Transformers: One - New Animated Prequel coming September 20th, 2024 - New Toy Official Images!
- Thread starter Undead Scottsman
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I'd probably put 2007 at the top and Bumblebee either tied with it (both good, in different ways) or second. The former is still only partly held down by Bayhem as it's early days yet, and has a handful of indelible moments of spectacle that actually have weight. And it's a full cast on both sides. The latter's smaller scale makes it a great personal story, but it doesn't feel as fully "Autobots vs. Decepticons" for that reason.
TF One is a very solid movie, and generally the most "complete" one, and I wouldn't disagree with assessments that put it above those. But it does lack the impact or spectacle if 2007 and the emotional warmth of Bumblebee. Still, again, just on quality and avoiding crassness or dragging slow moments I wouldn't disagree with higher rankings for it.
1986 I wouldn't rank very high outside of a nostalgia boost, as narratively it's not really that good. After Autobot City it's seemingly random hijinks as the heroes just react to things until the Matrix magically fixes everything because we're out of time. Character growth, same thing. Looks and sounds amazing, though.
Then it's probably DOTM, and the rest are tied for last. After the massive letdown that ROTF was, the live-action movies became more useful as opportunities for Jablonsky to release more awesome music (one of the few bright spots from say AOE) and as a junkyard from which to cherry-pick lore bits and characters to repurpose.
TF One is a very solid movie, and generally the most "complete" one, and I wouldn't disagree with assessments that put it above those. But it does lack the impact or spectacle if 2007 and the emotional warmth of Bumblebee. Still, again, just on quality and avoiding crassness or dragging slow moments I wouldn't disagree with higher rankings for it.
1986 I wouldn't rank very high outside of a nostalgia boost, as narratively it's not really that good. After Autobot City it's seemingly random hijinks as the heroes just react to things until the Matrix magically fixes everything because we're out of time. Character growth, same thing. Looks and sounds amazing, though.
Then it's probably DOTM, and the rest are tied for last. After the massive letdown that ROTF was, the live-action movies became more useful as opportunities for Jablonsky to release more awesome music (one of the few bright spots from say AOE) and as a junkyard from which to cherry-pick lore bits and characters to repurpose.
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The problems I have with the first movie:
1. The Transformers aren't characters. Bumblebee is limited by the radio gimmick, the Autobots are basically two dimensional and the Decepticons aren't even that.
2. Way too juvenile: Bumblebee pissing on a dude, the "Sam's happy time" conversation and WHY is the camera leering at this underage girl? (Thank god the actress was at least an adult)
3. I know the way Simmons acts was apparently based on Michael Bay, but the dude just feels like he's from a different film entirely and just messes with the flow of the movie at every step.
4. Too. Many. Characters. The entire hacker subplot could be excised from the movie and it'd be better for it. Same with Sam's weirdo friend who is SUCH an unnecessary character that they have Sam literally abandon him.
Those things hold the film back from any "best of" list in my opinion.
The movie is fine and I enjoyed it at the time, but even then I had a lot of issues with it.
The problem is RotF came out and doubled down on so many of those problems that it made the first movie look even better.
EDIT: Also, I'm just going to say it. Shia LeBeouf/Sam is not good in these films. He's better than Walberg by a mile, but what a actor and character to focus most of your time on. Yikes.
1. The Transformers aren't characters. Bumblebee is limited by the radio gimmick, the Autobots are basically two dimensional and the Decepticons aren't even that.
2. Way too juvenile: Bumblebee pissing on a dude, the "Sam's happy time" conversation and WHY is the camera leering at this underage girl? (Thank god the actress was at least an adult)
3. I know the way Simmons acts was apparently based on Michael Bay, but the dude just feels like he's from a different film entirely and just messes with the flow of the movie at every step.
4. Too. Many. Characters. The entire hacker subplot could be excised from the movie and it'd be better for it. Same with Sam's weirdo friend who is SUCH an unnecessary character that they have Sam literally abandon him.
Those things hold the film back from any "best of" list in my opinion.
The movie is fine and I enjoyed it at the time, but even then I had a lot of issues with it.
The problem is RotF came out and doubled down on so many of those problems that it made the first movie look even better.
EDIT: Also, I'm just going to say it. Shia LeBeouf/Sam is not good in these films. He's better than Walberg by a mile, but what a actor and character to focus most of your time on. Yikes.
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You're going to have to refresh my memory on that one. I only recall scraps and pieces of The Last Knight.
I feel like putting '86 on a ranking of Transformers movies is like putting pizza on a list of your favorite/least favorite candy. It's great, but it's like a whole other thing by comparison.
I feel like TFTM is like... outside of context, I think it's still a lot of fun, but in more of a... I hesitate to say "Rocky Horror Picture Show" kind of way, but I feel like it's just this dazzling '80s light-and-sound rock 'n roll experience.
Honestly, I wish they'd lean more into that somehow, Surround-sound or live music, light show going on. Maybe some pyro or something where applicable... just lean into making it an experience.
'07 is a toku-style monster movie where giant robots named after our favorite characters are the monsters. Yes, even the good ones.
I agree with a lot of that, UndeadScottsman.
Sam isn't terrible in the first film since it's still interested in the Spielbergian "boy and his car" vibe, but he quickly becomes terrible in the next two. And the whole "comedic" angle of having Shia scream a lot -- most gratingly in the DOTM scene where his post-Bumblebee clunker gets damaged by security -- is exhausting and maddening. And Shia is serviceable in the first one, but yeah, it could be anyone doing that I think.
I actually don't mind the "happy time" gag all that much. It works from the standpoint of the actual secret being so out there that this secret becomes the more acceptable one to say out loud? And the cringe of your parents talking about sex (while your love interest is right there) makes for a comedic moment with a teen lead character. I do think actually saying "masturbating" makes it far less funny (I think the cut we saw on opening night cut the word for some reason, so it was just a pregnant pause that Sam then reacted to, which I think worked better.) However the way Judy's entire schtick becomes "says inappropriate things" forever is not a good thing, and has its roots here (since this is basically the only substantial thing she does in this one).
I agree that the Autobots aren't fleshed out much as characters in this one. And they're the ones you want to make easier to connect with (the Cons you can develop in the next one, or keep as scary unrelatable forces of nature). They had a lot of opportunities even with the hectic pacing -- the Arrival scene (where they instead made a mating joke), the yard disguise scene (where they instead made a gun-happy joke and a dog peeing joke), and the "scanning the glasses" scene that's mostly Optimus making a speech (to be fair, that gives HIM some Big Good development).
Sam isn't terrible in the first film since it's still interested in the Spielbergian "boy and his car" vibe, but he quickly becomes terrible in the next two. And the whole "comedic" angle of having Shia scream a lot -- most gratingly in the DOTM scene where his post-Bumblebee clunker gets damaged by security -- is exhausting and maddening. And Shia is serviceable in the first one, but yeah, it could be anyone doing that I think.
I actually don't mind the "happy time" gag all that much. It works from the standpoint of the actual secret being so out there that this secret becomes the more acceptable one to say out loud? And the cringe of your parents talking about sex (while your love interest is right there) makes for a comedic moment with a teen lead character. I do think actually saying "masturbating" makes it far less funny (I think the cut we saw on opening night cut the word for some reason, so it was just a pregnant pause that Sam then reacted to, which I think worked better.) However the way Judy's entire schtick becomes "says inappropriate things" forever is not a good thing, and has its roots here (since this is basically the only substantial thing she does in this one).
I agree that the Autobots aren't fleshed out much as characters in this one. And they're the ones you want to make easier to connect with (the Cons you can develop in the next one, or keep as scary unrelatable forces of nature). They had a lot of opportunities even with the hectic pacing -- the Arrival scene (where they instead made a mating joke), the yard disguise scene (where they instead made a gun-happy joke and a dog peeing joke), and the "scanning the glasses" scene that's mostly Optimus making a speech (to be fair, that gives HIM some Big Good development).
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I would love this. Make it a traveling show with the Cybertronic Spree playing the music live along with the film, giant drone-show Unicron looming over the audience, the whole shebang!
For what it's worth, I consider TFTM to be like a PG Heavy Metal. It definitely has that sense of rock 'n roll spectacle to it.
The '86 movie will always hold a place in my heart and be one of my favorites of all time, but it is far from a well animated and written movie. If you are not a Transformers fan, you'd probably think it was dribble.
The '07 movie was magical at the time. The first time ever seeing our favorite robot friends in live action. I personally love Sam's family. I liked the hacker subplot with Anthony Anderson. I liked the army group escaping a destroyed base subplot. I liked the Barricade/Frenzy tracking down the Allspark subplot. I liked the Sector 7 subplot. In other words, I really enjoyed this movie.
RotF was a great visual experience. This is the one where the acting started to tank a bit. I'm sure the writer's strike was a good chunk of it as it showed that Michael Bay might be good at visualizing a movie, but not good at writing a cohesive one. RotF was basically some cool little short films stitched together to try to make a full length movie.
DotM I thought went back to some of the excitement of the first film. I thought the writing was much better. The story was much improved over RotF and the Siege of Chicago sequence was probably the best sequence in ANY of the TF live action films.
AoE was not well written and certainly not well acted (except for Stanley and Kelsey). It has some visually stunning sequences, but the story was not compelling.
TLK was just bad.
Bumblebee was VERY good. I think it was one of the best written of any of the live action movies.
I still haven't seen RotB yet. I need to get around to watching it since it is on Paramount+.
TFOne just hit all the right buttons with me. I've always loved this kind of CGI animation style so that already was a plus going into it. Then, add on there, this one was well written, well acted, and well animated. This is exactly the kind of Transformers movie I had been wanting for a while.
The '07 movie was magical at the time. The first time ever seeing our favorite robot friends in live action. I personally love Sam's family. I liked the hacker subplot with Anthony Anderson. I liked the army group escaping a destroyed base subplot. I liked the Barricade/Frenzy tracking down the Allspark subplot. I liked the Sector 7 subplot. In other words, I really enjoyed this movie.
RotF was a great visual experience. This is the one where the acting started to tank a bit. I'm sure the writer's strike was a good chunk of it as it showed that Michael Bay might be good at visualizing a movie, but not good at writing a cohesive one. RotF was basically some cool little short films stitched together to try to make a full length movie.
DotM I thought went back to some of the excitement of the first film. I thought the writing was much better. The story was much improved over RotF and the Siege of Chicago sequence was probably the best sequence in ANY of the TF live action films.
AoE was not well written and certainly not well acted (except for Stanley and Kelsey). It has some visually stunning sequences, but the story was not compelling.
TLK was just bad.
Bumblebee was VERY good. I think it was one of the best written of any of the live action movies.
I still haven't seen RotB yet. I need to get around to watching it since it is on Paramount+.
TFOne just hit all the right buttons with me. I've always loved this kind of CGI animation style so that already was a plus going into it. Then, add on there, this one was well written, well acted, and well animated. This is exactly the kind of Transformers movie I had been wanting for a while.
Quintessa brainwashes Optimus into being "Nemesis Prime" and he shows up for the big climatic battle and gets the upper hand on Bumblebee.
Bumblebee is at Nemesis' mercy when he finally gets his voice back and says something like "I'm Bumblebee your oldest friend" and that snaps Nemesis Optimus out of Quintessa's brainwashing.
As for good movies in this franchise...
'86 rips off Star Wars a ton and has nostalgia working for it, but I think it's a pretty good hero's journey for Hot Rod/Rodimus (it did rip off a pretty good hero's journey story after all).
And while the animation isn't perfect it's probably some of the most beautiful Sunbow G1 animation we've ever had.
'07 is flawed, but it's a very good popcorn movie. Transformers doesn't have to be just a popcorn movie but it's also not out of place as one. That's the route they went and for all of its shortcomings it's still pretty great for what it sets out to do. "The Bayverse Sucks" stuff kind of annoys me because while it's 3/5ths true it did reinvigorate the franchise and made everything after possible and... well... I really like those 2/5ths.
DotM is almost non-stop insanity but unlike AoE and TLK manages to stay focused on its story. It's got insane characters full of Michael Bay bro energy but things keep moving in one direction, ya know?
Back then Sentinel's only antagonistic portrayal was Animated, and even Animated Sentinel was a proud Autobot. So the twist that Sentinel would turn on the Autobots, after he was played straight as Optimus' old mentor (even rejecting Optimus trying to give him the Matrix), works really well. And he's got a motivation beyond most Bay movie antagonists.
The final Chicago battle is nuts, and it leaves you exhausted, but when it ends it feels like everything's felt "earned" if you're grading on the Michael Bay scale.
Bumblebee, as I said, tells a sweet story well with relatable characters and a focused premise. Just a very good all around movie.
And TFO? I think it might be my favourite movie in the franchise. It manages to tackle the cast size problem, giving us more than one character to focus on without having too many. Just four protagonists, two main ones, and one antagonist (well these labels get a bit mixed by the end, but it's done well).
Everyone who feels like they should get time gets it, and what does feel rushed is more the fault of the runtime. It's sub two hours, they have to fit the story into that.
The writing is strong though, they remixed established lore in fresh ways (this is easily my favourite version of the Thirteen), and Cybertron actually felt like a lived in place for the first time ever.
My biggest complaint about TF2007 is that the "heroes" deliberately endanger an entire city full of civilians by bringing the macguffin right to them. I can get past the bad directing, bad acting, and barely-coherent plot, but the stupid, careless cruelty of the alleged heroes was my breaking point.
(You have the Allspark, and you have a fortified, defensible, military compound that happens to be a dam. In a Transformers movie. How do you miss that reference?!)
I actually preferred RotF's version, where NEST at least tried to keep the climactic bloodbath away from large civilian populations (and actually saw both sides using some basic strategy, with the Decepticon encirclement and Epps calling in an airstrike to create an opening).
(You have the Allspark, and you have a fortified, defensible, military compound that happens to be a dam. In a Transformers movie. How do you miss that reference?!)
I actually preferred RotF's version, where NEST at least tried to keep the climactic bloodbath away from large civilian populations (and actually saw both sides using some basic strategy, with the Decepticon encirclement and Epps calling in an airstrike to create an opening).
This. 07 is an alien invasion movie with giant metal monsters. It's a twist that any of them have personalities and that some of them are on our side. Imagine getting to watch that movie knowing truly nothing about any of it. The slow motion reveal was brilliant.
This is why I don't hate the hacker subplot. It does its job. My problem with it is it just stalls out and ends up going nowhere. It feels like the writers spent all their brainstorming sessions developing this great buildup to the reveal of the Autobots, and maybe up to the reveal of Sector Seven, and then they reached that point in the script and realized they never really thought about where the movie was going to go after that. So the rest of the story was just hammered into place. After that point, everything that needs to happen just does. They need to find the Allspark, so they just do. The Autobots need to reunite, so they just do.
The script does become a mess but I can forgive that part. Nevada is huge and empty. That city was quite likely the only place in driving distance.
Why leave the fortified, defensible military compound in the first place? Because Megatron was awake, the rest of the Decepticons were on their way, and it was going to be all of them versus just Bumblebee. The rest of the Autobots hadn't reentered the plot yet.
This is why I feel they should have used the hacker subplot to better set up Sector Seven, as the actual introductory scene for them with the vans pulling up to Sam's house and Simmons going "We're the government! Sector Seven!" just felt really rushed and forced in out of nowhere. When Maggie and Glen go "Project: Iceman?" "What's Sector Seven?", they are almost immediately interrupted by a SWAT team arresting them. In the scene as is, we're just supposed to believe they're the police or agents of the Pentagon arresting them merely because Maggie was found out for sneaking top secret information out into public.
But this arrest scene could have had one more shot of Maggie and Glen in handcuffs being dragged out of the house by the SWAT team with two mysterious men in suits and dark glasses silently observing and overseeing the situation, letting the audience know that these two are the ones charge of this arrest. And since we wouldn't have seen these two men before, we'd be left wondering just who they and the SWAT team are if they're not the police or the Pentagon. Said two men would be Simmons and Banachek, giving us our first look at Sector Seven without telling us right away. The first clue to their identity before its confirmed later would be that the arrest happened right after Glen said "What's Sector Seven?", giving the group an almost Beetlejuice-like quality.
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The setup for the 2007 movie was a good one, I think. One central character, a number of subplots that each contribute something toward discovering this alien arrival/threat. The execution fumbled them some, but the idea was solid -- soldiers discover unstoppable humanoid war-weapons and learn how to damage them. Hackers discover bits and pieces about Project Iceman and Sector 7 (but, as Sabrblade notes, this could have been made more substantial). Meanwhile, the unassuming boy and his car get introduced to the car's friends in a mind-blowing sequence set to incredible music. It's the one I'm most forgiving of since it's from a messy time in contemporary franchise-adaptation history (love it or hate it, but the MCU has at least helped codify a formula for a decent 'modern' adaptation movie). Could have used more character fleshing-out, but the alien-ness and slow-burn reveal is the better move here (alas, the characters wouldn't really get more good development later on). It does kind of lose its way and just distract you with a big final battle, which gets it by, but sadly becomes the template for every film after.
ROTF was a violent, striking disappointment. At the time my own anticipation for ROTF was at a fever pitch, more for the lore building than anything. This was a whole new continuity they'd just broken ground on, and there was so much that was possible. The first movie left us with a core team of Autobots on Earth, Optimus putting out the call, and the Decepticons in need of rallying. I didn't even want to buy into the The Fallen stuff at first -- they could just as easily have it be a Megatron revival and revenge story, their Empire Strikes Back, with Prime dying at the end. It was tantalizingly promising, and then... it wasn't. In a season full of such examples, it was a landmark piece of evidence that you shouldn't force a movie together during a writer's strike, solely driven by the willpower of a director with no small amount of skill but also very truly derailing tendencies.
DOTM had a few interesting hooks, but the execution was becoming MUCH more transparently theme-park-ride in nature -- just think of two or three big sequences with explosions and screaming, and then excuse-plot them together. The Chicago siege is exhausting because stuff just keeps happening to keep stuff happening. But the movie in general has a lot going for it. Some of Sam's journey, the Sentinel/Optimus arc, the moon landing being tied into the Ark crash, the Autobots working to keep putting down pockets of Decepticon dissent (and the Wreckers), the bold takeover of a CITY. In the end it's between the first two movies (not that it's hard to out-decent ROTF), although it could have done better to wrap up the first trilogy.
In general, the live-action movies are a great grab bag of fun or cool ideas that would make for a great viewing experience, let down by an apparent refusal to WRITE something of substance that ties all that together.
I wanted to like AOE, and again there are some intriguing possibilities there. Redoing the "first encounter with Cybertronians" in a post-Chicago world, with a dad who's also a tech guy, and there's a race car driver, each of whom would be a perfect foil for a Transformer partner? Lots of good things that could come of it then did not because they spent more time researching the Romeo and Juliet Law. This movie is littered with concepts and features I wanted so badly to amount to something. Ancient knights! (And Kre-O even cued Silver Knight and Gold Knight Optimus!) Freakin' Lockdown! Kelsey Grammer AND Stanley Tucci! In the end the villain portrayals (Lockdown included) were the best thing about this movie, and everything else was terrible except for Drift staring agog at Grimlock and saying "I was expecting a giant car". Much less to redeem this, since even the Autobots were generally unlikable (Crosshairs in the movie trailer? Cool parachuting shooty guy. Crosshairs in the movie? Just the latest in a line of smug assholes that the writers did NOT have the talent level necessary to make interesting.)
TLK, well. You could smell the "we need to kill this franchise to save it" energy all over it, with it feeling the most dispassionately-made and rudderless of the five. This was a mix of undercooked ideas (the weird retcon of Transformers always having worked with humans, and oh they were in WW2; Quintessa and the creators; Unicron; an extended Suicide Squad intro for nobodies we didn't and wouldn't care about), recycled sequences (a space jet chase/shootout akin to the one from AOE, a chase into and out of a building to kill time) and padding (take this car, take this submarine, replace Chicago with floating island thing). I remember a surprisingly minimal amount of sexualization (well, compared to everything else) paired with a lot more swearing than usual, but generally I just couldn't get into the movie at all.
Bumblebee was a real breath of fresh air, and honestly I might have preferred it to come in like a year later to really create some separation. But this was when everything was being hamstrung by indecision about whether to fully reboot or not. I loved how the first trailer or preview I saw (not sure which one it was) didn't even indicate it was a Transformers thing until like halfway through the thing, where Charlie witnesses him transforming. I did not love that the fanservice brought predictable fan behavior out of the woodwork, with all the "see, they finally gave in and Geewun'd everything, this should have always been how they did it". (The designs weren't consistently appealing even aside from that -- for some reason the legs are always the weirdest bits, from Prime to Shockwave to Soundwave -- and the toys show how altmodes weren't even much of a consideration for most of them.) Thankfully my attention was drawn to other corners of the fandom (and official material) who embraced the wholesome Bumblebee/Charlie dynamic.
BUT the movie, well. It was just what I needed to see from Transformers at the time I needed to see it. Always liked Hailee Steinfeld, and she gave the franchise a lot of credibility with a very moving performance, and it was nice to have a charismatic, affecting female lead not be sexualized to hell and back. Sadly, everyone else in the film is largely unremarkable (although it could have used more of Cena). But I was drawn in to the emotional stakes more than I expected to be, and the Iron Giant-esque heart and sincerity of it was exactly what the live-action movies needed.
It's a shame this was largely missing from ROTB, which tried too soon to go big again.
RotF just doubled down on everything I disliked about 2007. Even more juvenile humor (I spent that movie just non-stop going "really?") even more meaningless characters, more ridiculousness with the parents.
DotM was better, but man Bay really can't stop being Bay. "Deep Wang" good lord.
AoE is an absolute travesty of a film. Cade Yeager sucks almost as bad as Mark "Hate Crimes" Wahlberg and now the Deceptions really ARE faceless nobodies! It's a dour, joyless film with a final action sequence that is INTERMINABLE. And you know what? All of that pales in comparison to the movie coming to screeching halt so the writers can explain why it's okay for the 20 year old rally car driver to shtupp the 17-year old daughter of the main character, using a law that DIDN'T EVEN APPLY BECAUSE IT ONLY COVERS UP TO A 2-YEAR DIFFERENCE NOT THREE!!!! Just absolutely disgusting and the fact that Hasbro and Paramount signed off on that is absolutely bizarre and proof that they really didn't care what Bay did with the franchise. Gross. Gross gross gross.
TLK: I've spoken about this before, but this movie gives so little of a damn about continuity or making sense or anything that its actually allows me to turn off my brain and just enjoy it as a dumb movie. Completely trash the existing continuity? Eh, not like the movies cared about that before. Introducing a secret society that worked with transformers for hundreds if not thousands of years where EVERY FAMOUS PERSON IN HISTORY WAS A PART OF? Okay, sure, whatever. Introducing a bunch of Decepticons with SOME personality with an elaborate suicide squad knockoff sequence that takes forever... and then killing them off in like 30 seconds? Okay, that's a pretty impressive bit of a bad writing that I am amused. Just a colossal mess of a movie that is at least fun to gawk at. Also it's funny that it's the first movie to outright set up a sequel and was also the one to not get a sequel.
Bumblebee: A breath of fresh air. The bots on cybertron actually resemble the characters from the franchise! How novel! A fun coming of age story filled with 80's nostalgia, but without making it completely annoying? Decepticons with character? Honestly if they had managed to dump the radio gimmick and give Bee a face that looked more like G1, I'd have nothing bad to say about this film. (I find Bee's face to just be ugly as hell, and not even in a "I don't like the Bay aesthetic" kind of way.)
RotB: What would happen if you took Bay out of the Bay movies, but kept the same formula? A pretty tepid mess, TBH. It's not offensively bad, but it's also like, kind of just there. There's no bite or hook to this film. I enjoyed the first half but about the time they script has Scourge pull out a mind control weapon that is used once, results in a character dying and is never mentioned again is just sloppy writing, and the MCU style mindless action sequence at the end was a waste of money. At least the Autobots have some personality now.
Transformers: the Movie is a unique kettle of fish. Just such a corporation with such a monumental misunderstanding of why their property was popular creating an utterly bizarre, incredibly memorable 80's fever dream. It's not a good movie, but dear god there really isn't anything else like it and I doubt there ever will be again. It's a movie about kids toys where they brutally murder the toys in the most callous and ultimately dismissive way possible! It's incredible, and as a cultural artifact it is unparrelled. Also great soundtrack and both the returning and new voice cast is excellent, with props to the sound team for taking Orson Welles' dying performance and making one of the most unique sounding villains of all time in Unicron. Still not a good movie, and I've seen it too many times to be able to watch it without my mind wandering or fallening asleep, but it'll live in my heart foreveer.
TF: One. It's a solid-ass movie where the Transformers get to be characters, there's no human plot to take time away from them, it is fully embraced into all the weirdness and quirks of the franchise and genuinely feels like it comes from a place of love for Transformers. It's not a perfect film, but good lord it's the best Transformers film just solely by being a good Transformers film. It's not a disaster movie using a 80's toy franchise as a skin, it's not an excuse to murder out old characters and replace them with new ones, and it's not even a lower-key horse girl movie that happens to have Transformers in it. It's pure Transformers and it is completely solid.
DotM was better, but man Bay really can't stop being Bay. "Deep Wang" good lord.
AoE is an absolute travesty of a film. Cade Yeager sucks almost as bad as Mark "Hate Crimes" Wahlberg and now the Deceptions really ARE faceless nobodies! It's a dour, joyless film with a final action sequence that is INTERMINABLE. And you know what? All of that pales in comparison to the movie coming to screeching halt so the writers can explain why it's okay for the 20 year old rally car driver to shtupp the 17-year old daughter of the main character, using a law that DIDN'T EVEN APPLY BECAUSE IT ONLY COVERS UP TO A 2-YEAR DIFFERENCE NOT THREE!!!! Just absolutely disgusting and the fact that Hasbro and Paramount signed off on that is absolutely bizarre and proof that they really didn't care what Bay did with the franchise. Gross. Gross gross gross.
TLK: I've spoken about this before, but this movie gives so little of a damn about continuity or making sense or anything that its actually allows me to turn off my brain and just enjoy it as a dumb movie. Completely trash the existing continuity? Eh, not like the movies cared about that before. Introducing a secret society that worked with transformers for hundreds if not thousands of years where EVERY FAMOUS PERSON IN HISTORY WAS A PART OF? Okay, sure, whatever. Introducing a bunch of Decepticons with SOME personality with an elaborate suicide squad knockoff sequence that takes forever... and then killing them off in like 30 seconds? Okay, that's a pretty impressive bit of a bad writing that I am amused. Just a colossal mess of a movie that is at least fun to gawk at. Also it's funny that it's the first movie to outright set up a sequel and was also the one to not get a sequel.
Bumblebee: A breath of fresh air. The bots on cybertron actually resemble the characters from the franchise! How novel! A fun coming of age story filled with 80's nostalgia, but without making it completely annoying? Decepticons with character? Honestly if they had managed to dump the radio gimmick and give Bee a face that looked more like G1, I'd have nothing bad to say about this film. (I find Bee's face to just be ugly as hell, and not even in a "I don't like the Bay aesthetic" kind of way.)
RotB: What would happen if you took Bay out of the Bay movies, but kept the same formula? A pretty tepid mess, TBH. It's not offensively bad, but it's also like, kind of just there. There's no bite or hook to this film. I enjoyed the first half but about the time they script has Scourge pull out a mind control weapon that is used once, results in a character dying and is never mentioned again is just sloppy writing, and the MCU style mindless action sequence at the end was a waste of money. At least the Autobots have some personality now.
Transformers: the Movie is a unique kettle of fish. Just such a corporation with such a monumental misunderstanding of why their property was popular creating an utterly bizarre, incredibly memorable 80's fever dream. It's not a good movie, but dear god there really isn't anything else like it and I doubt there ever will be again. It's a movie about kids toys where they brutally murder the toys in the most callous and ultimately dismissive way possible! It's incredible, and as a cultural artifact it is unparrelled. Also great soundtrack and both the returning and new voice cast is excellent, with props to the sound team for taking Orson Welles' dying performance and making one of the most unique sounding villains of all time in Unicron. Still not a good movie, and I've seen it too many times to be able to watch it without my mind wandering or fallening asleep, but it'll live in my heart foreveer.
TF: One. It's a solid-ass movie where the Transformers get to be characters, there's no human plot to take time away from them, it is fully embraced into all the weirdness and quirks of the franchise and genuinely feels like it comes from a place of love for Transformers. It's not a perfect film, but good lord it's the best Transformers film just solely by being a good Transformers film. It's not a disaster movie using a 80's toy franchise as a skin, it's not an excuse to murder out old characters and replace them with new ones, and it's not even a lower-key horse girl movie that happens to have Transformers in it. It's pure Transformers and it is completely solid.
One reason I have RotB so low is that it felt like a regression.
Bumblebee was great, and though RotB had a different director everything about it following from Bumblebee gave me hope that it would follow its direction.
Instead we got some of the worst aspects of the Bay films returning. Cybertronians who are barely characters, a mishmash of plot ideas that might work on their own but lose a lot when forced together, an unlikeable Optimus, Bumblebee being back to his Bayverse self instead of the sweet smallboi he was in the last movie, frantic pacing, Cybertronians randomly inserted into Earth history, and a McGuffin hunt. Top it off with Hasbro trying to make "fetch" happen again with GI Joe* and it's just like... I was disappointed. I went in wanting to like the movie but it just fell back into too many Bayverse trappings after Bumblebee seemed like a step in the right direction.
Noah is certainly closer to Charlie than he is to either Bay-directed Sam or Cade in that he's a mostly likeable normal dude but neither he or his bro can make up for the film's issues.
*had RotB been a Bay movie then I feel like, at the very least, the secret government org at the end would have been Sector 7 and that would have been preferable IMO
Yep. And say what you will about Michael Bay (I'll insist that he's capable of, and has made, good movies) but at the very least the dude knows how to shoot something and make you feel the energy.
Bay's incredible when it comes to cinematography (to the point that James Cameron unironically called him a genius) and even the worst Bayverse films (RotF, AoE, TLK) at the very least manage to do pure spectacle right.
Remove him but keep the same tired story and plot structure and you get a movie that lacks the sauce, as the kids say.
Hopefully the next one also ditches the formula, because there are better formulas. And doesn't try to ape his style anymore (given how tricky it can be to get down), but gets someone with their own. (Or, I guess, bring in other styles and motifs in general.)
Part of why Bumblebee was so exciting was it showed this could be done satisfyingly with a smaller cast and a fresh look. I would have loved to see sequels in that same vein that also built an overarching story.
ROTB had a good core human story that was completely obscured by the Grand Epic Threat. If the scope and scale were cut in half, the story could have had more room for that and for character work.
Picture a sequel where Noah has a similar story arc with Mirage, with the B plot (heh) of Bee trying to catch Optimus up on things and appreciate Earth, which could well be their new home rather than just a temporary base.
They get wind of Decepticons on Earth (this turns out to be Nightbird and Battletrap) and Optimus is reluctant to get involved beyond protecting his immediate circle, which to him might as well be all that remains of the Cybertron he doomed. (His guilt also raises the question of whether they should even be hunting down these cons who are also just refugees fleeing the doomed Cybertron.) This is heightened when Bee is gravely wounded in battle against the just-arrived Scourge.
Noah puts himself in harm's way to save Mirage, and this moves Optimus to beat back the cons. Scourge is set ablaze in a huge explosion or whatever and left to sink in the Hudson (?) or wherever. The other cons hint at something bigger coming before hightailing it.
Basically, I guess, the first half of the movie with the museum fight as the climax, no Maximals, no Unicron (but hint at him via the Terrrorcons, who at the end reject being called "mere" Decepticons), no Elena character/subplot.
Spoilering the rest of this ramble, which is just continuing sequel idea spitballing...
Part of why Bumblebee was so exciting was it showed this could be done satisfyingly with a smaller cast and a fresh look. I would have loved to see sequels in that same vein that also built an overarching story.
ROTB had a good core human story that was completely obscured by the Grand Epic Threat. If the scope and scale were cut in half, the story could have had more room for that and for character work.
Picture a sequel where Noah has a similar story arc with Mirage, with the B plot (heh) of Bee trying to catch Optimus up on things and appreciate Earth, which could well be their new home rather than just a temporary base.
They get wind of Decepticons on Earth (this turns out to be Nightbird and Battletrap) and Optimus is reluctant to get involved beyond protecting his immediate circle, which to him might as well be all that remains of the Cybertron he doomed. (His guilt also raises the question of whether they should even be hunting down these cons who are also just refugees fleeing the doomed Cybertron.) This is heightened when Bee is gravely wounded in battle against the just-arrived Scourge.
Noah puts himself in harm's way to save Mirage, and this moves Optimus to beat back the cons. Scourge is set ablaze in a huge explosion or whatever and left to sink in the Hudson (?) or wherever. The other cons hint at something bigger coming before hightailing it.
Basically, I guess, the first half of the movie with the museum fight as the climax, no Maximals, no Unicron (but hint at him via the Terrrorcons, who at the end reject being called "mere" Decepticons), no Elena character/subplot.
Spoilering the rest of this ramble, which is just continuing sequel idea spitballing...
The third movie can then follow a new Autobot/human pairing. Maybe Optimus working with a June Darby type -- no shipping, thanks, but I've always wanted to have Op get to be Robot Dad, and in a more effective way than a throwaway line in AOE about raising Bumblebee. Maybe she could take the place of the Elena character, working at the museum and helping the Diaz boys study up on the artifact the Terrrorcons were after, furthering that plot point.
Bee and Mirage could be working in tandem to search for the escaped Terrrorcons, but run afoul of more traditional Decepticons (introduce Barricade and whoever) who are confirming that "this is the planet" -- making inroads for the arrival of Megatron, who's eager to take over this energy-rich world.
End this one with Prime seemingly killing Megatron by stabbing him in the spark with their half of the transwarp key (blasting half of his body into a transwarp wormhole), and the Terrrorcons successfully reviving Scourge and telling him they've piggybacked on the humans' search to discover where the second half of the transwarp key is, that they can use to bring in.... Unicron. However, an audio-only stinger that plays over the credits has Megatron's spark reached out to by a voice that laments his servants failing him, and asserts his need for a new champion. Adrift, Megatron can only say, "I... accept your terms."
This slow burn can leave more room for the characters to be fleshed out, and for a more substantial human plot that can develop both the humans and their Autobot friends. And perhaps even scenes for the cons to get some depth. The first trilogy just lets us invest in the characters and settles them on Earth, while seeding elements that can come to a head in the next trilogy -- the Unicron Trilogy? -- where the returned Megatron can kill Optimus Prime, the Maximals can step in to shelter the Autobots, Scourge can lead the battle for the other half of the transwarp key, Megatron can fight Scourge to steal the combined artifacts and make Unicron his slave, and Bumblebee can fist pump in joy upon seeing a commercial for Charlie's successful chain of auto repair companies because I hadn't thought further ahead than this.
Bee and Mirage could be working in tandem to search for the escaped Terrrorcons, but run afoul of more traditional Decepticons (introduce Barricade and whoever) who are confirming that "this is the planet" -- making inroads for the arrival of Megatron, who's eager to take over this energy-rich world.
End this one with Prime seemingly killing Megatron by stabbing him in the spark with their half of the transwarp key (blasting half of his body into a transwarp wormhole), and the Terrrorcons successfully reviving Scourge and telling him they've piggybacked on the humans' search to discover where the second half of the transwarp key is, that they can use to bring in.... Unicron. However, an audio-only stinger that plays over the credits has Megatron's spark reached out to by a voice that laments his servants failing him, and asserts his need for a new champion. Adrift, Megatron can only say, "I... accept your terms."
This slow burn can leave more room for the characters to be fleshed out, and for a more substantial human plot that can develop both the humans and their Autobot friends. And perhaps even scenes for the cons to get some depth. The first trilogy just lets us invest in the characters and settles them on Earth, while seeding elements that can come to a head in the next trilogy -- the Unicron Trilogy? -- where the returned Megatron can kill Optimus Prime, the Maximals can step in to shelter the Autobots, Scourge can lead the battle for the other half of the transwarp key, Megatron can fight Scourge to steal the combined artifacts and make Unicron his slave, and Bumblebee can fist pump in joy upon seeing a commercial for Charlie's successful chain of auto repair companies because I hadn't thought further ahead than this.
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You can keep the maximals, just make them actually important to the plot.
I've harped on this before, but the whole thing about Scourge and his crew is that they are too powerful for the Autobots to take on alone... So adding in the Maximals could have evened the odds.
Get rid of the crappy CGI army fight that hasn't been interesting since Infinity War, have Arcee, Cheetor and then a clutch save by Bumblebee take on Nightbird, Rhinox and Wheeljack take on Battletrap and then Prime and Primal take on Scourge while Mirage helps the humans do their their thing and protects them once Scourge realizes what's going on and focuses his attention on them.
You save runtime that can be used to give the maximals characterization, you save a shitload on the cgi budget because you don't have to animate a giant army spanning a huge are, and you save everyone's attention span for not having to sit through a boring videogame cutscene.
I've harped on this before, but the whole thing about Scourge and his crew is that they are too powerful for the Autobots to take on alone... So adding in the Maximals could have evened the odds.
Get rid of the crappy CGI army fight that hasn't been interesting since Infinity War, have Arcee, Cheetor and then a clutch save by Bumblebee take on Nightbird, Rhinox and Wheeljack take on Battletrap and then Prime and Primal take on Scourge while Mirage helps the humans do their their thing and protects them once Scourge realizes what's going on and focuses his attention on them.
You save runtime that can be used to give the maximals characterization, you save a shitload on the cgi budget because you don't have to animate a giant army spanning a huge are, and you save everyone's attention span for not having to sit through a boring videogame cutscene.
See, my sequel idea was just to take a page from Empire Strikes Back and split up the established character relationships:
With more Transformers (of both factions) arriving on Earth, Bumblebee convinces Optimus to make an alliance with the humans. Optimus has him reach out to the one military-connected human that believe they can trust: Jack.
Meanwhile, Charlie stumbles across something Decepticon-related and goes looking for Bumblebee, but ends up finding Optimus.
When the plot crisis hits, both groups are cut off from each other, eventually reuniting for the climactic action scene.
Jack and Bumblebee are both soldiers, but with very different styles; Jack is kind of a macho jerk, while Bee is still child-like and more directly heroic (Autobots in general are also a lot more "casual" than human soldiers, both due to their durability and to the apocalyptic nature of the war). Jack would also have a more strategic/analytical/experienced view of exactly what the Transformers are and what they're capable of --less the fantasy of ET and more of the slightly-harder sci-fi of The Abyss.
Meanwhile, Charlie would give us a chance to see the more father-like Optimus we remember from G1 (and see how Optimus reacts to innocents getting involved in the war --eventually realizing that his responsibility now is to protect Earth and its people, just as he would have protected Cybertron).
For the plot, I'd crib from DW's Infiltration books; make it a small-scale covert war that's threatening to go hot. Maybe the main villain is someone like Soundwave (an expert at using pawns and agents rather than attacking directly). In the end, Soundwave is defeated, but it's revealed he's sent out a signal to his master: Megatron is coming. . . and Optimus swears that Earth will be ready.
(The third movie would be Megatron's arrival, and would focus on the Optimus/Jack team-up --we've moved on to Independence Day-style military sci-fi.)
With more Transformers (of both factions) arriving on Earth, Bumblebee convinces Optimus to make an alliance with the humans. Optimus has him reach out to the one military-connected human that believe they can trust: Jack.
Meanwhile, Charlie stumbles across something Decepticon-related and goes looking for Bumblebee, but ends up finding Optimus.
When the plot crisis hits, both groups are cut off from each other, eventually reuniting for the climactic action scene.
Jack and Bumblebee are both soldiers, but with very different styles; Jack is kind of a macho jerk, while Bee is still child-like and more directly heroic (Autobots in general are also a lot more "casual" than human soldiers, both due to their durability and to the apocalyptic nature of the war). Jack would also have a more strategic/analytical/experienced view of exactly what the Transformers are and what they're capable of --less the fantasy of ET and more of the slightly-harder sci-fi of The Abyss.
Meanwhile, Charlie would give us a chance to see the more father-like Optimus we remember from G1 (and see how Optimus reacts to innocents getting involved in the war --eventually realizing that his responsibility now is to protect Earth and its people, just as he would have protected Cybertron).
For the plot, I'd crib from DW's Infiltration books; make it a small-scale covert war that's threatening to go hot. Maybe the main villain is someone like Soundwave (an expert at using pawns and agents rather than attacking directly). In the end, Soundwave is defeated, but it's revealed he's sent out a signal to his master: Megatron is coming. . . and Optimus swears that Earth will be ready.
(The third movie would be Megatron's arrival, and would focus on the Optimus/Jack team-up --we've moved on to Independence Day-style military sci-fi.)
AOE did that first, ending with Optimus taking the Seed into space and him sending a warning message to the Creators, declaring that he's coming for them. That, plus Optimus and the Dinobots being knights whom the Creators sent Lockdown to capture, were set up to be explored further in the next movie.
Then the next movie happened and turned out to be TLK instead of a proper sequel.
That's what it was originally going to be. The scene was even filmed with the reveal being Sector Seven. But Steven Caple Jr. felt that the test screenings of the scene didn't get a big enough reaction from test audiences. Then, when they got the idea to try swapping the Sector Seven reveal out with a G.I. Joe reveal, that netted a bigger audience reaction from later test screenings.