Transformers Legacy toyline

Badgertron

Active member
Citizen
The main problem with Pretenders for me was that the way they did them in G1, the shells were very fragile, with tabs that were easily broken. It also lead to limited articulation and an inability for the main shells themselves to really DO anything. Any modern rendition would need to be smaller figures that go just inside the torso. Maybe some panels open like CW Ultra Magnus. It would probably be better if the shells could transform into something the smaller robots could ride in. It's a shame Core class is mostly going away, as this would have been a great use for that price point.
 

unluckiness

Somehow still sane
Citizen
Personally, the characters are what make the Pretenders prominent and I find the very concept of pretenders flawed and in need of reworking. If the gimmick of your toyline is that you can completely ignore the existence of half the package, it's not a very good one is it? Maybe if putting the robots inside the shells activated features of some kind, there'd be a selling point but as it is, if you can't even tell if the robot is inside, what's the point? Schrodinger's bot is a decent thought experiment, not so much a product.

Also, now that I think on it, Hasbro may not be willing to dilute the brand by populating the toyline with knockoff Centurions, bootleg Ninja Turtle mutants and He-Man rejects for a few years.
 
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Magnusblitz

Active member
Citizen
Yeah, toy-wise I think my ideal way to do Pretender updates would be "brute mode" types where the shells are instead additional armor in robot mode and trailer/accessory pieces in vehicle mode. Thinking guys like Energon Landmine or the PotP Leaders. I think this could work pretty well for the 'cons, as the monster theme lends itself to an armor design. Might be a bit thematically weird for the Autobots but could do it more IDW1 style where they don't have human shells, just human-esque looking protective suits.

The big drawback obviously would be size constraints, as all the examples are Ultras/Leaders and I'm not sure if even a Voyager would be doable this way. And it's a difficult gimmick to engineer for every different toy. But I can dream.
 

PrimalxConvoy

NOT a New Member.
Citizen
If the gimmick of your toyline is that you can completely ignore the existence of half the package, it's not a very good one is it?
You mean, like how combiners, Headmasters, Targetmasters, Brainmasters and Powermasters basically hide the smaller robots away to complete a larger robot? In the case of combiners or Headmasters, the larger robot isn't even complete without the smaller robots.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
Honestly I prefer how they're treated now. Designs that mix the inner robot and shell design. I have no interest in trying to make the shell concept work.

You mean, like how combiners, Headmasters, Targetmasters, Brainmasters and Powermasters basically hide the smaller robots away to complete a larger robot?
No, not at all.
 

unluckiness

Somehow still sane
Citizen
I don't know why I have to point this out but if you leave combiner parts out, you form a big robot missing limbs if you can get anything at all. Conversely, you can keep Pretender shells empty and short of picking them up and shaking them, nobody is the wiser.

Yeah, toy-wise I think my ideal way to do Pretender updates would be "brute mode" types where the shells are instead additional armor in robot mode and trailer/accessory pieces in vehicle mode. Thinking guys like Energon Landmine or the PotP Leaders. I think this could work pretty well for the 'cons, as the monster theme lends itself to an armor design. Might be a bit thematically weird for the Autobots but could do it more IDW1 style where they don't have human shells, just human-esque looking protective suits.

The big drawback obviously would be size constraints, as all the examples are Ultras/Leaders and I'm not sure if even a Voyager would be doable this way. And it's a difficult gimmick to engineer for every different toy. But I can dream.
I think it could work as the successors to the Weaponizers. Make a robot that can reassemble into a vehicle or be disassembled into armor that is compatible with most figures but has extra functionality with their intended character. Release a deluxe Octopunch who turns into a crab and release deluxe Pretender™ Flotsam who turns into a boat and disassemble into gloves, boots chest armor and weapons that make Octopunch look like his shell. This also means you can put the diving bell helmet on other figures for lols.

Of course this isn't practical for every Pretender design.
 
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Platypus Prime

Well-known member
Citizen
The new line will be the TherapyMasters, representing all the things kids from the 80's saw RUINED FOREVER as the concepts were JaAm'd into a modern era with different budget requirements and material cost estimates.

TherapyMasters hide their deep seated inferiority complexes inside!

The tech specs will be nothing but micro-scaled printouts of internet arguments about the figures themselves.
 

PrimalxConvoy

NOT a New Member.
Citizen
I don't know why I have to point this out but if you leave combiner parts out, you form a big robot missing limbs if you can get anything at all. Conversely, you can keep Pretender shells empty and short of picking them up and shaking them, nobody is the wiser.
Your original point was that a Pretender robot can be "assimilated" or "lost" inside another form/robot, which negated their purpose. However, I pointed out that from a certain POV, a similar thing happens with combiners, etc. To make one character "whole" we effectively "lose" the other/s.
 

PrimalxConvoy

NOT a New Member.
Citizen
The new line will be the TherapyMasters, representing all the things kids from the 80's saw RUINED FOREVER as the concepts were JaAm'd into a modern era with different budget requirements and material cost estimates.

TherapyMasters hide their deep seated inferiority complexes inside!

The tech specs will be nothing but micro-scaled printouts of internet arguments about the figures themselves.
make-it-so-star-trek.gif
 

unluckiness

Somehow still sane
Citizen
Your original point was that a Pretender robot can be "assimilated" or "lost" inside another form/robot, which negated their purpose. However, I pointed out that from a certain POV, a similar thing happens with combiners, etc. To make one character "whole" we effectively "lose" the other/s.
I don't even know where you pulled that assimilated or lost stuff from. My point is that an empty pretender shell is functionally identical to an occupied one.
 

PrimalxConvoy

NOT a New Member.
Citizen
I don't even know where you pulled that assimilated or lost stuff from. My point is that an empty pretender shell is functionally identical to an occupied one.

You wrote:

- "If the gimmick of your toyline is that you can completely ignore the existence of half the package, it's not a very good one is it?"

And my point (again) is that Powermasters and Targetmasters, etc are arguably "half the package" and could, technically, be ignored. If we lost the little robots that turned into guns or engine blocks, we could still play with the main robots. However, as fans, I think most of us here have lamented when characters meant to be Headmasters, etc haven't come with their requisite head/engine/weapon bots.

Also, the weapons (which in some cases, formed part of the core robot, such as Bludgeon's turret, etc) were also the weapons and/or shields, etc for the Pretender shell. It's also worth noting that the role-playing part of the play pattern (which admittedly might not be known to all kids that played with them) was that the shells couldn't operate on their own. They were controlled by the inner robot, much like how Roller and the trailer are controlled by Optimus Prime.
 
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LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
I assume the action figure buying public of the year of our lord 2000 + 24 expects new product to be more articulate than rubbery plastic shells sold in the 80s.

So now you're essentially trying to engineer a fully functional action figure that hides another action figure that can transform convert into a vehicle inside.

I don't see any way to do this that doesn't compromise one or both. And at that point I have to echo...

At some point you have to start asking if you're still producing a good toy that works in tandem with the rest of the line, or just hell-bent on producing something, anything, that can be wadded up and put in a shell, for the sake of saying you have something you can put in a shell.

The way they treat Pretenders now is fine, and fans from the 80s frankly need to accept that this is the one gimmick that likely can't be replicated the way other line wide gimmicks have been.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
You don't understand. The children, they long for the space barbarians with Tom Selleck mustaches.
The whole Pretender thing never worked for me. I guess some of the Decepticons work because they're monsters but who the hell is seeing a giant human (big enough to hold a Transformer inside) in knock-off He-Man armour and going "seems legit!"
 
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PrimalxConvoy

NOT a New Member.
Citizen
Release Date: August 2024
Retail Price: $142.97 CAD

Exclusive offer: Receive a bonus Transformers Collector Box when you purchase the following four Transformers Legacy action figures together:

Transformers Legacy United Deluxe Class Robots in Disguise 2001 Universe Autobot Side Burn

Transformers Legacy United Deluxe Class Infernac Universe Nucleous

Transformers Legacy United Deluxe Class Cybertron Universe Hot Shot

Transformers Legacy United Deluxe Class Robots in Disguise 2015 Universe Strongarm

Box details: Corrugate store and stage box

Specifications

Assembled Depth (in.): 16.000 in
Assembled Length (in.): 12.000 in
Assembled Width (in.): 3.000 in
Assembled Weight (lbs.): 10.8800 lb
Category ID: CAT-6000196264542
SKU: 6000207958525
Universal Product Code (UPC check): 628069388626
Walmart Exclusive: Yes
Walmart Item #50524610

Image of Transformers Legacy United Collector Box WalMart Exclusive 4-Pack (11)__scaled_800.jpg

Image of Transformers Legacy United Collector Box WalMart Exclusive 4-Pack (12)__scaled_600.jpg


(Source: - https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/transformers-collector-box-and-action-figure-bundle-multi/6000207958525 )
 

lastmaximal

Administrator
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
If the new line was basically pretenders and powermasters, then the toys would be good and work in a unified play pattern with each other. However, popping a Titanmaster in a small compartment is no different than a matrix or internal weapon storage IMO. Also, we're getting (and have gotten) combiners, Targetmasters and all sorts of other figures in the Legacy line, so Pretenders and Powermasters don't really need to "work in tandem" with any other figures, right?

I'm totally lost on the logic here. If you have to mangle the point that much to be "right", guess what? You're not right.

"They'll work in tandem with the rest of the line if they ARE the rest of the line", is hilarious even on its own. That's like saying a product is made "waterproof" by keeping it away from all possible sources of water. Or saying Animated Optimus works in tandem with the rest of the line, but only if the rest of the line is Animated Bumblebee and Animated Prowl.

"They'll work in tandem with the rest of the line if they ARE the rest of the line" becomes even sillier in the context of a thread about Transformers Legacy, the whole point of which is a mixing of lines and gimmicks and having everything be able to make aesthetic and play sense next to each other. In a conversation that has been about finding a way to do that with Pretenders in a way that makes sense at modern retail.

Which is doubly confusing because you ALSO talk about other gimmick representatives in Legacy fitting right in with other designs and characters in Legacy -- combiner bots stand side by side with Targetmasters who stand side by side with Junkions who stand side by side with regular bots -- as support for your point that Pretenders somehow don't need to do that?
 

lastmaximal

Administrator
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
One key problem with Pretenders is this: take, say, Kingdom Core class Optimus Prime. The plastic blister bubble he comes in is essentially the shell. Asking for classic style Pretenders now is asking to take essentially that blister bubble (big enough to contain the Core class figure), but give it arms and legs and articulation and paint, and sell the entire package at retail. And even if that works out, you've still got a Core class figure that just doesn't interact as well with the rest of the line for most play needs. (And, of course, with all the parts-count and paint budget limitations of Core class.) Going smaller (Titan/Prime Masters) is even worse, and going bigger is even less of an option.

All for something that, as unluckiness points out, for most purposes (display in particular) doesn't even need the interior robot. Unless you're displaying the shell and inner robot side by side, which looks amazing but demonstrates precisely that one doesn't need to contain the other.

I think it could work as the successors to the Weaponizers. Make a robot that can reassemble into a vehicle or be disassembled into armor that is compatible with most figures but has extra functionality with their intended character. Release a deluxe Octopunch who turns into a crab and release deluxe Pretender™ Flotsam who turns into a boat and disassemble into gloves, boots chest armor and weapons that make Octopunch look like his shell. This also means you can put the diving bell helmet on other figures for lols.

Of course this isn't practical for every Pretender design.

This isn't a bad idea, sort of like the Beast Alliance armors or Cyberverse Spark Armor things. Bit difficult to juggle all those design needs though.

Alternatively, the shell could just be broken up into armor pieces and Centurions-attach onto the inner robot to give them the appearance of the shell. Rather than a budget albatross, the shell (armor set now) becomes a modular kit that can be marketed as mix-and-match with other Pretenders AND the rest of the 3mm/5mm peg-using line. They wouldn't need to integrate into the altmode at all, because the whole point is to armor up the robot mode. That's one less design requirement, and functionally not that different from most standard original Pretender shells anyway. (Pretender Vehicles could be more like Junkions, with the pieces armoring up and changing the vehicle mode from jet to car; Pretender Beasts could play with the inverse, making a regular wolf look like an armored wolf.)

I imagine this would still be a costly thing overall, especially if the inner robot was a Deluxe base to work with the rest of the line and have a decent budget for its own design. For instance, Deluxe Pretender Finback with fish monster armor pieces (boots, chestplate with ball-jointed helmet, back fin, arm blade, claw arm) would probably be a Voyager release.
 
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Badgertron

Active member
Citizen
How about this, then. Turn core class into mini weaponizer/armourizers, which will be based on both Pretender inner robots, and Action master partners, which in turn can be used with the Deluxe class, which will be Action Master homages and don't transform, but are relatively standarized so all the little guy features can be used (Centurion style I guess). Voyagers and Leaders are based on Pretender shells and Mega Pretenders, where the little guys can store in the chests of the voyagers/leaders like power suits, and these larger figures can then transform into vehicles that the deluxe figures can pilot or ride around in. This way, everyone gets to play together.
 

lastmaximal

Administrator
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
I'd rather avoid "they don't transform". Action Master homages can be done a lot of ways: bring the partner figures back as Battle Masters or pack-in Targetmasters, some deco choices (Jazz with slate blue instead of black in places, Shockwave with orange arm gun and chest panel), or best of all, make more new, transforming Action Master-original designs (Powerflash, Rollout, Take-Off, Charger, Gutcruncher, regular retail Kick-Off, etc).
 


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