Star Trek: The Original Series and The Next Generation

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Sabrblade

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On the other hand, had she not lost her son, we would have been robbed of the scene of Data speaking with Jason Marsden's voice.
 

The Predaking

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And what about justice for this woman whose son this crystalline entity form killed?

Is she just sh#t out of luck?
Or the thousands of other people on that colony or the colony that was destroyed with Riker on it.

Like seriously, I get the whole lets try to talk to the monstrous being that destroys worlds angle, but it still is a monstrous being that destroys worlds. Like, are they going to get to change it's ways and work at Target?
 

Copper Bezel

Revenge against God for the crime of Being.
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It's a long shot, but if you have the option to try, it's the best option. The worst case scenario seems to be that it does just go and work at Target, and you don't get to destroy it. Unfortunately, destroying it doesn't do the dead people any good either.
 

ooo-baby

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You need to give the mother her showdown and get out of the way:


Then go and give her a big, empathic hug like Kirk would do, not be cold, confine her to her quarters, reprimand her, and make her feel bad like Picard and Data did.
 

The Predaking

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Unfortunately, destroying it doesn't do the dead people any good either.
It does stop them from having more company. :) And at least one of their family members was happy that it was dead.

Like I totally get that talking to it might produce some results. But it eats planets. What are they going to say, go eat those planets way over there away from us and be someone else's problem?


However, I think that this is just one of those situations where the TNG show framed a situation wrong. Like with Captain Jelico. Dude wanted the crew to work 6 hour shifts instead of 8 hours and Riker just totally shot that idea down. Jelico had to disavow Picard after a Black Ops mission goes wrong and we are supposed to be mad at him from not instantly plunging the Federation into a war. Then when they figure out a plan to stop it all, Riker still is a jackass to Jelico and makes Jelico ask him to do the mission.

The show will frame things the wrong way sometimes, and I think that the Crystaline Entity was one of those things. Its essentially a giant Space shark that eats planets. Sure it was alive, but it was dangerous and had to be stopped.
 

Copper Bezel

Revenge against God for the crime of Being.
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And at least one of their family members was happy that it was dead.
I have no doubt, because revenge is a thing, but that's not a very good reason to kill it if there's another option. Again, there probably isn't one, but there's genuinely no reason not to try. I don't think it's complicated.

Jellicoe on the other hand did nothing wrong.
 

Dekafox

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Or the thousands of other people on that colony or the colony that was destroyed with Riker on it.

Like seriously, I get the whole lets try to talk to the monstrous being that destroys worlds angle, but it still is a monstrous being that destroys worlds. Like, are they going to get to change it's ways and work at Target?

You know this was pretty much the entire story arc of Discovery S4? Just replace mysterious space monster with mysterious device run by mysterious aliens.
 

Dekafox

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It basically revolves around this Dark Matter Anomaly that was destroying planets and systems, which they discover was an artifical device, harvesting space for a certain substance that an extremely advanced alien race needed. Most of the season once they figure out what's going on is a race/fight between one faction who wants to just blow it up, and another faction including the Discovery, who wants to communicate and get the aliens to stop doing it or at least move it to uninhabited areas. It was a pretty good season overall and actually stuck the landing for once... but it pretty much the same dilemma as here, with the slight caveat of the CE being directly responsible vs the "at one remove" of the aliens running the DMA.
 
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The Predaking

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It basically revolves around this Dark Matter Anomaly that was destroying planets and systems, which they discover was an artifical device, harvesting space for a certain substance that an extremely advanced alien race needed. Most of the season once they figure out what's going on is a race/fight between one faction who wants to just blow it up, and another faction including the Discovery, who wants to communicate and get the aliens to stop doing it or at least move it to uninhabited areas. It was a pretty good season overall and actually stuck the landing for once... but it pretty much the same dilemma as here, with the slight caveat of the CE being directly responsible vs the "at one remove" of the aliens running the DMA.
Yeah, I haven't seen it yet, so I am not going to read that.
 

Dekafox

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AH, thought you meant you weren't planning on seeing it, since it's been out a while. I tried to avoid being too specific(and not give away the ending as well), but I'll throw the whole thing behind a box then
 

ooo-baby

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It's a long shot, but if you have the option to try, it's the best option. The worst case scenario seems to be that it does just go and work at Target, and you don't get to destroy it. Unfortunately, destroying it doesn't do the dead people any good either.

Picard: “Do what I say, not what I do. “


Picard did not give the Borg that consideration. When it happens to you, it’s different. We’re all hypocrites until it effects us. The Borg would make the ultimate Target workers. They would surpass Amazon, put all other corporations out of business, and literally wipe the competition off the map.
 

Copper Bezel

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Picard: “Do what I say, not what I do. “
Oh, I know, I considered using a First Contact one-liner too. 😁 Lily's standing in to teach Picard the same lesson.

Yeah, I haven't seen it yet, so I am not going to read that.
Hope you get a chance to check it out! It's the one Disco season arc that actually pays off, though with some pacing issues.
 

TM2-Megatron

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And what about justice for this woman whose son this crystalline entity form killed?

Is she just sh#t out of luck?

Destroying the entity isn't justice, though. At least not the type of justice the Federation believes in, judging by the fact they don't execute their own criminals or hostile alien prisoners, either.
 

ooo-baby

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I feel the need to state the obvious for some reason, but Star Trek is so ill-suited to children's toys that the existence of Star Wars isn't just not a relevant comparison, it's an illustration. Pick anything in Star Wars that works incredibly well in toys - star fighters, role play lightsabers, knights with laser swords, wacky aliens with extra eyes, armored space army men with a bunch of specialized equipment - and Star Trek has the "Star War we have at home" counterpart: space panelvans that don't even have weapons and are only used in the show for getting stranded, laser guns that are invariably shot from the hip while standing still and usually to slowly melt open a door, middle aged men in jumpsuits packing the aforementioned laser guns, aliens with extra forehead ridges, and a wide cast of characters distinguished mainly by their academic disciplines and their interpersonal drama.

Star Trek has ships. Mostly in the categories of "Starfleet" and "low effort weekly but recognizable", with exceptions like the D-7, D'Deridex, and Ferengi shipship. And the biggest gimmicks of the Starfleet ships seem to be "sense of scale" and "internal illumination", as if someone had planned deliberately to make toys impossible. They also couldn't even fly cool until the CGI era.

Everything that made Star Wars so perfectly suited to launch one of the biggest toylines of all time is deftly avoided in Star Trek. Even adult fans don't want a ready room playset for chewing out the Lt. Commander and kids sure as hell never did.

And if you want to Star Trek as an adult, you have cosplay, or insanely involved and exorbitantly expensive model kit projects, I.e. the things the show was made with. And Pop! Vinyls, which are far more suited to Star Trek "action" than action figures ever will be.

Quality, Star Warsesque Star Trek toys can be made:

 

Copper Bezel

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Y'ain't getting it. You give a kid a choice between a T-65 X-Wing starfighter and a Type 6 shuttlecraft and they're going home with the X-Wing every time. Every time. Because it's cool.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
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Yeah, it's like choosing between a fighter jet and a station wagon.
 
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