Transformers One Spoiler Discussion

[LordGigaIce]

I really like the Optimus and Megatron relationship being built on two people from very different walks of life who come together and bond nevertheless, before being forced apart.

It's a good idea, but IMO it has never really be realized. Megatron already felt like he was power hungry and violent, just waiting for an excuse in Exodus, the main version of that story in Aligned.

A story where naive and bookish librarian Orion Pax and miner-turned-idealistic revolutionary D-16/Megatron becoming close friends before having a falling out is an intriguing one but no attempt has done the idea justice, by my count.

Putting Orion and D-16 into the same workspace allows for a much simpler and straightforward "they were as close as brothers" narrative.

 

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

Orion Pax has had a lot of jobs if you think about it... dock worker, archivist, cop, scientist, extreme skate board instructor... but I think making him a peer of D-16/Megatron is the right way to go if you're going to commit to them being friends/as close as brothers before the war.

Look, with G.I. Joe trending downward, someone has to step up and be Hasbro's answer to Barbie as a multi-career aspirational role model to children the world over.

Just clarifying but Sentinel Prime really meant to award Orion Pax and D16 for inspiring the miners to work harder, right?

It was just Darkwing, acting on his own, who threw them into the garbage level. Sentinel had no knowledge of this?

If true, it feels like such an iffy detail that Darkwing caused everything else to happen.

---

Would have been more poetic to have Sentinel be two faced and first congratulate Orion Pax and D16 then say he doesn't like being upstaged then order them sent to the dumps.

That way, D16 would be eager to present the Matrix to him, to get back to his good graces. Orion Pax could get the inkling that Sentinel is bad but D16 would still be loyal, thinking the demotion was a mistake. Then the reveal of Sentinel being a killer traitor would have a bigger impact.

I honestly read it as Sentinel being two-faced, because he didn't want the miners aspiring to be more than they were.

 

[ZacWilliam1]

Sentinel was very obviously being a fake superficial condescending dick to them even when he was saying the nice things. There is a real sense of underlying menace from him in that scene to the audience while the characters don't see it. That's a really strong scene because they don't see how much danger they're actually in from him. He didn't care about them one way or the other. Promised them a reward and did not give two shakes whether they actually got it or were vaporized the second he left the room or heck while he was watching.

Was it conceivable that he put Darkwing up to it? Ehhh, probably not because there was no real reason for him to lie to their face and then double cross them secretly because there was no audience for the lying part. It was just all part of his usual act and a paper thin façade.

I think preserving their ignorance on that point though makes the eventual revelation much stronger: If they had that strong evidence of his jerkishness early it would make D16s hurt feel more foolish and less of a betrayal I think.


-ZacWilliam, one would imagine in some alt world where he wasn't a sociopath the story might have proceeded for a while with non-dickhead Sentinel trying to locate/rescue them while they had adventures.

 

[Donocropolis]

I definitely read it as Sentinel honestly planning on using them for propaganda purposes as long as it was convenient, but once they disappeared, he didn't care enough to look into it at all. After all, they were only miners, who cares what happened to them?

 

[lastmaximal]

I'm fine with the Darkwing thing being on Sentinel's orders. While, yes, henchmen acting on their own accord happens, this streamlines the narrative and gives D-16 another reason to feel betrayed by his idol (which we were shown him feeling anyway).

Sentinel had already gotten the benefit of added productivity from the mines before ditching them. It would also make sense to spin it as them being promoted to elsewhere, and if others reached a certain benchmark they too could be promoted.

Even if later on a pervasive rumor (that they were disappeared) spreads, this may be after reaping the productivity benefits, and it may send the signal that such behavior would not actually be rewarded.

 

[LordGigaIce]

Look, with G.I. Joe trending downward, someone has to step up and be Hasbro's answer to Barbie as a multi-career aspirational role model to children the world over.

I'd buy every single figure in a line all about Orion Pax's many career. Every. Single. One.

I honestly read it as Sentinel being two-faced, because he didn't want the miners aspiring to be more than they were.

Yeah. Sentinel gives them a nice repair session in his personal quarters, gives them a tour of every mining pit to motivate the work force, then puts them back to work.
Not a bad plan from an evil bastard perspective. It probably would have worked. D-16 would have eaten it up and happily gone back to work in the mines and Orion might have grumbled but what's the worst he's gonna do? Break into the archives again?

Darkwing had to go muck it up though, and inadvertently bring the whole system down.

There is a real sense of underlying menace from him in that scene to the audience while the characters don't see it. That's a really strong scene because they don't see how much danger they're actually in from him.

They really did make him Transformers Homelander and that's fantastic.

 

[Sabrblade]

After watching both the most recent Transformers: The Basics video (on Orion Pax), and this video from TJOmega:

...I realized something about this movie's depiction of Orion Pax: He's basically what the 1986 movie tried and wanted to do with Hot Rod (but the backlash to Optimus's death forced the cartoon to walk it back by bringing back Optimus and having him take back the Matrix from Hot Rod at the end of Season 3).

Orion Pax is a spirited, rambunctious, thrill-seeking, rule-bending, happy-go-lucky youngster with little regard for authority and a motivated drive to live life to the fullest. He then goes on a hero's journey where he makes mistakes, learns from them, and follows a higher calling to fulfill his destiny, becoming the next Autobot Leader chosen by a divine force. That's basically Hot Rod's personality and intended character arc in a nutshell.

Remember when TF: Prime introduced Smokescreen and people accused him of being a stand-in or even ripoff of Hot Rod? Well, TF One has basically done the same thing again with Orion Pax, but this time no one's complaining because it's Optimus Prime himself who's given this treatment instead of some other turbo-revvin' young punk set up to replace him.

 

[Fero McPigletron]

Sentinel as Homelander?!? That's... crazy. I can totally see it. Crazy.

Oh, I loved Prime Smokescreen and I was disappointed he didn't emerge as a break out character. He should be used again. With RiD Sideswipe.

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Also, is there a reason why Starscream's voice was wrecked? I thought it odd that they focused on it for a while.

And he was really telling D16 to kill him? Like, hit him harder? I wasn't sure at a certain point (cuz of voice warbles) but I thought I heard it.

Masochism or being suicidal aren't the evergreen Starscream traits. (Though I recall there were two Starscream clones in TFAnimated that were used as suicide bombs, in that Lockdown and Prowl ep).

 

[Sabrblade]

Also, is there a reason why Starscream's voice was wrecked? I thought it odd that they focused on it for a while.

D-16 crushed his throat.

 

[MrBlud]

In IDW V1 Orion and Megatron weren’t really friends before the schism.

Orion saw Megatron in jail, read his book and told him to keep writing. Then after Optimus took to the outlands with his proto Autobot Army he talked with a future Megatron for a few minutes.

That was pretty much the extent of their interactions.

 

[Dekafox]

And he was really telling D16 to kill him? Like, hit him harder? I wasn't sure at a certain point (cuz of voice warbles) but I thought I heard it.

Masochism or being suicidal aren't the evergreen Starscream traits. (Though I recall there were two Starscream clones in TFAnimated that were used as suicide bombs, in that Lockdown and Prowl ep).

I read it as taunting him. Like "Bring it! I cna take whatever you can dish out!" to prove his strength.

 

[MrBlud]

In IDW V1 Orion and Megatron weren’t really friends before the schism.

Orion saw Megatron in jail, read his book and told him to keep writing. Then after Optimus took to the outlands with his proto Autobot Army he talked with a future Megatron for a few minutes.

When they teamed up to stop Zeta, Megatron was already commanding the Decepticons.

 

[Fero McPigletron]

D-16 crushed his throat.

Yes, but narratively, why did they keep the voice wrecked? They could have left at he was strangled then that's it but then there was an extra electronic warble. Then later Sentinel brought it up, saying its weird. Did John Hamm ad-lib that part?

I think after that, Starscream talked again to say All Hail Megatron, with the twang. Was that significant in any way?

It wasn't like he was originally named Starstorm but when people heard him talk in a wrecked screechy voice, they degraded him by calling him the screamer, Starscream. Then perhaps it would add to the reasons why he wants to destroy Megatron.

I read it as taunting him. Like "Bring it! I cna take whatever you can dish out!" to prove his strength.

That's what I figured. But then I think I heard the 'kill me' part. I thought that was too much. Unless I misheard?

 

[Undead Scottsman]

Well, Starscream got captured before he could have gotten his throat repaired (rememebr, this is a franchise where throat damage can leave you permanently mute) so, narratively, threre's your answer.

The real reason is it's a reference to the original Starscream's voice.

 

[Sabrblade]

Yes, but narratively, why did they keep the voice wrecked? They could have left at he was strangled then that's it but then there was an extra electronic warble. Then later Sentinel brought it up, saying its weird. Did John Hamm ad-lib that part?

The whole thing was done just so they could make a joke about how silly Chris Latta's screechy Starscream voice always sounded.

And, let's not kid ourselves, here. Chris Latta's Starscream voice was very silly. We fans just give it a pass because of how iconic it is. But at the end of the day, it's still a very silly screechy voice, and TF One wanted to lightly poke fun at that fact.

 

[lastmaximal]

I'm not sure it was even that. It's an unintentionally (competed to Soundwave's) common voice from a damaged voice box, that's enough to get a "wow that guy sounds weird".

Working it into the movie was a nice touch, especially since it added to the Megs/Starscream lore and the choking was a visceral part of their scene.

 

[Sabrblade]

Here's a well-done analysis of B-127's special brand of humor in this movie:

 

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

After watching both the most recent Transformers: The Basics video (on Orion Pax), and this video from TJOmega:

...I realized something about this movie's depiction of Orion Pax: He's basically what the 1986 movie tried and wanted to do with Hot Rod (but the backlash to Optimus's death forced the cartoon to walk it back by bringing back Optimus and having him take back the Matrix from Hot Rod at the end of Season 3).

Orion Pax is a spirited, rambunctious, thrill-seeking, rule-bending, happy-go-lucky youngster with little regard for authority and a motivated drive to live life to the fullest. He then goes on a hero's journey where he makes mistakes, learns from them, and follows a higher calling to fulfill his destiny, becoming the next Autobot Leader chosen by a divine force. That's basically Hot Rod's personality and intended character arc in a nutshell.

Remember when TF: Prime introduced Smokescreen and people accused him of being a stand-in or even ripoff of Hot Rod? Well, TF One has basically done the same thing again with Orion Pax, but this time no one's complaining because it's Optimus Prime himself who's given this treatment instead of some other turbo-revvin' young punk set up to replace him.

Oh yeah, I mentioned this earlier in this thread. Or the other one. I forget which.

"It seems Primus has a type," I added, paraphrased.

And I was even coming into this thread with the express purpose (besides catching up) of saying the only thing missing from Orion Pax effectively validating Hot Rod in '86 was having him try to stop D-16 and Sentinel fighting is pouncing on Sentinel, and Sentinel using him as a shield.

How great would not only that have been, but also to have D-16 opt to take the shot, anyway?

 

[Sabrblade]

And I was even coming into this thread with the express purpose (besides catching up) of saying the only thing missing from Orion Pax effectively validating Hot Rod in '86 was having him try to stop D-16 and Sentinel fighting is pouncing on Sentinel, and Sentinel using him as a shield.

How great would not only that have been, but also to have D-16 opt to take the shot, anyway?

Or maybe the '86 movie should have had Hot Rod jump in between Optimus and Megatron and take a shot meant for Optimus by Megatron, thus 80s kids wouldn't have blamed him as much for "getting Optimus killed".

 

[Fero McPigletron]

The real reason is it's a reference to the original Starscream's voice.

Huh, I actually didn't equate the electronic warble as a supposed copy of Chris Latta's screechy voice because I thought the movie was using Steve Busemi using his, ahem, Star power to get by as a new Starscream. Like, his voice usual personality and inflection overriding the expected Starscream voice (like KMK on the new Bee personality).

That's why I'm wondering about the possible suicidal or glutton for punishment angle during the beatdown. If I heard that right.

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Side thing but was there a cogless Cliffjumper in the background?