 is in Bay 12 is PROBABLY not to keep it a secret in story. This is a museum. So just from your list, I would deduce Enterprise-F. We were already spoiled that F is damaged and out of service, so likely it is in Bay 12 because it is being repaired and isn't ready for display. I will watch the scene again to get solid context. From where I am right now, I don't agree with your idea that what is in Bay 12 would be the lynchpin because it isn't networked to the fleet. I really don't think ANY of those ships would be on the network. They aren't intended to be used. There are 2 Klingon ships and a Romulan Bird of Prey, too. Why would those be on the network?

If Bay 12 IS a secret it is a private project of Geordi's and then it could be anything. But probably a giant scale replica of Leah Brahms.

Spoiler

Bay 12 has something in it that will help them travel without being tracked, or at least Geordi's daughter thinks so. I am assuming its a hero ship, and I like the idea of a salvaged Enterprise D a lot more than the F or even the E. Sure, the F and the E are a lot more powerful ships, but the Enterprise D is probably the second most Iconic federation starship behind the original TOS enterprise. The F hasn't ever been seen in canon other than the trailer, so it might be getting repaired elsewhere since that ship is a new and an active class starship compared to the probably all retired by this point Galaxy class. The Enterprise E, as much as I loved it twenty-five years ago, didn't get the love it deserves, with it only being in three movies and some video games, so it showing up probably isn't happening. With you catching the NX refit class outside, it probably won't be that ship either. I doubt is either of the Excelsior class ships for the same reasons as I don't think it will be the Enterprise E. Which makes me think, Enterprise D is being repaired and rebuilt.

Having Geordi in charge of the Enterprise D's restoration/reconstruction would make sense since he rewrote the book on the Galaxy class, and doing so in space dock would be completely feasible and not remotely out of the ordinary since they used to do repair and construction work inside of Space Dock before they replaced it. If Starfleet can turn a Luna class ship into a neo constitution class, they can get the aforementioned saucer section and pair it up with a stardrive section. Considering how many Galaxy class ships were damaged in the Dominion War and that whatever Galaxy class ships that were left would have been all retired or regulated to light transport service by now, there should be plenty of parts to match up and repair the D.

However, all this speculation is getting my hopes up, so let's just see where they go with it.

 

[The Predaking]

Earlier in this thread I mentioned that

Spoiler

TrekCulture mentioned Archer's body was also at the House of Horrors.

However, I posted on Reddit with time stamps asking other fans who are better at identifying things like that, and we came to the conclusion that...

Spoiler

Whatever TrekCulture thinks they saw was probably something closer to "Aaretan Android Body" and not Jonathan Archer's Body".

That said, regarding...

Spoiler

Bay 12. There was a spot perfect for the Titan to dock, almost as if there is a ship under maintenance that had been removed. Plot convenience, sure, but probably one of the aforementioned Hero ships.

Also, with the worry about the Federation Collective providing easy access to each other's interstellar GPS location, perhaps we won't see the Titan much longer anyway? We get the Bay 12 ship maybe in Episode 8?

Also, on the topic of one of the big reveals, I don't think I've seen this posted in THIS thread yet, so be warned...

Spoiler

Here is what another Redditor was able to make out from Kirk's wall panel.

Starfleet officer James Tiberius Kirk [SC 937-0176 CEC] was Captain of the USS Enterprise NCC-1701 during its historic five-year mission of exploration in 2264-2269. By 2270 Kirk earned an impressive list of commendations from Starfleet, including the Palm Leaf of the Axanar Peace Mission, the Grankite Order of Tactics (Class of Excellence), and the Preantares Ribbon of Commendation (Classes First and Second), and the [unintelligible] Award for Space Exploration. Kirk's awards for valor included the Medal of Honor, the Silver Palm with Cluster, the Starfleet Citation for Conspicuous Gallantry, and the Kragite Order of Heroism. Captain Kirk was critically injured while assisting Captain Jean-Luc Picard during a [unintelligible] on Veridian II. His body was retrieved for Project Phoenix.

Considering the TOS biobed beeping, and the fact it says injured and not dead, I'm convinced Kirk is alive. For what purpose, who knows, even if its just an Easter Egg, I think the writers are trying to tell us something.

Spoiler

I would love to see Kirk coming back as a cameo at the end of the season. That would be a cool fanboy thing to do, and it would explain why Sulu was at Kirk's ranch in the afterlife instead of Kirk.

 

[Dake]

You know (thought about the big potential spoiler Kup tossed out above)...

Spoiler

The D starts to make sense with all the other little bits dropped here and there. From the eariler episode when Riker asked about why there were so many D models still available and the bartender said no one wanted the "fat" one, to the comment from Shaw about how many saucer separations they'd done up to crashing so Picard get some alien nookie. They've definitely spent some time sort of priming the audience for/about the D.

Honestly, the only point against it is all of those little docking ring things are the same size and the OTS Constitution/Refit class fills one up - meanwhile a Galaxy class is waaay bigger than everything else.

 

[Axaday]

You know (thought about the big potential spoiler Kup tossed out above)...

Spoiler

The D starts to make sense with all the other little bits dropped here and there. From the eariler episode when Riker asked about why there were so many D models still available and the bartender said no one wanted the "fat" one, to the comment from Shaw about how many saucer separations they'd done up to crashing so Picard get some alien nookie. They've definitely spent some time sort of priming the audience for/about the D.

Honestly, the only point against it is all of those little docking ring things are the same size and the OTS Constitution/Refit class fills one up - meanwhile a Galaxy class is waaay bigger than everything else.

Spoiler

That is actually a reason FOR it. Maybe Bay 12 isn't secretive at all. It is just the only place big enough for a Galaxy-Class. Bay 12 might be that huge indoor room that we always saw ships in before.

 

[Axaday]

Spoiler

Grabbing a 150-year-old cloaking device (besides, a cloaking device wouldn't be a box you could grab and carry and plug in to do its work) from a small ship that is old and is Klingon and running it over to a brand new, much bigger Starfleet ship and having it almost work on first try and totally work here in a minute is really weird stuff. It reminds of "I command you to attach my head to Cybertron and give me Trypticon's cog so I can totally become a transforming planet again."

 

[The Predaking]

You know (thought about the big potential spoiler Kup tossed out above)...

Spoiler

The D starts to make sense with all the other little bits dropped here and there. From the eariler episode when Riker asked about why there were so many D models still available and the bartender said no one wanted the "fat" one, to the comment from Shaw about how many saucer separations they'd done up to crashing so Picard get some alien nookie. They've definitely spent some time sort of priming the audience for/about the D.

Honestly, the only point against it is all of those little docking ring things are the same size and the OTS Constitution/Refit class fills one up - meanwhile a Galaxy class is waaay bigger than everything else.

Spoiler

I would remind you that the docking rings around Space Dock (I am just going to refer to it as that since its the original and the one we knew from multiple moves and TNG), had a lot of different ships in them. The Defiant, Voyager, Constitution, Constitution Refit, The Bounty, a D6 (I thought I saw one), and a Romulan Bird of Prey. Those docking rings around the ships are not the same size. It looked like just surrounded the ships with various amounts of free space.

And besides, Bay 12 sounds like it might be one of the internal bays of Space Dock.

 

[The Predaking]

Spoiler

Grabbing a 150-year-old cloaking device (besides, a cloaking device wouldn't be a box you could grab and carry and plug in to do its work) from a small ship that is old and is Klingon and running it over to a brand new, much bigger Starfleet ship and having it almost work on first try and totally work here in a minute is really weird stuff. It reminds of "I command you to attach my head to Cybertron and give me Trypticon's cog so I can totally become a transforming planet again."

Spoiler

Well, it was a LaForge and a Picard doing it so....

 

[Copper Bezel]

Spoiler

I desperately hope it isn't the D because I too dislike the fat one. I honestly thought I was meant to assume Bay 12 was the Bounty and it was a matter of different people having the same idea. If it's a large hero ship we haven't seen I hope it's the F but that feels off to me for the reasons the D feels too on-point. This story doesn't need another ship.

How do we reconcile this with Strange New Worlds?

I have forgiven Discovery and Strange New Worlds for THIS because I have bought in that

Spoiler

their version of the Enterprise fits better and is how they would design it if they could go back and fix it. Not so with most of Discovery's design choices,

Spoiler

You reconcile it by saying if it was close enough when it was different it's now close enough when it's the same.

Spoiler

Grabbing a 150-year-old cloaking device (besides, a cloaking device wouldn't be a box you could grab and carry and plug in to do its work) from a small ship that is old and is Klingon and running it over to a brand new, much bigger Starfleet ship and having it almost work on first try and totally work here in a minute is really weird stuff. It reminds of "I command you to attach my head to Cybertron and give me Trypticon's cog so I can totally become a transforming planet again."

Spoiler

The other reason I was stuck on the Defiant while I was watching the episode ... but with that lapse corrected, I'm content to say "LaForge family magic".

Spoiler

I'm really not sure how much either Jack or Seven know about that sort of thing, but it definitely isn't a plot hole or something now.

Spoiler

Now that this has fully blossomed into a "thing", I need to make clear that 1) I started it and 2) I said it wasn't a plot hole in the same post because the Romulans would have taken back the cloaking device I thought the Sao Paulo / Defiant A had anyway. Kalidor and others noted that it would have been a secret if it did have one, and Kup then correctly noted that the Sao Paulo / Defiant A never had a cloaking device to begin with.

If Starfleet can turn a Luna class ship into a neo constitution class

They can't, this is the Titan-A, it's on the livery. The Titan was a Luna Class, and we saw from Lower Decks that it had a TNG-movie lifestyle that was going to get it blown up sooner or later. The Titan-A was a neocon, and launched as the Titan-A to replace Riker's ship. We never saw what it looked like in its first twenty years or so of service, and it was only refit immediately before this season of Picard. Most of its life was under Riker's command, but it had moved to Shaw before the refit, and Shaw's more familiar with it now because he was around for the refit and because he's an engineer at heart.

Edit: The only ship ever refit into its own -A was the Discovery, which was a 32nd century ship built around a 23rd century spore drive and bridge set.

Spoiler

I'm missing the forest for the trees though. It's gotta be said that the Geordi / Sidney / Jack stuff was the core of this episode and was good character stuff. I don't have a lot to say about it, but it was on point. LaForge running the fleet museum and Jack not only not being too cool for school, but revealing that the one hole in his cynicism is his love for starships were extremely fan pandering in the right way and gave me good feels, like Lower Decks stuff.

 

[Dekafox]

Spoiler

Grabbing a 150-year-old cloaking device (besides, a cloaking device wouldn't be a box you could grab and carry and plug in to do its work) from a small ship that is old and is Klingon and running it over to a brand new, much bigger Starfleet ship and having it almost work on first try and totally work here in a minute is really weird stuff. It reminds of "I command you to attach my head to Cybertron and give me Trypticon's cog so I can totally become a transforming planet again."

Well

Spoiler

To be fair, that's EXACTLY how it worked in The Enterprise Incident. Snatch a Romulan cloaking device, conveniently in a box, plug it into Federation systems that were built with no idea how it worked, and away went Kirk and the Enterprise. This time instead of jury-rigging completely unknown alien tech, they're mixing in old known alien tech, so that's about on the same level probably, and the real challenge was just overclocking it to handle the Titan's size.

 

[The Predaking]

They can't, this is the Titan-A, it's on the livery. The Titan was a Luna Class, and we saw from Lower Decks that it had a TNG-movie lifestyle that was going to get it blown up sooner or later. The Titan-A was a neocon, and launched as the Titan-A to replace Riker's ship. We never saw what it looked like in its first twenty years or so of service, and it was only refit immediately before this season of Picard. Most of its life was under Riker's command, but it had moved to Shaw before the refit, and Shaw's more familiar with it now because he was around for the refit and because he's an engineer at heart.

Edit: The only ship ever refit into its own -A was the Discovery, which was a 32nd century ship built around a 23rd century spore drive and bridge set.

As much as I want this to be a new ship, the evidence pilling up makes me think it's a refit of Riker's Luna class ship.

1. Shaw mentions that the warp Nacelles are 20 years old and no one in his crew knows how to work on them. (That is a bit weird given that the crew should be able to, but it made a good story point for the episode for Shaw to contribute.) If you look back 20 years ago, Riker had just taken command of the brand new Luna class Titan at the end of the last film.
2. Riker definitely filled up the computer with Jazz. Shaw mentions in the dinner greeting them about it. So he captained the ship. Plus Picard calls it Riker's "Old command".
3. There already was a Federation ship called the Titan before the Luna class ship.
4. The Neo Constitution class ship supposedly launch under Shaw's command according to memory alpha.


Things I can't recall exactly but think I remember:

a. They call the Titan a Refit
b. Riker said it was a new class to Picard


Honestly, I like the idea that its a new ship better than a refit, but I think that the story is trying to say it's a refit.

 

[Copper Bezel]

a. They call the Titan a Refit
b. Riker said it was a new class to Picard

It's unquestionably a refit, and Riker comments on the new ship smell. Presumably it's not a refit of an actual Constitution class ship either. It's also absolutely Riker's old command and the ship he spent most of the last 20 years on. We're not disagreeing on any of those facts. The only thing I disagree on is that it was Riker's new command after Nemesis and not his new replacement Titan two years later or something.

 

[Axaday]

Something like that is necessary to make it work, but the real problem is sloppy writing.

 

[tec]

This ep was insane but my biggest take away from all this.....

My baby the Enterprise A/Refit lives!!!! I was right about this for a very long time going all the way back to 90s
This makes me very very happy

 

[Axaday]

I have always assumed the Enterprise-A was the ship we saw disabled at the start of Star Trek 4. A starship crew cannot survive very long with no power, so there'd be no one to mind when it got a new name and crew. I just went to look and apparently there is very little said, but what is said at least suggests that it was really a brand new built starship on an old class that was destined to be put out to pasture in about..6 or 7 years? That story doesn't make much sense to me.

The Constitution-2 is certainly a pretty ship. No Excelsior, of course, but pretty just the same.

 

[tec]

The ship a the start of 4..... but once the probe left the area they would get there power back and starships have a ton of backup just in case yeah the ship was in distrss but once the probe left that area of space power should have been restores to all ships in the area

 

[Axaday]

The ship a the start of 4..... but once the probe left the area they would get there power back and starships have a ton of backup just in case yeah the ship was in distrss but once the probe left that area of space power should have been restores to all ships in the area

How long would the power be out and how long can they survive?

 

[Dake]

Spoiler

I would remind you that the docking rings around Space Dock (I am just going to refer to it as that since its the original and the one we knew from multiple moves and TNG), had a lot of different ships in them. The Defiant, Voyager, Constitution, Constitution Refit, The Bounty, a D6 (I thought I saw one), and a Romulan Bird of Prey. Those docking rings around the ships are not the same size. It looked like just surrounded the ships with various amounts of free space.

And besides, Bay 12 sounds like it might be one of the internal bays of Space Dock.

I don't know

Spoiler

At the initial approach, the rings all appeared symmetrical and yeah - you could see that the Bounty looked tiny in one, but the close up of the Jersey showed it pretty-well filled the ring. So yeah, it stands to reason "Bay 12" must be somewhere else. I like the idea of it being inside the space dock.

I have always assumed the Enterprise-A was the ship we saw disabled at the start of Star Trek 4. A starship crew cannot survive very long with no power, so there'd be no one to mind when it got a new name and crew. I just went to look and apparently there is very little said, but what is said at least suggests that it was really a brand new built starship on an old class that was destined to be put out to pasture in about..6 or 7 years? That story doesn't make much sense to me.

The Constitution-2 is certainly a pretty ship. No Excelsior, of course, but pretty just the same.

I thought it was established in canon that the 1701-A had been designed as something else and was renamed prior to coming out of the dock. It's not totally clear which ship (either the Atlantis or the Ti-Ho) but it was basically complete prior to being rechristened.

 

[tec]

Memory Alpha Quote
In 2286, the Enterprise-A was commissioned at the San Francisco Fleet Yards on stardate 8442.5. It was launched from Spacedock on the order of the Federation Council in appreciation of Captain James T. Kirk and his crew's efforts to prevent the Whale Probe from devastating Earth. The crew initially thought they were going to be assigned to a "freighter" at best, according to Leonard McCoy or the USS Excelsior, but the new Enterprise was soon revealed, docked next to the Excelsior. The crew took their stations and the Enterprise left Spacedock on a shakedown cruise. (Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home)

Memory Beta
When construction began on the Enterprise-A in the early 2280s, the ship was named the USS Ti-Ho and assigned the registry number, NCC-1798. Though resembling a Constitution-class rebuild, Ti-Ho was built new from the keel up. The Ti-Ho was to serve as a test-bed for transwarp drive which was also being tested on the USS Excelsior.
Construction of the Ti-Ho was largely completed by 2285, but shortly afterwards transwarp drive was proved a failure and Starfleet Command decided to equip the Ti-Ho with conventional warp drive. (ST reference: Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise)

Gene Roddenberry suggested that the Enterprise-A was originally named USS Yorktown, as an explanation for how she could've been built quickly enough to replace the original Enterprise. It is unclear whether he was suggesting it was the same Yorktown said to have been disabled by the whale probe earlier in the film, or a replacement already under construction. (ST reference: The Star Trek Encyclopedia)


So yes and no if you go by Beta cannon