Transformers: Age of the Primes toyline discussion 10/27 Update: First look at Megatronus the Fallen

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
The one thing I really dislike is Optimus being one of the 13, and therefore being the chosen hero. That's mainly because I feel like this directly cuts at everything that makes Rodimus special. Like Sabrblade pointed out, it was supposed to be Rodimus that was fated to be the one who would rise up. I hate that the backlash from almost 40 years ago has caused Hasbro to back so thoroughly away from him and try to shift anything unique he had going for him over to Optimus instead. IMO, let Optimus be his own bot, without stealing from Rodimus.
Joe Besser-esque whiny voice: "But I want Ooooptimuuuuus to be the special Chooooosen Ooooone! He deserrrrrrves iiiiiiiiiiit! More that Rodimuuuuuus! Rodimus suuuuuucks! He's a puuuuuuunk! He doesn't deseeeerrrve to be the Chosen Ooooone! He killed Optimuuuuuus! Optimus is beeeeeeeetteeeeeeeeeeer!!! He should be the Chosen Ooooooone!!! And he's more maaaarketablllllllllllllle!"

:rolleyes:
 

Superomegaprime

Wondering bot
Citizen
I think with OP being a Prime from a by gone era reincarnated could be explained away by the battle with Unicron, he lost his life during that time and Primus, being the creator of Cybertron and its people, held onto his spark until a time for his revival as Orion pax, where he had no memory of his past life or Primus chose to erase it completely, to see what choices he would make and if he would prove himself truly noble and worthy of the title of Prime
 

Tuxedo Prime

Well-known member
Citizen
The one thing I really dislike is Optimus being one of the 13, and therefore being the chosen hero. That's mainly because I feel like this directly cuts at everything that makes Rodimus special. Like Sabrblade pointed out, it was supposed to be Rodimus that was fated to be the one who would rise up. I hate that the backlash from almost 40 years ago has caused Hasbro to back so thoroughly away from him and try to shift anything unique he had going for him over to Optimus instead. IMO, let Optimus be his own bot, without stealing from Rodimus.
Joe Besser-esque whiny voice: "But I want Ooooptimuuuuus to be the special Chooooosen Ooooone! He deserrrrrrves iiiiiiiiiiit! More that Rodimuuuuuus! Rodimus suuuuuucks! He's a puuuuuuunk! He doesn't deseeeerrrve to be the Chosen Ooooone! He killed Optimuuuuuus! Optimus is beeeeeeeetteeeeeeeeeeer!!! He should be the Chosen Ooooooone!!! And he's more maaaarketablllllllllllllle!"

:rolleyes:
The sad thing is, Rodimus himself (Well, his Cybertronic Spree version) leaned into this. I had the opportunity to speak with him after a concert, and revealed that I had kicked off the band's TFWiki page, but was uncertain of how to credit him (He's usually billed or addressed as Hot Rod, but events similar to TF:TAM are also referenced has having happened? I ended up listing him as "Rodimus" without the Prime, partially because I didn't want to get into the vagaries of whatever post-Great-War-politics is informing the backstory of this cross-factional band, and partially because both Lost Light and Last Bot Standing used it to show a more mature but not faction-leader character).

Anyway, his response was (and I quote from memory): "Eh, I was a 💩 Prime anyway."

Granted that Beast Wars: Uprising named one of the big gouges in Cybertron "Rodimus' Folly", and Dick Gautier's Sunbow Season 3 Rodimus often sounded weary from all the Legacy-to-Which-I-Must-Live-Up (psst! Optimus spent 4 million years of his tenure asleep!), but still. That's a fair bit of fan opprobrium to internalize.

He did assure me that Thunder Clash wouldn't get him down, though, which was nice to hear. :)
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Season 3 also wasn't very kind to Rodimus in how he was written in comparison to how Optimus was written in Seasons 1 and 2. For the latter, Optimus had this "Cool Dad Action Hero" vibe where he was confident and heroic and got to go on these cool adventures all the time, charging forward and proudly leading his troops into battle. But for Season 3, Rodimus got saddled with less exciting plots that made him less of stalwart man of action and more of a diplomat dealing with bureaucracy and responsibility, plots that Optimus rarely had to deal with during his tenure... because kids don't enjoy boring plots about diplomatic bureaucracy! It was Ultra Magnus who got to play the more Optimus-like role instead, while Rodimus also had a bunch of "I'll never be as good as Optimus! His legacy continues to haunt me!" moments. It's as if the Season 3 writers were trying to be unfair to Rodimus on purpose.

Meanwhile, the Marvel UK comics also had several moments like these that further fueled the "Rodimus is a wuss!" sentiment:

Headhunt-Rodimus.jpg


TimeWars-OptimusPrimeentersthefray.jpg


Rodimus is practically curled up on the ground in a defeatist position in that last one, as the mighty and dashing Optimus Prime swoops in to save the day and do what Rodimus couldn't. 😒
 

Tuxedo Prime

Well-known member
Citizen
Which is interesting, because we mostly remember UK-post-Movie stories nowadays for Ferak triggering Rodimus' (and our) PTSD from The Battle of Autobot City in a very different way, with a very different outcome.

"Grant me mercy, Prime, I beg of you....!"
"You who are without mercy, now plead for it?
...
..."
*Boom, headshot*
 

Shadewing

Well-known member
Citizen
That's a perfectly fine starting point for Rodimus, but the key is he has to overcome it and grow, and he never really did.

He kinda does. Burden Hardest to Bear is kinda about that, and episodes after that mostly feel like he's become more accepting of his role. I still maintain that they attempted to give Rodimus something of a character arc in season 3. Just like Galvatron starts off insane, ends up being sent to therapy, and in the final episodes seems much more stable and rational. It feels like there was some sort of plan, but it got derailed by having to bring Optimus back.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
He kinda does. Burden Hardest to Bear is kinda about that, and episodes after that mostly feel like he's become more accepting of his role. I still maintain that they attempted to give Rodimus something of a character arc in season 3. Just like Galvatron starts off insane, ends up being sent to therapy, and in the final episodes seems much more stable and rational. It feels like there was some sort of plan, but it got derailed by having to bring Optimus back.
I can see that, yeah. Optimus coming back kind of shifts all the focus.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Which is interesting, because we mostly remember UK-post-Movie stories nowadays for Ferak triggering Rodimus' (and our) PTSD from The Battle of Autobot City in a very different way, with a very different outcome.

"Grant me mercy, Prime, I beg of you....!"
"You who are without mercy, now plead for it?
...
..."
*Boom, headshot*
And then he immediately got all emo about that right after, yelling at his fellow Autobots and practically calling himself a failure:

b49zcla366y.jpg
j7mmcxz6597.jpg


He kinda does. Burden Hardest to Bear is kinda about that, and episodes after that mostly feel like he's become more accepting of his role.
But then, the first time we see him in "The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 1", before he hears anything about Optimus's body having been recovered, he's seen standing next to a statue of Optimus, looking up at it, and moping about how Optimus still haunts him and that he'll never as good a leader as Optimus was. Then, when he does hear about Optimus's body having been found, he refuses to heed Jessica Morgan's warnings about it being a trap and rashly rushes to rescue the body, recklessly getting his team infected by the Hate Plague in the process. Even though the episode was about Optimus returning and needed a big crisis to give Optimus a big hero moment to save everyone, they didn't have to also make Rodimus both a Debbie Downer and a Leroy Jenkins in this episode, which undid the, as you mentioned, growth he underwent "The Burden Hardest to Bear".

But speaking of that episode, "The Burden Hardest to Bear" was even unkind to Rodimus in comparison to Optimus, since after 65 episodes of Optimus leading the Autobots into battle with the Decepticons, we never saw Optimus having to face the consequences of the damage caused by the battles his Autobots had fought against the Decepticons. Yet, in this episode, we see Rodimus getting yelled at by the Japanese Prime Minister and blamed for all the destruction caused by the Decepticons. How come Optimus never got chewed out by the U.S. President or any other world leaders for all the damage caused by the Decepticons during his tenure? It's not fair that they made a story where Rodimus gets blamed for Decepticon destruction and while the same was never done for Optimus. Sure, Optimus didn't have to go through the same growth arc that Rodimus did, but Optimus was just as "guilty" of "letting" the Decepticons cause collateral damage as Rodimus was, yet never got unfairly called out on it like Rodimus was in this episode.
 

Shadewing

Well-known member
Citizen
And then he immediately got all emo about that right after, yelling at his fellow Autobots and practically calling himself a failure:

b49zcla366y.jpg
j7mmcxz6597.jpg



But then, the first time we see him in "The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 1", before he hears anything about Optimus's body having been recovered, he's seen standing next to a statue of Optimus, looking up at it, and moping about how Optimus still haunts him and that he'll never as good a leader as Optimus was. Then, when he does hear about Optimus's body having been found, he refuses to heed Jessica Morgan's warnings about it being a trap and rashly rushes to rescue the body, recklessly getting his team infected by the Hate Plague in the process. Even though the episode was about Optimus returning and needed a big crisis to give Optimus a big hero moment to save everyone, they didn't have to also make Rodimus both a Debbie Downer and a Leroy Jenkins in this episode, which undid the, as you mentioned, growth he underwent "The Burden Hardest to Bear".

But speaking of that episode, "The Burden Hardest to Bear" was even unkind to Rodimus in comparison to Optimus, since after 65 episodes of Optimus leading the Autobots into battle with the Decepticons, we never saw Optimus having to face the consequences of the damage caused by the battles his Autobots had fought against the Decepticons. Yet, in this episode, we see Rodimus getting yelled at by the Japanese Prime Minister and blamed for all the destruction caused by the Decepticons. How come Optimus never got chewed out by the U.S. President or any other world leaders for all the damage caused by the Decepticons during his tenure? It's not fair that they made a story where Rodimus gets blamed for Decepticon destruction and while the same was never done for Optimus. Sure, Optimus didn't have to go through the same growth arc that Rodimus did, but Optimus was just as "guilty" of "letting" the Decepticons cause collateral damage as Rodimus was, yet never got unfairly called out on it like Rodimus was in this episode.

1. UK Pages: Tell me to my face Optimus wouldn't be equally as upset if he had to kill a Decepticon there or dress down any of his troops that celebrated the loss of that life. This is EXACTLY the kinda Stuff that people praise Optimus for nowadays.

2. As I said, bringing Prime back ruined any form of character arc for him.

3. I feel this down to how Season 3 ends up being more character driven then the first two seasons. Season 3 had less new toys to sell, mostly those intro'd in the movie, and Hasbro seemed to not want them to focus on older toys that no longer were being sold. So Season 3 largely ends up focusing on those movie characters for most the episodes. So when trying to give these guys compelling plots, with mostly smaller casts; they have to use other non-transformers elements.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
You know, I think I realized the true issue back then.

It's not that Rodimus should have been written more like how Optimus was written before him, it's that Optimus should have been written more like how Rodimus would be written later. :p
 

lastmaximal

Administrator
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
I actually like the panels after that and don't see it as Rodimus getting all "emo", but a deconstruction of the usual woo bang bang kill bad guys portrayal of the good guys in war stories. I mean it can be an easy "add depth here" button to push but the story and character benefited from making it explicit. And yeah, Marvel US/UK Op had his share of these too.

But one little thing I like quite a bit is Kup calling him "Prime".
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
1. UK Pages: Tell me to my face Optimus wouldn't be equally as upset if he had to kill a Decepticon there or dress down any of his troops that celebrated the loss of that life. This is EXACTLY the kinda Stuff that people praise Optimus for nowadays.
It's not just that, but his defeatist attitude about how weak he and his team are and how inevitable it is that Shockwave and the Decepticons are gonna beat them in the long run, requiring Kup to perk him up with a pep talk that still doesn't seem to cure Rodimus's doubts.
 

LBD "Nytetrayn"

Broke the Matrix
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
Hey, y'know something I liked?

ReGeneration One.

Know why?

Because for me, it felt like G1 Rodimus Prime finally had some justice done by him.

Say what you want about the bigger picture, but I at least felt like this time, they got Rodimus, enough that it reminded me why I love the character again.

And if I'm being honest, while I look up to Optimus's example, I relate more to Rodimus... in part because we both kind of look up to Optimus in that way.
 

CoffeeHorse

Exhausted, but still standing.
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
Rodimus is practically curled up on the ground in a defeatist position in that last one, as the mighty and dashing Optimus Prime swoops in to save the day and do what Rodimus couldn't. 😒

To be fair, it's Time Wars. Most of the cast either died or the plot quietly forgot about them at some point.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Correcting something I said before: I had said that it was Dreamwave who first made it so that Optimus Prime was the one chosen by the Matrix to be its destined bearer. In actuality, it was Robots in Disguise 2001 that did it first.

In the original Car Robots version, it was Vector Sigma who selected Fire Convoy to be the bearer of an Energon Matrix. But when this was adapted into the English version, Vector Sigma's role of giving Optimus his Matrix was kept, but the Energon Matrix was changed into "The Matrix", and was itself the one who made the choice. Vector Sigma was simply acting on behalf of the Matrix's will, and that willpower had chosen Optimus.

That's where the trend began.
 


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