Transformers: Age of the Primes toyline discussion || update: Wave 1 Box Art

[Sabrblade]

I’m British.

 

[Rhinox]

Preorders are up in the usual places. Megatronus sold out quick on Pulse, but I was able to get an order on Amazon.

As far as it goes, I was not a big fan of Armada. It felt like a step backwards from Beast Wars. Articulation was just horrible and overall was not what I was looking for. There are a few bits that I enjoyed (the deluxe "bendy" Prime, for example) but speaking as to the whole, I wasn't very happy with it. I like Aaron Archer as a person and an artist, but I really didn't appreciate his philosophy that first year.

 

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

Ha! Even Marvel knew that when they made their adaptation of TFTM:

Look! No Hot Rod interference, and Megatron still guns him down!

To say nothing of the regular series...

"I'm sorry I killed all your Sims, Ethan Zachary. That was very not-sigma of me. Total n00b behavior. Press the button."

"Okay, first of all, it's 1986, and I don't know half of what you're saying. Secondly, I can't kill you! That would --"

"But you must, Ethan Zachary! I have violated my own personal code of ethics, and that makes me no better than Murdery McMurderspree over there who has murdered my people for many millions of years and will continue to do so unimpeded for millions more if no one is there to stop him. There are no higher stakes than this, Ethan Zachary. Besides, I'm just one guy, what's the worst that can happen?"

"Fine, but I'm storing your brain on an easily-tearable floppy disc next to my copies of 'Paperboy' and 'Might and Magic'."

"Deal."

He first came on to the Transformers brand during the Transmetal 2 portion of Beast Wars, working on such toys as the gimmick-heavy TM2 Megatron. Before that, he had been part of Kenner's 90s Ghostbusters toyline, from which both TM2 Megatron and later the Armada toys took a great amount of influence from in terms of how much variety in gimmicks those toys had. The man had a reputation of saying "No" to a lot of things suggested by fans, and many of those suggestions were always "Go back to G1" in some way, shape, or form, whether it was requests to bring back the old characters, requests for old gimmicks like Headmasters/Combiners/Sky Lynx (all of which Archer was known for being than fond of), or simply requests for new G1 animation that either continued the 80s cartoon from where it had left off or new G1 animation that was like a modern reboot of the old show (Armada/Cybertron/Animated/Prime/etc. weren't GEEWUN enough for these people). Archer wanted none of that.

He wasn't interested in going back to G1 because he was always focusing more on looking toward the future, aiming to reinvent, reimagine, and re-innovate rather than recreate, retread, and redo things that had already been done decades ago. He set his sights on grabbing the attention of newer audiences (meaning kids) instead of catering to older manchildren who just kept whining about G1 all the time. This is all partly why the Unicron Trilogy and the live-action Bay movies were so wildly different from G1 in terms of character designs and aesthetics. Archer simply had little reverence for G1. He acknowledged the impact it had had on the brand and respected that impact... but never wanted to be beholden to it and shackled down from focusing on the new over the old. It had its time in the spotlight, and that time had already ended long before he had come onto the brand. He was down for things like Alternators and Classics since they were NEW designs rather than ones 100% faithful to the 80s designs. And he certainly wasn't an uber geek who dissected every piece of Transformers media never released in the west; the majority of his TF knowledge was strictly from works that had been released in English and during his tenure.

He enjoyed his work at Hasbro at the time and was passionate about the concepts he helped to create and innovate, but at the end of the day, it was all still primarily a job and a business for him, not something sacrosanct for him to get fanatical over.

I'm fine with forging a new path and not being beholden to the past, but I feel like there should be some knowledge of what you're working with, a bit more than just cursory if you're the head of the brand.

Like, I don't think anyone will fault you if you don't know who Tote is. But if someone brings up Sixshot, I think at the very least you ought to be able to say "is that the guy who has six modes?"

That said, I don't mind the occasional retread of lore, but I usually prefer expanding on what's there more. Beast Wars is a fine example. It wasn't super-beholden to G1, but it did build upon it.

It's a reason I like the Japanese continuations, for whatever they're worth, too.

Meanwhile, I've gotten so sick of "Optimus sends the Allspark into space and now they have to go bring it back."

Animated was a good reinvention that respected what came before while doing new things with it.

Not to say I didn't like the Unicron Trilogy (warts and all). But I feel like knowing the history of the brand and what it entails, at least to some degree, is generally a pretty good idea.

I wonder if Archer knew that Energon Megatron looked like G1 Galvatron. Seems like the sort of thing that would pass him by, potentially costing us a really good repaint. Thankfully it didn't, though I do wonder if it was his idea. But I feel like that's the sort of thing you should at least have the presence of mind to recognize the opportunity when something like that comes your way.

I do like when new stuff manages to be respectful of what came before while giving us something new. Like how Animated and Cyberverse and Earthspark have given us new versions and interpretations of old characters that don't feel so unaware (like "Wheeljack sounds like a car crime" or whatever), and giving us new stuff, like Wild Wheel, for example. Love that guy. Wish I'd gotten his toy.

Short of actually featuring, well, Lori.

(Yes, I specifically picked a pic of "Lori with lore")

Now we just need her doing that with Optimus in vehicle mode.

Then she can be Lori with lore on a lorry.

I find it interesting that Mark explicitly cited Prima as sporting the "Creation Matrix", NOT the Matrix of Leadership.

"Creator" Matrix, it sounded like to me.

I would say yes and no. On one hand, it's not like a kid is going to know who the hell Star Convoy was and therefore reject the toy as being an old obscure character that they don't care about. You can please both camps by doing new, fun toys of old characters.

Yeah, that's what always gets me when I hear "nobody knows who that is" when the possibility of a new or Japanese-exclusive character gets rolled out.

Like, who the frick was Optimus Prime in 1984?! Nobody, that's who! Until you found out more because he caught your eye and you liked the cut of his rig.

Anyway, the video was linked several pages back, but I watched it before coming here and wrote a post before coming here and took notes before coming here and put it all up before coming here.

You can find it by coming -- er, going here:

Toys and Figurines - Hasbro Pulse Dishes Dirt on Age of the Primes Opening Salvo

Thanks to the events of Cybertron Con this past week, we've already seen and heard a lot about what to expect from the forthcoming Transformers: Age of the Primes line. Nevertheless, Mark from the Transformers team is here with Hasbro Pulse to make it official... er. Join him as he takes you on...

www.allspark.com

Maybe I picked up something you missed? Maybe I didn't! Tell me in the comments! Or here. I have no pride, you can berate me at Burger King if you want, so long as you buy me dinner first. (But that's as far as it goes!)

It's 6:40am here, btw, and I haven't eaten yet. G'nite.

 

[Blot]

Well kudos to Hasbro. Between Transformers One and these toys, I actually give enough of a damn about the Thirteen Primes to preorder these toys.

 

[Rustron]

I was surprised to see in the video that the turret on the micro trailer can spin by using a little lever! It's cool they managed to get that little gimmick there. In love with the micro Hot Rod too.

 

[Powered Convoy]

Random blind box.
You gotta open it up to see which versions you get!


Powered Convoy still gets one with both the same color with both having double left hands, though

Sounds accurate.

 

[unluckiness]

I like the Fallen and Solus. I'm indifferent on the Aerialbots at best but the combination method here makes them a pass. Don't hate Prima but the doofy head clashes with the body and the colors suck so I'll wait on an exclusive release or something. Might get Grimlock depending on how the other G2 Dinobots get released. Wasp is meh and Red Alert looks decent but not good enough to justify the price. I'll have to see about Star Convoy. Space is a premium and I already have a bunch of Optimuses

 

[MrBlud]

Word is G2 Slag and G2 Snarl are supposed to come together as a set. No word on Sludge/Swoop.

Presumably Green Slag and Red Snarl although they could switch it up.

 

[Donocropolis]

I wasn't really into the idea of the 13, and I doubt I'll go all-in or anything, but The Fallen was always gonna be a buy, and Prima has that sweet Five Faces of Darkness thing going for him (we really need a Trannis remold of Wreck-Gar for him to fight!), Star Convoy/Optimus is awesome, and Solus looks good independent of any other considerations, so I guess I'm buying all of the 13 from this wave.

 

[Shadewing]

Might get Grimlock depending on how the other G2 Dinobots get released.

Selects 2pk

 

[Powered Convoy]

You know, we blame the Covenant book or Alvarez or Aligned in general for first making Optimus Prime be one of the Thirteen, but the idea seems to go back to before Aligned started up in 2010, back to 2009 with Revenge of the Fallen.

In that movie, Optimus is called "the last Prime", and Jetfire's reaction to seeing him alive ("A living Prime! Haha! Ooh! I don't believe it!") comes off as him regarding Optimus as the same kind of Prime as the Seven (rather than Thirteen) Primes who were The Fallen's brethren. However, Optimus's exact relation to the Seven Primes is never explained in the movie (tie-in material from IDW filled in those blanks, but history has shown that the movies themselves don't acknowledge those, and the widest audience of casual moviegoers didn't read them).

And when Optimus fights The Fallen at the end, they have this little exchange:

The Fallen: "Die, like your brothers!"
Optimus: "They were your brothers, too!"

Since the movie never spelled out that Optimus was supposed to be a much younger generation of Prime from that of the original Seven Primes, all this sure makes it sound like Optimus was originally one of those same Seven.

Plus, a dropped plot point from earlier script drafts of the movie was The Fallen promising to make Megatron a Prime once their goal with the Great Machine was achieved, but during the final battle, Optimus was to have revealed to Megatron that The Fallen had lied to him, stating "Primes are born, not made!" This made it into the movie's comic adaptation, but not the film itself. Nonetheless, this notion seems to have carried over into Aligned with Optimus being both a reincarnation of the Thirteenth Prime (per ROTF's implying he was somehow one of the original Seven Primes along with The Fallen) and the only true Prime among those who bore the title in the ages following that of the Thirteen (in that he was the only one who was chosen to bear the Matrix of Leadership).

I had talked to Rik about Optimus as the 13th Prime while on a toy run a few months back (as I too, didn't like the idea), he said that they came up with the idea hoping that if someone (via official means) came up with an idea more appropriate that they could overwrite the idea of Optimus as the 13. Officially reconning him as not the 13th. Mainly, because the Hasbro fiction team didn't have a better choice as the final Prime.

 

[Gizmoboy]

Skipped Star Optimus. I was never a fan of the original and this one just doesn't strike any nostalgia buttons for me. Snagged the 3 Primes, Red Alert, and... for now... the Arealbots. Those are the ones that I am not 100% sure about. I have the United Warriors version of him that I really love. I just don't know if I need another. I did get the new Menasor, but that is mainly because the CW version isn't all that.

 

[LordGigaIce]

"I'm sorry I killed all your Sims, Ethan Zachary. That was very not-sigma of me. Total n00b behavior. Press the button."

"Okay, first of all, it's 1986, and I don't know half of what you're saying. Secondly, I can't kill you! That would --"

"But you must, Ethan Zachary! I have violated my own personal code of ethics, and that makes me no better than Murdery McMurderspree over there who has murdered my people for many millions of years and will continue to do so unimpeded for millions more if no one is there to stop him. There are no higher stakes than this, Ethan Zachary. Besides, I'm just one guy, what's the worst that can happen?"

"Fine, but I'm storing your brain on an easily-tearable floppy disc next to my copies of 'Paperboy' and 'Might and Magic'."

"Deal."

I'm imagining Megatron standing off to the side with the biggest troll face in the world.

It's a reason I like the Japanese continuations, for whatever they're worth, too.

I see you too are a man of culture.

"Creator" Matrix, it sounded like to me.

The whole video is full of terms that sound like they're only there because Hasbro's copyright lawyer went Christmas tree over the script.

Like, who the frick was Optimus Prime in 1984?! Nobody, that's who! Until you found out more because he caught your eye and you liked the cut of his rig.

When I was a young-in and first got into Transformers via G2 I asked my dad for Optimus Prime for my birthday. He didn't know who the f that was, but he still bought it!

Also, did I know that G2 Prime was just a repackaged G1 Prime with a new trailer and guns at five years old? No. No I didn't, and probably wouldn't have cared if told.
And yet I'm sure that had the internet been in full swing at the time some adult fan would have complained about it!

 

[Powered Convoy]

I mostly like this lineup for wave 1.

Superion seems far superior to the bad CW figure and even the very good UW version. Finally a gray face and not silver. Even if I think Silverbolt looks a little off in robot mode and the UW still looks a bit better there. I like the idea of Superion being similar to Menasor.

Star Convoy looks very cool as a modern version of the original figure and comic design. Looking forward to him.

Megatronus is pretty cool. I do prefer my flaming chainsaw Kuro Kara Kuri figure as far as looks though.

G2 Grimlock hits all the nostalgia buttons. That blue color with the black, gold, and red is chef's kiss. This was my main Grimlock growing up (I had the original but G2 got played with a lot more). The Wheelie Deco is fabulous.

I'm happy about Solus but her apron being such a large piece drives me a bit nuts. Hoping it's better in person.

Prima looks very cool. He could be the best figure of the wave.

Slingshot and Airraid look very good for combiner limbs. I am happy they are very cartoon accurate.

Red Alert looks like a great figure and the colors look great. I've never liked his design but this looks like a really nice figure and I will buy.

Wasp has great colors, that green combo is fantastic. That said, I may skip him. Just because I am trying to cut back and Animated is where that will likely be.

 

[LordGigaIce]

I had talked to Rik about Optimus as the 13th Prime while on a toy run a few months back (as I too, didn't like the idea), he said that they came up with the idea hoping that if someone (via official means) came up with an idea more appropriate that they could overwrite the idea of Optimus as the 13. Officially reconning him as not the 13th. Mainly, because the Hasbro fiction team didn't have a better choice as the final Prime.

FFS Rik...

"Hey guys! This is Awesomus Prime, the thirteenth and Primus' most favourite and bestest boy! He vanished while fighting Unicron/Devil Z/Dracula/the Zodiac Killer and some say he'll return one day when Cybertron needs him most."

Right there you basically have just done Optimus' Thirteenth profile but made it not Optimus, thereby avoiding the issues with the Optimus being the Thirteenth Prime.
Plus you've now boosted your new OC with a King Arthur backstory that makes him important and might make people interested.
More importantly though, you've shunted the "once and future king" stuff to someone else, allowing you to fully lean into Optimus as an average dude who was thrust into leadership by circumstance and his own merits.

Like of the "canonized" Thirteen six (IIRC) were OCs (I'm counting Alchemist Prime in that because it was only later he was retconned as Macadam). Could they not have thought of one more faux-Latin sounding name?

Also between Earth Wars (Nova), Machinima (Sentinel), and TFO (Zeta), projects have been trying to override "Optimus is the Thirteenth" for years, and Hasbro is still sticking with it, so good job Rik.
Heck, AotP isn't based on TFO's version of the Thirteen but the movie gave Hasbro the definitive chance to just make Zeta the Thirteenth and they still went with Optimus.

The toy looks wicked. I'm getting it. But as someone into The Lore this is all a bit silly

and Prima has that sweet Five Faces of Darkness thing going for him

That's the thing. It DOES look a bit doofy and clashes with the rest of the figure but you know what? It's a FFoD guy! At retail! I'm all in on that action.
Give me rhino/dino UHaul Sentinel too. Give me all of it!

 

[Platypus Prime]

What really happened is this is the edited version Swindle sold Hasbro when the Transformers found Earth and he got involved in merchandising (do you REALLY think a war lasted FOUR MILLION years without degenerating into a mass-marketed scripted pseudo-sport?). The REAL story was even MORE heavily edited, as there were TWENTY Primes created by Primus, but Swindle re-worked that a bit and sold it as Warhammer 40K...

 

[Donocropolis]

That's the thing. It DOES look a bit doofy and clashes with the rest of the figure but you know what? It's a FFoD guy! At retail! I'm all in on that action.
Give me rhino/dino UHaul Sentinel too. Give me all of it!

Yes! I've always said that the Gamer Edition Optimus would make a great UHaul Robot with pretty minimal remolding:

 

[Undead Scottsman]

Still think they should make the Leige Maximo more of a war and tactics god and give the trickster/loki stuff to Xal.

Xal - Transformers Wiki

tfwiki.net

 

[LordGigaIce]

I had talked to Rik about Optimus as the 13th Prime while on a toy run a few months back (as I too, didn't like the idea), he said that they came up with the idea hoping that if someone (via official means) came up with an idea more appropriate that they could overwrite the idea of Optimus as the 13. Officially reconning him as not the 13th. Mainly, because the Hasbro fiction team didn't have a better choice as the final Prime.

Also...

My guess is that given how many OCs Hasbro had to make to fill out the Thirteen's ranks, the idea well ran dry and for whatever reason characters like Logos Prime were deemed not viable. So needing to finish the Covenant, someone pitched Optimus and the reincarnation angle and they just ran with it because it made the franchise centrepiece that much more "special."

 

[Gizmoboy]

G2 Grimlock hits all the nostalgia buttons. That blue color with the black, gold, and red is chef's kiss. This was my main Grimlock growing up (I had the original but G2 got played with a lot more). The Wheelie Deco is fabulous.

Wasp has great colors, that green combo is fantastic. That said, I may skip him. Just because I am trying to cut back and Animated is where that will likely be.

You have me rethinking both of these figures.
The G2 Dinobots came out right as I was shifting my interests from Transformers to GI Joe. I remember seeing them on display in the toy aisle and thinking how cool they looked, but my money was needed to pick up more Joes. I absolutely love the leader Dinobots so I might have to consider picking up the G2 versions as well.
Wasp as a character means little to me. I was not an Animated person the first time around and have been skipping the Legacy versions of the characters to this point. However, the green on him looks absolutely beautiful. Also, while recognizably Animated, he looks like he could fit in with ordinary figures in my collection, which Animated figures don't normally do.