Transformers One Spoiler Discussion

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Though I do kinda like the idea of Optimus being a quiet, humble bookworm who got thrust into Authority and rose to the occasion.

"When a good man goes to war," and all that.
Oh, for sure. But while this movie sees him taking initiative and wanting more out of life (basically like a Disney Renaissance-era protagonist), I never got the impression he wanted to take over and become an authority figure. He wanted recognition and better opportunities, yes, but was still "thrust into Authority" by the path Alpha Trion set him on, never expecting to become Sentinel's replacement chosen by God Himself.
 

Undead Scottsman

Well-known member
Citizen
I paid more attention to the fight scenes this time around, and this movie really does a lot with the idea that these guys can just pop out wheels or weapons while in robot mode. A lot of partial transformations in this movie, Megatron almost goes full gerwalk at one point. Between this and Earthspark S1, we're eating good for cool Transformers fight scenes.

Also, this movie is kinda oddly paced. Not as bad as the 1986 film, but like the first third(?) of the movie is like generic animated CG film hijinx, and then they go on a quest for 15 minutes and then completely upend the status quo, then the second half of the film is just them going back to iacon and fighting the final battle, with a quick pitstop to run into the High Guard.

They go from four nobodies to leading a successful two-pronged revolution in like, a day. Wild.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
The idea of Orion being the thrill-seeking rule-breaker and D-16 being a stickler for the rules somehow just works so much better than what Exodus established with Orion being a rule-follower who has his eyes opened to the possibility of change by Megatron already being a violent radical who wants to tear down the system.

This movie basically inverted what Exodus did with the two and made it work so much better.
The Aligned version always rubbed me the wrong way because Megatron as this miner turned gladiator had hints of "he was always a violent psychopath wasn't he?" which is a far less interesting character.
Maybe it's just me, but I didn't read the story in Exodus as "D-16 opens Orion Pax's eyes" so much as I read it as "idealistic and naive bookworm Orion Pax falls for violent brute using populist ideals to mask his own lust for power."

That is itself a poignant narrative and sure you could go in that direction, but if you really want to sell Orion Pax and D-16 as legitimate friends as close as brothers then I think TF One's inversion works perfectly.
Megs doesn't come off as a violent, power hungry tyrant in waiting. He comes off as a dutiful and well-intentioned guy happy to just do his job and rise up the ranks on his own merit because he believes in the system. His later violence to the point of burning down everyone and anyone who hasn't specifically pledged allegiance to him is understandable because of that earlier devotion and belief in the system. He was lied to. He was duped. He believed in someone who not just lied to him and sold out his home, he took a vital part of who he could be before he was even online.
His anger is far more relatable because he was content to be someone who played by the rules before he realized the rules were all rigged.

Meanwhile Optimus Prime's belief in higher ideals and a desire to build a better Cybertron through those ideals rather than violence is reflected in Orion Pax's nature in this movie. Even when he's content with the status quo for the most part, he sees problems and wants to fix them. Not by hurting people who stand in his way, but by proving his ideals are right.
He doesn't join D-16 on the "anger to the point of political violence" journey because he already had some doubts about things and beliefs in how things could be better.

You see this in the cave scene. Alpha Trion shows them the truth about Sentinel Prime and his regime and Orion responds downtrodden and upset, but he says "I always knew something didn't feel right."
Meanwhile D-16 stews in his anger and rage until he erupts with a loud declaration that he wants to make Sentinel suffer slowly before killing him.

But while this movie sees him taking initiative and wanting more out of life (basically like a Disney Renaissance-era protagonist), I never got the impression he wanted to take over and become an authority figure.
Exactly. His big plan is to find the Matrix for Sentinel. He's a hothead and not content but he's also not a revolutionary and fully buys into the broad strokes version of Sentinel's regime. He doesn't want to find the Matrix to be a Prime, he wants to find the Matrix and give to the Prime he believes in.

He's still very much an unwilling protagonist, and only really steps up to stand up to D-16 when D-16 starts thinking he can pave a path to peace with blood (or energon as the case may be). He even sacrifices himself for someone he knows to be a despicable Quisling not because he's on his side, but because he just can't let D-16 build a "new order" on a foundation of political violence.

He goes from wanting to find the Matrix for someone else to being chosen by it due to a selfless sacrifice.
 

Fero McPigletron

Feel the fear!
Citizen
Just clarifying but Sentinel Prime really meant to award Orion Pax and D16 for inspiring the miners to work harder, right?

It was just Darkwing, acting on his own, who threw them into the garbage level. Sentinel had no knowledge of this?

If true, it feels like such an iffy detail that Darkwing caused everything else to happen.

---

Would have been more poetic to have Sentinel be two faced and first congratulate Orion Pax and D16 then say he doesn't like being upstaged then order them sent to the dumps.

That way, D16 would be eager to present the Matrix to him, to get back to his good graces. Orion Pax could get the inkling that Sentinel is bad but D16 would still be loyal, thinking the demotion was a mistake. Then the reveal of Sentinel being a killer traitor would have a bigger impact.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
Would have been more poetic to have Sentinel be two faced and first congratulate Orion Pax and D16 then say he doesn't like being upstaged then order them sent to the dumps.
There's some chatter about this on YT. The view tends to be that Sentinel actually did mean to congratulate and reward them as their exploits in the race increased mining productivity, which as we later find out Sentinel really wants. And him saying he'll send them on a tour of all the mines to motivate the entire mining labour force makes all the sense in the world for a guy who wants to increase productivity as much as possible to pay off his Quintesson overlords.

If true, it feels like such an iffy detail that Darkwing caused everything else to happen.
I don't see it as iffy, I see it as sublime chance. You'd be shocked how often the wheels of history have turned IRL over petty or otherwise seemingly small things.
One angry bruiser looking to abuse his authority because he got upstaged inadvertently setting wheels in motion that upends the entire status quo doesn't feel contrived at all. It feels... like sometimes things like that do happen.
 

Cybersnark

Well-known member
Citizen
Just clarifying but Sentinel Prime really meant to award Orion Pax and D16 for inspiring the miners to work harder, right?

It was just Darkwing, acting on his own, who threw them into the garbage level. Sentinel had no knowledge of this?
That's the impression I got.

I mean, "award" with a bit of shiny metal and a few pictures for the newsfeeds, but then back to the mines.

It wouldn't have cost him anything and would have strengthened the goodwill they'd brought him.
 

Undead Scottsman

Well-known member
Citizen
To be fair, so did Luke Skywalker. ;)
Luke Skywalker joined up with an existing, fully formed rebellion, and even that was single pronged.

Or to put it another way, the Rebellion wasn't sitting around, doing hit and run attacks and then Luke went "Hey, let's take the fight to the Empire!" and suddenly everyone found their spine. Nor did he rouse a bunch of working class people to fight for the Rebellion.

Luke just joined up and became the poster boy because of his leet Jedi powerz.

EDIT: Also it took like four years and three movies to overthrow the Empire and not half of a movie / a day. :)
 

Cybersnark

Well-known member
Citizen
And Luke wasn't leading anything until later, when he and Wedge co-founded Rogue Squadron.

He was just another fighter pilot during the Battle of Yavin. Not even a flight leader.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
Also, this movie is kinda oddly paced.
All of that is true but it's also a movie less than two hours long. It had to fit a lot of narrative into the run time.

I suppose you could have paced it so that it ends with Sentinel's forces capturing Alpha Trion and Orion, D-16, Bee, and Elita vowing to rescue him and topple Sentinel's regime, leaving that and the rise of Optimus Prime and Megatron for the sequel, but do you really want to stretch the origin story into a multi-film project?
The pacing was a bit crazy but they did manage to make the story self-contained, and I think they pulled it off.

He was just another fighter pilot during the Battle of Yavin. Not even a flight leader.
That pilot briefing scene is so funny when you realize that in-universe it's the equivalent to a hillbilly in overalls waltzing into a briefing of F-35 pilots and declaring the mission that will push them to their limits is gonna be easy 'cause he shotguns rodents from the back of his uncle's pickup truck.
 

Undead Scottsman

Well-known member
Citizen
All of that is true but it's also a movie less than two hours long. It had to fit a lot of narrative into the run time.

I suppose you could have paced it so that it ends with Sentinel's forces capturing Alpha Trion and Orion, D-16, Bee, and Elita vowing to rescue him and topple Sentinel's regime, leaving that and the rise of Optimus Prime and Megatron for the sequel, but do you really want to stretch the origin story into a multi-film project?
The pacing was a bit crazy but they did manage to make the story self-contained, and I think they pulled it off.

You wouldn't need to do anything that drastic. Remember, the film doesn't need to be in "real time."

You could leave the movie mostly the same until they get captured by the High Guard. Instead of instantly getting captured by Sentinel, Pax and Megatron convince the high guard to go on the offensive and then spend a few weeks with the high guard, getting ready for the assault on Iacon, and we see Megatron get more and more radicalized by their survival of the fittest routine until he finally takes control from Starscream, but while everyone is distracted by the fight, Sentinel army finds them and the movie mostly plays out like it did beforehand.
 

Fero McPigletron

Feel the fear!
Citizen
I don't see it as iffy, I see it as sublime chance. You'd be shocked how often the wheels of history have turned IRL over petty or otherwise seemingly small things.
One angry bruiser looking to abuse his authority because he got upstaged inadvertently setting wheels in motion that upends the entire status quo doesn't feel contrived at all. It feels... like sometimes things like that do happen.
I guess. (Yeah, like how IDW Whirl abusing Megatron started the great war).

But it feels a bit annoying that an obscure character that's named similar to The Terror That Flaps on the Night gets to be the person who jumpstarts everything.
 

LordGigaIce

Another babka?
Citizen
The entire Protestant Reformation- and the religious history of the Western world- was forever altered because one priest was tired of hearing a monk of his named Martin Luther constantly confessing about every little thing. So he told him to "study the Bible" just to get him out of his hair.
 

Sabrblade

Continuity Nutcase
Citizen
Our heroes and the High Guard getting ambushed by Airachnid's forces wasn't a random plot convenience, it was set up earlier. In the scene where Sentinel meets with the Quintessons, they are watched from afar by Orion & Friends, who made some small noise and movement that were sensed by Airachnid. This led to the attack at the cave where Alpha Trion stayed behind to hold off the enemy and get captured in order for Orion's team escape. And during their escape, they ran into some Trackers in the mountainous forest aware from the cave and had to take them out.

That fact that some of the Trackers got defeated in this area outside of the cave would lead Sentinel and Airachnid to determine that someone else other than Alpha Trion had been there and was aware of Sentinel's meeting with the Quints. Needing to eliminate all witnesses, Sentinel would have ordered Airachnid to take her forces and hunt down and capture/despose of these stragglers in order to keep his secret arrangement with the Quints from being revealed to citizens of Iacon City. We just didn't see any of that because it all happened offscreen when the story was instead too busy focusing on D-16's descent into vengeance-driven violence.
 

Undead Scottsman

Well-known member
Citizen
Your mistaking my desire for a different flowstate for the plot with saying the plot didn't make sense, which I not something I'm doing.

I never at any point insinuated the High Guard getting discovered to be a "random plot coincidence" and in fact it's literally spelled out later in the movie that the Death Trackers tracked Pax and Co to the High Guard.
 

Fero McPigletron

Feel the fear!
Citizen
Btw, I'm disappointed that they didn't call the continually extending roads as 'Space Bridges'.

Or the cargo transports as 'Astrotrains'.

Yeah, the trains aren't in space and the roads aren't in space but when I saw them, those were the names that came to mind, hehe
 

Maruten

Member
Citizen
It had not remained at the front of my mind but if there was one element of the movie that rubbed me the wrong way, it's Orion's shift to miner instead of librarian. I really like the Optimus and Megatron relationship being built on two people from very different walks of life who come together and bond nevertheless, before being forced apart.

However that critical friendship period in the middle that allows them to be tight frenemies later is rarely explored to any great extent, and One's approach is undeniably smart, I semi-reluctantly suppose.
 


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