Star Trek: Strange New Worlds
- Thread starter SHIELD Agent 47
- Start date
I'm not too interested in what the showrunners say on Twitter after the fact and after fans have speculated a bunch of possibilities for them. I mean, that'll be canon going forward, but it doesn't clear up what they intended in the episode as aired. Like Cybersnark's saying, I'm suspicious whether there's a real answer.
Maybe they thought the optics of having the Enterprise destroy something that looks like the Discovery on screen just before Discovery's final season were a little too mean.
It shouldn't have been the biggest thing to stick out this episode for me, but there was so little actual story that all I have are details. And it's awkward because SNW is the Trek series I've been most excited about and this is just not a good first showing for S2. I know that stealing the Enterprise was the point of the plot and everything else came to justify it, but I'm not sure they succeeded. If a Starfleet cruiser showing up at Pandora was going to be treated as an act of war, wouldn't they have been better off stealing literally any other ship to get there? The trip to Pandora and even the beam-down are skipped in a scene transition. The dialogue told us that it would be really bad if a Starfleet cruiser went there, and then it turned out they could have done the thing they intended to do with any old ship. It's all so contrived.
Then we have to have two humans with super go juice beat up whole rooms full of Klingons with no ill effects on themselves, and the fake Starfleet ship built from scratch to resemble a Starfleet ship has a couple of pieces of an EV suit in the EV suit closets because they wanted the debris after the ship was destroyed to be convincing but didn't want to pay out for a full set?
And what was with that camera flip when they went through the floor hatch?
Maybe they thought the optics of having the Enterprise destroy something that looks like the Discovery on screen just before Discovery's final season were a little too mean.
It shouldn't have been the biggest thing to stick out this episode for me, but there was so little actual story that all I have are details. And it's awkward because SNW is the Trek series I've been most excited about and this is just not a good first showing for S2. I know that stealing the Enterprise was the point of the plot and everything else came to justify it, but I'm not sure they succeeded. If a Starfleet cruiser showing up at Pandora was going to be treated as an act of war, wouldn't they have been better off stealing literally any other ship to get there? The trip to Pandora and even the beam-down are skipped in a scene transition. The dialogue told us that it would be really bad if a Starfleet cruiser went there, and then it turned out they could have done the thing they intended to do with any old ship. It's all so contrived.
Then we have to have two humans with super go juice beat up whole rooms full of Klingons with no ill effects on themselves, and the fake Starfleet ship built from scratch to resemble a Starfleet ship has a couple of pieces of an EV suit in the EV suit closets because they wanted the debris after the ship was destroyed to be convincing but didn't want to pay out for a full set?
And what was with that camera flip when they went through the floor hatch?
As far as those details:
My impression of the camera flip was that gravity plane changed and they were now upside-down compared to before, but Trek ships usually keep gravity in the same plane for all decks. If it wasn't that then it was just plain confusing.
As for the "go-juice", I read it as a take on what they called "the tick" in David Weber's Path of the Fury books. It was a special drug that Marines took in that universe that increased the speed of your data processing and thinking capabilities, so that you had all the time you needed to consciously recognize and react to your enemy's moves and movements. Beating the Klingons makes sense to me under the influence of that, as they could see each strike the Klingon was about to do and had plenty of time mentally to see it, decide how to dodge or counter it, or what openings the Klingons had to strike, and then move to strike before the Klingon could react properly.
I'm sure Weber isn't the only one with something similar of course, but unlike the Shadowrun equivalent, it doesn't make you move faster, it just lets you see and decide what to do. It makes -every- movement purposeful, and that was how they seemed to be acting. Of course in the Fury version, when the user comes down off the Tick, they usually end up puking their guts out, so that does make this a little -too- clean here... maybe it has addictive properties in the Trek version, and that's why we don't see Starfleet Marines riding the tick all the time?
As for the "go-juice", I read it as a take on what they called "the tick" in David Weber's Path of the Fury books. It was a special drug that Marines took in that universe that increased the speed of your data processing and thinking capabilities, so that you had all the time you needed to consciously recognize and react to your enemy's moves and movements. Beating the Klingons makes sense to me under the influence of that, as they could see each strike the Klingon was about to do and had plenty of time mentally to see it, decide how to dodge or counter it, or what openings the Klingons had to strike, and then move to strike before the Klingon could react properly.
I'm sure Weber isn't the only one with something similar of course, but unlike the Shadowrun equivalent, it doesn't make you move faster, it just lets you see and decide what to do. It makes -every- movement purposeful, and that was how they seemed to be acting. Of course in the Fury version, when the user comes down off the Tick, they usually end up puking their guts out, so that does make this a little -too- clean here... maybe it has addictive properties in the Trek version, and that's why we don't see Starfleet Marines riding the tick all the time?
I'll have to rewatch at least that scene. I thought they were doing a cool thing with the deck plating orientation when the camera started spinning but by the time they got to the bottom, the hatch that had been in the floor was in the ceiling of the level below, so I'm almost positive they didn't do anything clever. If they were playing with gravity orientation the hatch would be on the floor on both sides or something. And yeah, that would have been very unexpected on a Starfleet ship. I thought perhaps the trick was going to have something to do with the gravity plating in the hatch itself or something, but it just didn't materialize.
The go-juice having an effect on their reaction speeds only would be slightly better. When Chapel punched a Klingon in the head ridges and we heard a snapping sound, I assumed it was her fingers breaking; if the drug just made them react faster, not move faster, it wouldn't be tearing them up in the process like that. But there wasn't anything to tell us one way or the other, and yeah, the bigger question is, if it doesn't have any massive and immediate side effects, why have we never heard of it before.
But if it had trailed off and left them with numerous broken bones and internal injuries and barely conscious, I wouldn't have to ask why we don't regularly see it around. Like the Federation or Klingons wouldn't use it, but you know the Romulans, Cardassians, Orions, etc. would love it.
The go-juice having an effect on their reaction speeds only would be slightly better. When Chapel punched a Klingon in the head ridges and we heard a snapping sound, I assumed it was her fingers breaking; if the drug just made them react faster, not move faster, it wouldn't be tearing them up in the process like that. But there wasn't anything to tell us one way or the other, and yeah, the bigger question is, if it doesn't have any massive and immediate side effects, why have we never heard of it before.
But if it had trailed off and left them with numerous broken bones and internal injuries and barely conscious, I wouldn't have to ask why we don't regularly see it around. Like the Federation or Klingons wouldn't use it, but you know the Romulans, Cardassians, Orions, etc. would love it.
From the way it was presented, I got the feeling it wasn't an official thing, but something M'Benga or Chapel had invented during the war and carried around in secret because they were ashamed of it and/or it was highly illegal/unethical.
It actually reminded me of the Augments, though that would require revisiting the Qu'Vat virus and drawing even more attention to what Klingons are supposed to look like.
It actually reminded me of the Augments, though that would require revisiting the Qu'Vat virus and drawing even more attention to what Klingons are supposed to look like.
That entire issue should have been settled at "We do not discuss it with outsiders."
Yeah, the camera rotation seemed like they were showing a grav shift but then it wound up pointing the same way as it started, so it didn't really make sense. Just a silly camera trick.
As for the go juice, I chalk it up to the classic Trek trope of inventing something for a scene that we never see or hear about again. Since this takes place during TOS era, it only makes sense we'd see more of that.
As to how it works, I agree that it heightens awareness for the taker giving the impression of slowed time (based on the camera work basically), but it also seems to introduce some sort of pain inhibitor, because we don't see Chapel feel pain until after she comments that it's wearing off. It doesn't really explain how they're not significantly damaging themselves in the process but ya know... nanotech or something.
There were no non-Starfleet ships available to them in the moment, so that wouldn't have been a solution.
The only reason it worked out the way it did was because they prevented the fake vessel from completing its mission. Just showing up for fun would've been a direct treaty violation.
As for the go juice, I chalk it up to the classic Trek trope of inventing something for a scene that we never see or hear about again. Since this takes place during TOS era, it only makes sense we'd see more of that.
As to how it works, I agree that it heightens awareness for the taker giving the impression of slowed time (based on the camera work basically), but it also seems to introduce some sort of pain inhibitor, because we don't see Chapel feel pain until after she comments that it's wearing off. It doesn't really explain how they're not significantly damaging themselves in the process but ya know... nanotech or something.There were no non-Starfleet ships available to them in the moment, so that wouldn't have been a solution.
The only reason it worked out the way it did was because they prevented the fake vessel from completing its mission. Just showing up for fun would've been a direct treaty violation.
Yeah, I think you two are right about the go juice. I watched it again and the slow-motion bits definitely seemed to be implying something like that. And I guess it makes as much sense as not that Dr. Mbenga invented it, and it's far from the only thing that shows up in a Star Trek episode and seems like it would be incredibly convenient in a lot of other cases but never appears again. I still don't like it - I think there are more satisfying ways they could have used this situation to show us that Dr. Mbenga is actually a secret badass.
As for the treaty violation angle, you and I know how it worked out, but Spock didn't know in advance. All he would have known about Pandora from a Starfleet database is the exposition La'an gives when the crew arrives, I.e. that it's the single dumbest place in the quadrant to bring the Starfleet flagship (this month). La'an's message said nothing about expecting a space firefight, because she didn't know about the Crossfake at that point either. Spock and co. didn't even seem to know in advance that they'd be able to hide in the planetary ring, which was the big reason that the Enterprise didn't cause a treaty violation just by showing up in orbit. So the way it worked out doesn't explain why they did what they did in the first place.
Things pretty clearly operated the other way around, the story had to provide a way to hide the Enterprise and something for it to do once they were there. A story where they only brought a shuttle instead would probably involve everyone ending up on board the Crossfake and foiling the plan from on board. (And presumably they'd have to disable the weapons, and no one would know whether or not Chapel was clear of the Jefferies tube when Spock had to push the big red button at the last second before it opened fire on the D7, etc.)
They were in the Sol system. There would have been an abundance of civilian ships to steal. Hell, we've even just been told this episode that Starfleet shuttlecraft have reasonably fast warp engines. They'd be a lot lower profile than a starship, and the remaining half of the bridge crew who somehow manned the Enterprise this episode would fit just as easily in the Galileo. And they might have got one of those just by asking.
As for the treaty violation angle, you and I know how it worked out, but Spock didn't know in advance. All he would have known about Pandora from a Starfleet database is the exposition La'an gives when the crew arrives, I.e. that it's the single dumbest place in the quadrant to bring the Starfleet flagship (this month). La'an's message said nothing about expecting a space firefight, because she didn't know about the Crossfake at that point either. Spock and co. didn't even seem to know in advance that they'd be able to hide in the planetary ring, which was the big reason that the Enterprise didn't cause a treaty violation just by showing up in orbit. So the way it worked out doesn't explain why they did what they did in the first place.
Things pretty clearly operated the other way around, the story had to provide a way to hide the Enterprise and something for it to do once they were there. A story where they only brought a shuttle instead would probably involve everyone ending up on board the Crossfake and foiling the plan from on board. (And presumably they'd have to disable the weapons, and no one would know whether or not Chapel was clear of the Jefferies tube when Spock had to push the big red button at the last second before it opened fire on the D7, etc.)
In Spock's defense, La'an's message specifically called for the presence of the Enterprise. For all Spock knew, there was some item or piece of tech on the ship itself that she desperately needed, so it makes logical sense to bring the whole ship (and then keep out of sight as best they can until they can gather more intel).
Possibly. Ultimately, I fault the plot less simply because they had the foresight to have the security officer specifically request the whole starship, despite the salient points made already in this thread whereby a smaller ship would typically make more sense. All I have to do is say "Well, La'an thought it necessary to ask for the Enterprise," and my mind is at ease, almost without regard to whatever her reasoning actually was. It's enough for me to assume she had reasons.
Yeah, I had missed that. "Resources of Enterprise critical." La'an couldn't have known that would be as difficult as it was, because she would have assumed it'd just be Pike convincing Starfleet command that this was a mission needing Enterprise's attention and that if Pike was coming, it'd be with the Enterprise. Meanwhile the best Spock could do under the circumstances was to bring the Enterprise itself even without 95% of its crew. So from La'an's hunch to Spock's assumption to the unexpected threat, it just about strings together.
I still think it would have been a better and less contrived episode without all that. But I guess the one thing they really couldn't have done without the Enterprise is introduce our new chief engineer, and she's the best thing in the episode, so.
I still think it would have been a better and less contrived episode without all that. But I guess the one thing they really couldn't have done without the Enterprise is introduce our new chief engineer, and she's the best thing in the episode, so.
The wife and I finally got around to watching this episode last night. I really liked it. You got to see Spock dealing with his emotions, and even get a little tipsy with the Klingons at the end. I love that this show re-enforces how far Spock and the crew are willing to go to help their friends.
As for the fake ship plot, I thought it was good, and I liked that Spock was hesitant to the last second before blowing it up due to two of his favorite people being aboard the ship.
Also love that the doc was the one that gave Spock his musical instrument to help with his stress.
I am interested to see how far we get with a gorn war this season. I would love to see more of that.
As for the fake ship plot, I thought it was good, and I liked that Spock was hesitant to the last second before blowing it up due to two of his favorite people being aboard the ship.
Also love that the doc was the one that gave Spock his musical instrument to help with his stress.
I am interested to see how far we get with a gorn war this season. I would love to see more of that.
This week's episode really should have been the season premiere.
(I get the behind the scenes reason, but, still...)
(I get the behind the scenes reason, but, still...)
Oh, what was the behind the scenes reason?
I've heard in multiple places that Anson Mount's wife had given birth, so he took some time off to be with her (understandably!)
Checks out. I do think Dake is right though, the way things worked out seems good for pacing. This last episode - not much of it rang true for me, it had the "and everyone clapped" energy of Unification III, and it wrapped up Una's secret augmentations plot just after the previous episode drilled down on the impending Gorn threat, which is exactly the reverse of what I'd like to have happened with those two arc threads. But as a matter of pacing, coming back on a big adventure episode with lots of laserbeams before getting dropped into a court drama was the right decision, and it lent some time for Una's situation to build up some tension.
I'm not saying the best thing about these two episodes was the order in which they were presented but.
I'm not saying the best thing about these two episodes was the order in which they were presented but.
I did appreciate the ending for that reason. Knowing that this jive is going to be going on for the next 150 years, it needed to be bittersweet. That shouldn't have been confined to a couple of lines of dialogue, but an effort was made.
Edit: Er, 120 years.
Edit: Er, 120 years.