Transformers: One - New Animated Prequel coming September 20th, 2024 - New Toy Official Images!

Tuxedo Prime

Well-known member
Citizen
I'd buy that (the Soviets rebelled against the Tsar with good intentions before setting up prison camps and a police state of their own) except that IDW1 comes around again and wants me to feel sorry for the guy who waged multiple campaigns of genocide and had a space death camp.
Which is where Getaway, straw mech that he might have been, did have a point. Might have sold that point better if he hadn't left a bunch of Autobots to die under the well-known lack-of-mercies of the DJD, but there we are.

Like... I don't care how well intentioned IDW1 Megs was at the start, or how he felt really sorry when he saw the blue flowers, that guy is guilty of all the war crimes.
Which is where Roberts and Raksha part ways, as Megatron willingly stands trial at the end for all that he did to random planets.

"Whatever the verdict, whatever the sentence.... know that I deserved worse."

It's funny, in the 1990s I found the world terribly complex and often enjoyed story sagas where it was clear just who was on what side. But since 1998 I've seen enough evil for evil's sake in the real world that I actually appreciate self-reflection in my space warfare sagas. It's not everyone's opinion -- and sometimes I contradict myself with nostalgia for the World's Worst Fanfic -- but then I don't claim to speak for anyone but me.
 
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Undead Scottsman

Well-known member
Citizen
I'd buy that (the Soviets rebelled against the Tsar with good intentions before setting up prison camps and a police state of their own) except that IDW1 comes around again and wants me to feel sorry for the guy who waged multiple campaigns of genocide and had a space death camp.

Like... I don't care how well intentioned IDW1 Megs was at the start, or how he felt really sorry when he saw the blue flowers, that guy is guilty of all the war crimes.

You're not supposed to feel sorry for him because he stands in a field of flowers, you're supposed to understand why that prompted a change in his character. Seeing the magnitude of his actions all displayed in a single location, every death that was his fault.

Also keep in mind where Megatron's story ends: not with him being absolved of his crimes, nor celebrated as some hero, despite helping to save two universes from a planet-sized warbot controlled by an even worse version of the totalitarian regime that prompted the original revolution. It ends with Megatron in prison, waiting to find out if his sentence is death or just imprisonment for the rest of his life. (Which for a being that can live millions of years, is a very, very long time).

The comic doesn't suggest that what Megatron did was forgiven, nor that his later change of heart negates his horrific actions.
 
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lastmaximal

Administrator
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
I think it does invite you to feel sorry for him to an extent, but not to forgive him just because he feels the weight of what he did. It's a difficult sort of catharsis that's tempered somewhat by the awareness of the stark reality of it. Like "oh, that's guilt you're now realizing. It's a LOT, I can't imagine having to face that. Sadly, you earned all of it."
 

MrBlud

Well-known member
Citizen
And again, MEGATRON is the one that wouldn’t stop. He wanted all dissent against his technosupremacist regime crushed so he could go out and conquer the rest of the Universe.

Prime was onboard with toppling the Functionists (if not exactly kosher with the methods) but had the Decepticons merely killed the Senate and held new elections I don’t think there would’ve been a Civil War.

Instead Megatron killed the Government, said everyone on the Planet just got drafted into *his* Army and they’re going to go pillage the wider Universe. Optimus and others disagreed so…fight.
 

Swerve

Life of the Party
Citizen
On another IDW note...is One Bumblebee being written a little more like IDW Swerve ...not that I mind an amalgamation of my two favorite characters.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
Which is where Getaway, straw mech that he might have been, did have a point. Might have sold that point better if he hadn't left a bunch of Autobots to die under the well-known lack-of-mercies of the DJD, but there we are.


Which is where Roberts and Raksha part ways, as Megatron willingly stands trial at the end for all that he did to random planets.

"Whatever the verdict, whatever the sentence.... know that I deserved worse."

It's funny, in the 1990s I found the world terribly complex and often enjoyed story sagas where it was clear just who was on what side. But since 1998 I've seen enough evil for evil's sake in the real world that I actually appreciate self-reflection in my space warfate sagas. It's not everyone's opinion -- and sometimes I contradict myself with nostalgia for the World's Worst Fanfic -- but then I don't claim to speak for anyone but me
See I went from wanting my space warfare sagas to be shades of grey morally complex stuff in the 2000s and early 2010s before realizing that... hmm... actually? The real world is morally complicated enough. I want my stories to be... well... not about the crap I had to study in uni talking to Holocaust survivors or seeing play out on the news.
It's why I'm fond of Skybound's Optimus. After over a decade of IDW trying to fit him into their morally grey saga Skybound is just like... "what if Optimus is just a really good dude doing the best he can?"

you're supposed to understand why that prompted a change in his character
The story willingly leaned on historical atrocities that directly affected my family and very loudly said MEGATRON DID THIS
I don't have to understand anything about the guy, honestly.
Yeah, fictional characters, blah blah. We all have personal lines for this stuff, where we're willing to go for story, where our "it's just a story" ends and "that's triggering" begins, and the Holocaust is that for me.
IDW didn't have to go there with Megatron- the Saturday morning cartoon villain who once tried to take over the world with a giant purple griffin- but they did. And I feel a sort of way about that,
 

Undead Scottsman

Well-known member
Citizen
Your confusing storytelling with the story telling you how to feel. The comic shows the events, how you feel about them is up to you. You're quite welcome to never forgive Megatron. The story certainly doesn't as he's either going to be executed or imprisoned for the rest of his existence, either way his life is forfeit for his crimes.

Again, the scene with the flowers isn't supposed to make you feel sorry or forgive him or treat him like everything is honky-dorey. It's supposed to demonstrate why Megatron is going to start taking the actions he will, so when he takes those actions in later comics, you don't go "Well, this is out of the blue."
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
Your confusing storytelling with the story telling you how to feel.
Please don't do the comic book equivalent of "you're playing with it wrong."
Again, I'm not the one who decided to lean on Holocaust imagery to make IDW1 Megs Actual Space Hitler.
Getting annoyed that a Jewish person who had family affected by the very real historical events the story chooses to reference has a point of view of it all that's less than glowingly positive isn't a good look.

You're quite welcome to never forgive Megatron. The story certainly doesn't as he's either going to be executed or imprisoned for the rest of his existence, either way his life is forfeit for his crimes.
That's super. Doesn't Lost Light end with a duplicate Lost Light crew- including Megatron- having continuing adventures?

Again, the scene with the flowers isn't supposed to make you feel sorry or forgive him or treat him like everything is honky-dorey.
Didn't you say "[t]he comic shows the events, how you feel about them is up to you"?
The comic presented that scene with Megatron having come to terms with the sheer scope of his crimes. He's carrying that burden and realizing that he lost his way and is responsible for the suffering all of these flowers represent.

But journey with me, won't you, into the word of the story. If your race was extinguished because of Megatron's techno-supremacy crusade, if you were a citizen of a Cybertronian city that Megatron's armies attacked and slaughtered in the name of their cause and you somehow survived...
Is Megatron's self-realization any comfort?

I ask for that in-universe take because IDW1 Megs' arch very purposefully touches IRL atrocities that affected my family.
And as Nazi camp personnel got put on trial, as some of them spoke of regret for their actions, I found myself not caring. My people, my family, were forever butchered by these people. If some of them felt sorry afterwards, well what comfort is that to those who have been lost?

Now I suppose you could say "you're free to feel that way about IDW1 Megatron" and yes, I do.

But my point is that the flower scene is very much trying to play a certain narrative that we have to recognize and on some level appreciate Megatron realizing he's wrong.

And when you code his crimes like the very real ones my family were victims of, I can't help but scoff at the entire thing.
 

Undead Scottsman

Well-known member
Citizen
Please don't do the comic book equivalent of "you're playing with it wrong."
Again, I'm not the one who decided to lean on Holocaust imagery to make IDW1 Megs Actual Space Hitler.
Getting annoyed that a Jewish person who had family affected by the very real historical events the story chooses to reference has a point of view of it all that's less than glowingly positive isn't a good look.

Excuse me? Trying to use your personal pain to cast aspersions on other people is not a good look.

1. I never said I was annoyed with you and I don't think I even intimated that idea, even. Up until now I thought we were having a normal discussion.
2. I've never once said or suggested that you're not supposed to feel how you feel, just that I don't think the comic was trying to make you feel sorry for Megatron.

But since this appears to be causing you enough consternation, I'll drop it.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
On the subject of the trailer itself, there are a couple of close up shots of Megatron where it looks like he might have some kind of pink/purple energy coursing through his spark and his arm. This makes me wonder if his turn to the dark side in this movie won't be just over moral and ideological disagreements, but if he might be exposed to some sort of corruptive agent like Dark Energon that gradually warps his mind and shifts his ethics toward more violent and villainous tendencies, and that the initial exposure isn't directly witness by either Orion or any of the others, and so when they see Megatron take a turn for the worst, they might think he's actually willingly choosing to do so and not aware of any foreign entity infecting his mind.

Sure, that could/would cheapen his turn and make it less interesting, but then again, this aiming to be a family flick rather than some high concept art piece.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
Excuse me? Trying to use your personal pain to cast aspersions on other people is not a good look.
I'm not.
The only thing I'm accusing you of is being a bit too into a specific run of comics that when someone with a distinctly different viewpoint says "actually it has some issues" you are unable to put your fandom aside to consider said alternate viewpoint.

I don't think it's malicious on your part, but...

I never said I was annoyed with you and I don't think I even intimated that idea, even. Up until now I thought we were having a normal discussion.
... I have gotten the sense that you're not keen on accepting as valid an alternate take.

I've never once said or suggested that you're not supposed to feel how you feel, just that I don't think the comic was trying to make you feel sorry for Megatron.
No you never did!
But where I disagree with you is that I think the flower scene is very much set up as a scene where we're supposed to at least acknowledge and understand Megs, which I just don't vibe with.

But since this appears to be causing you enough consternation, I'll drop it.
If I wanted passive aggressiveness I'd call my aunt. You did the same thing last time this came up between the two of us.
"Forget I said anything," "let's drop it."

I don't think you and I ever got off on the right foot, and I admit maybe I've not been helping, but if you want to have a discussion have a discussion.

I'm not gonna pretend to like something that crosses into very uncomfortable and painful IRL issues because someone else
loves the story. That does me no good, and frankly it doesn't do you any good for me to pretend I thought it was great when I didn't.

So to be clear I don't think you're being malicious in any of this, but I do think we're just coming at this from two different directions that can't help but butt heads.

On the subject of the trailer itself, there are a couple of close up shots of Megatron where it looks like he might have some kind of pink/purple energy coursing through his spark and his arm. This makes me wonder if his turn to the dark side in this movie won't be just over moral and ideological disagreements, but if he might be exposed to some sort of corruptive agent like Dark Energon that gradually warps his mind and shifts his ethics toward more violent and villainous tendencies, and that the initial exposure isn't directly witness by either Orion or any of the others, and so when they see Megatron take a turn for the worst, they might think he's actually willingly choosing to do so and not aware of any foreign entity infecting his mind.

Sure, that could/would cheapen his turn and make it less interesting, but then again, this aiming to be a family flick rather than some high concept art piece.
Between "Megs and Orion try to reform a stagnant Cybertron" and "Quintessons invade" well... that seems like enough?
Dark Energon seems like it would be just one more dangling plot thread.

The thing about Megatron in this trailer I find interesting is that he has what looks like a Decepticon emblem on his left shoulder even during the early "best buds with Orion" days.
 

Undead Scottsman

Well-known member
Citizen
I'll say this much, I was specifically avoiding discussing your personal stake in the story because no matter what else, I cannot speak to it more than you can, so anything I'd say about the topic would be pretty hollow and vapid. Again, how you feel is how you feel, I can't argue against that.

That's why I was trying to keep my statements solely around things I could speak to i.e. what i felt the text of the story was actually trying to do and say, rather than an interpretation based on personal experience.

There's no arguing your history or how it makes you feel about a given work, because that is entirely within the realm of your own experiences and quite frankly even if I did try to argue about it, you'd probably be even more livid that you already are, which basically means that, as a topic, it's a conversation killer.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
and quite frankly even if I did try to argue about it, you'd probably be even more livid that you already are, which basically means that, as a topic, it's a conversation killer.
It'd be more than a conversation killer. Not that I'm accusing you of this- you have said yourself that it's specifically something you tried to avoid- but one reason I got perhaps overly defensive is because Jews seem to be the one minority where it's "acceptable" to tell us how we "should" feel.
Tell a Black person how they should feel about slavery and the KKK? Nope.
Tell a Palestinian person how they should feel about Israeli bombs falling on their people? Nope.
Tell a Jewish person how they should feel about the Holocaust and Nazis? Somehow acceptable.

Again, I'm NOT accusing you of this, but it is depressingly common in western society and it's very much been on my mind lately. I carried some of that baggage into this discussion. So if I implied anything like that towards you, I apologize. Sincerely, I do.

I'll say this much, I was specifically avoiding discussing your personal stake in the story because no matter what else, I cannot speak to it more than you can, so anything I'd say about the topic would be pretty hollow and vapid. Again, how you feel is how you feel, I can't argue against that.

That's why I was trying to keep my statements solely around things I could speak to i.e. what i felt the text of the story was actually trying to do and say, rather than an interpretation based on personal experience.
I think this is the double edged sword with trying to evolve some of these properties to the level of "mature" storytelling. I alluded to it before, but the giant purple griffin... what was that about?
It was a goofy Saturday morning villain plot.

But now that the kids who watched those cartoons are grown up, some of them are now writing for the property and others are still fans, and all of them want to tell "complex" and "mature" stories, and making allegories to the Soviet purges or the Holocaust or the Russian Civil War or WWII allows you to do it.
And I'm not saying parallels to IRL atrocities shouldn't be allowed, heavens no. But I do think it's worth pointing out that IF a writer is going to go there, they accept all of the historical baggage and trauma that comes with that. If you want to take these properties and go in that direction it should probably be done carefully and with a deft hand.

Clearly not everyone will be affected by the same things. I had family killed in Hitler's death camps, you didn't. It's not a shock that a comic story that hinges part of its emotional weight on a Holocaust parallel affects me differently than it does you.
But that's why I said everyone has their own personal lines, their own personal triggers where things go from "just a story" to "ok this is hitting too close to home and I have thoughts." This was that line for me. It wasn't for you, and that's ok. Chances are something else somewhere else is that thing for you.

Anyhow that's my final word on this. Again, my apologies if I crossed any lines or accused you of anything malicious. I didn't intend to.
 

Undead Scottsman

Well-known member
Citizen
Yeah, no worries, and sorry if I did anything to make you feel uncomfortable, it definitely wasn't my intent.

Going back to Transformers One, I will say this most recent trailer did a lot to get me excited (which might be a bad thing, I've been hurt before). I really just want a Transformers movie I can throw on when I'm bored. I always found the bay films too abrasive (and long) for that. Bumblebee is nice, but I got to be in a "80's teen movie" mood before I can put that on.

The '86 movie is still my go to, and I've seen that movie about 20 times too many and it's hard to pay attention to it anymore given I know it by heart. Getting kinda desperate for something new.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Between "Megs and Orion try to reform a stagnant Cybertron" and "Quintessons invade" well... that seems like enough?
Dark Energon seems like it would be just one more dangling plot thread.
I'd personally rather it not be a thing in this movie, either. But seeing those two shots in the trailer with what looked like some kind of evil energy crackling through his body, the thought did cross my mind.
 

Steevy Maximus

Well known pompous pontificator
Citizen
From Hong Kong, Takara revealed a new TFOne Optimus Prime. Looks like a “plused up” Prime Changer to be sold in the leader price point point.
Basically what Takara did last year, taking the Voyager Core Optimus Primal and adding size and gimmicks to push him to the leader price point. It was one of my favorites of last year, much less the Rise of the Beast product line. As of right now, not much aside from images and possible confirmation of a Hasbro import (again, like was done last year).

Revealed on the Panel/livestream was Studio Series Deluxe Megatron. Nice, clean, design it looks like a nice little Megatron. And at least they didn’t use some weird studio Pantone colors to me him an off color or anything…
 
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Donocropolis

Olde-Timey Member
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
I'd personally rather it not be a thing in this movie, either. But seeing those two shots in the trailer with what looked like some kind of evil energy crackling through his body, the thought did cross my mind.

Maybe it's more the opposite, it's not that he was corrupted by a Dark Energon sort of substance, but rather as his own actions/thoughts become darker, they start to corrupt the energy that's inside of him, creating a visible effect. Pretty much just a cinematic effect to show that he's become increasingly evil to kids that may not pick up on the subtleties of the heel turn.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
 

Steadfast

Freelancer
Citizen
Possibly some Animated Bumblebee influence, too.
There's enough zany/wacky kid-appeal character in what we've seen that I half expect Bee to get PTSD during the film.

It would, thematically, tie in nicely to Charlie's depression in her movie. In this essay I will
 


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