Transformers: Rise of the Beasts

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

I don't mind humans being in the films, and feel the last two handled it pretty well. But I want my Transformers movies to be about the Transformers, not about the humans who do stuff with the Transformers.

I feel like the last two kind of hit 50/50 with it -- it felt more like a partnership to me, which is fine in my book.

 

[Lobjob]

In the bay movies we see transformers project holoavatars. Using them to even interact with our human cast wouldn't be horrible. They can even glitch out to not be perfect or show yes, these are only used so often.

Again, this is just trying *something* to get these characters more opportunities to get characterization.

 

[Cybersnark]

Yeah, there's a distinction between "holo-drivers" who can sit in a driver's seat and deliver dialogue and full holomatter avatars who can walk around and interact with physical objects.

As for the VFX budget-per-character, I'm curious as to how that breaks down in terms of designing, animating, and rendering. It may be possible to cut corners somewhere (simpler designs with fewer individually-moving parts, physically-identical "repaints," off-camera lines, frame-blocking, amortizing a cost over several movies, etc).

 

[Sabrblade]

Well, expecting us to care that Ironhide died when he only spoke a total of three sentences over four movies isn’t making the robots relatable *enough* IMO.

Especially when one of those three sentences was a suggestion to murder some innocent people, which made Optimus go "Ironhide! You know we don't harm humans! What is with you?!"

Which, in hindsight, kinda both acts as foreshadowing to later movie Autobots also being murder-happy psychos, and as a point of making Optimus later look pretty hypocritical with all his "I'll kill you!" "We will kill them all," "He's going to die," dialogue in those later movies.

Oy vey.

 

[lastmaximal]

Well, expecting us to care that Ironhide died when he only spoke a total of three sentences over four movies isn’t making the robots relatable *enough* IMO.

I wholeheartedly agree, but the answer to that is to write the robot properly, not this holomatter avatar idea. Even if the latter were somehow to be followed, the same type of writing (the humans don't fare much better in those movies) brings us back where we started.

I don't mind humans being in the films, and feel the last two handled it pretty well. But I want my Transformers movies to be about the Transformers, not about the humans who do stuff with the Transformers.

I feel like the last two kind of hit 50/50 with it -- it felt more like a partnership to me, which is fine in my book.

This is fair,, and I also agree with it. Humans have a place in the story, but a big part of that role is as a "way in" to the Transformers characters and world, and as foils. It isn't their movie.

I also think the last two movies struck that balance fairly well. The 2007 movie was also decent with it, and AOE seemed to have flashes of it in Cade bonding with Prime, but by then the Bayhem and theme-park-ride writing was a black hole no sense of narrative depth or complexity could escape from.

 

[Sabrblade]

I wholeheartedly agree, but the answer to that is to write the robot properly, not this holomatter avatar idea. Even if the latter were somehow to be followed, the same type of writing (the humans don't fare much better in those movies) brings us back where we started.

Yeah, it's really sad when we have to consult media outside of the movies in order to get personally-written content for the movie characters. For Ironhide in particular, you'd never know from watching only the movies that he's actually a closet fan of American Football. In one of the Transformers: Classified novels, it's described how he would often have fellow Autobot Gears (the focal Autobot of those novels) sit down to watch football games with him. While Ironhide claims that it's solely for Gears to study field tactics and strategy, Gears observes that Ironhide gets really excited and invested in every game they watch. Something like THAT would be amazing to actually see onscreen in the movies instead of our having to be told about it in a book.

This is fair,, and I also agree with it. Humans have a place in the story, but a big part of that role is as a "way in" to the Transformers characters and world, and as foils. It isn't their movie.

I also think the last two movies struck that balance fairly well. The 2007 movie was also decent with it, and AOE seemed to have flashes of it in Cade bonding with Prime, but by then the Bayhem and theme-park-ride writing was a black hole no sense of narrative depth or complexity could escape from.

In all honesty, as bad as ROTF was, it too gave more focal time to the bot characters than the first movie did. It's just that the bots that movie chose to focus on was were Skids, Mudflap, and Wheelie. Oh, and Bumblebee. All the cool ones like newcomers Sideswipe, Jolt, and Arcee, and the returning Ironhide and Ratchet, were still relegated to the background.

 

[Cybersnark]

I think part of the problem is that aside from a couple of cases (Sam and Cade) we don't really get continuing human characters, so we A) don't really get enough time for coherent character development, B) have to re-hash the "introduction to Transformers" theme every damn time, and C) can't mix-and-match characters in interesting ways (which is what the best sequels do).

Like, when Bumblebee came out, I had an idea for a sequel which would've included Charlie and Jack (John Cena's character), with Jack being the one who spends the movie teamed up with Bumblebee (letting Jack's macho bullshit bounce off Bumblebee's more earnest heroism), while Charlie ends up meeting Optimus (letting us see a different side of Prime than the movies usually present; less the bloodthirsty warrior and more of the wise father-figure we remember from the 80s).

 

[lastmaximal]

I would've loved that. Just continuing that specific tone and combination of characters would have been great.

 

[Agent X]

Saw Beast Allegiance Wheeljack with an all-brown* Rhinox battlemaster. Knew about the upcoming Arcee/Cheetor, but didn't know about this. Not that I payed much attention to the releases.

*2 shades

 

[Cybersnark]

Saw Beast Allegiance Wheeljack with an all-brown* Rhinox battlemaster. Knew about the upcoming Arcee/Cheetor, but didn't know about this. Not that I payed much attention to the releases.

*2 shades

I just got that yesterday (I was at Walmart for unrelated stuff). He's a surprisingly great little toy once you get past the brown wheels and lack of paint. Alt-mode is decent (though there are a few gaps and things that have to be massaged just right to get into position).

Thinking of calling him Dataset (function: researcher), since he's obviously not Wheeljack.

 

[Haywire]

Saw Beast Allegiance Wheeljack with an all-brown* Rhinox battlemaster. Knew about the upcoming Arcee/Cheetor, but didn't know about this. Not that I payed much attention to the releases.

*2 shades

I am jealous! I've seen the Scourge/Scorponok armor set in the wild, but have yet to find Wheeljack outside the Target 3-pack.

...also, my headcannon is that in the movieverse, the name Wheeljack is the Cybertronian equivalent of John Smith...

 

[Dvandom]

Okay, watched it. Noah's scenes prior to the parking garage scene could have been replaced by a couple lines of dialogue and nothing would have been lost. Such painful canned "gotta have a human plot" dreck. And boy did the Unicron-granted "invincibility" vanish utterly as soon as the final fight began, so that Optimus could go on a dismembering spree.

The movie was not without good points, but man was it loaded with bad points.

---Dave

 

[Sabrblade]

...also, my headcannon is that in the movieverse, the name Wheeljack is the Cybertronian equivalent of John Smith...

So, at some point in Cybertron's past, a 'bot named Wheeljack sailed to a new land and nearly got killed by the natives?

 

[Haywire]

So, at some point in Cybertron's past, a 'bot named Wheeljack sailed to a new land and nearly got killed by the natives?

On the shores of Quintessa, yes. Also, there are reports of a 'bot named Wheeljack who travels in a strange blue box...

 

[Superomegaprime]

On the shores of Quintessa, yes. Also, there are reports of a 'bot named Wheeljack who travels in a strange blue box...

I heard he travels in a Orange box that contains his workshop and on the door a sign says "Will not be held accountable for fatal injuries or lost of body parts!!"

In my headcannon for G1 Wheeljack, he is a genius engineer, but his experiments always tend to blow up because he put far to much into them, like the time he tried to make a portable space bridge that could also do the tango!!

 

[Steevy Maximus]

Okay, watched it. Noah's scenes prior to the parking garage scene could have been replaced by a couple lines of dialogue and nothing would have been lost. Such painful canned "gotta have a human plot" dreck. And boy did the Unicron-granted "invincibility" vanish utterly as soon as the final fight began, so that Optimus could go on a dismembering spree.

The movie was not without good points, but man was it loaded with bad points.

---Dave

But are the bad points AS BAD as those found in prior Michael Bay directed entries?

 

[lastmaximal]

To me the main thing that approached that level of bleh was Still Murderous Optimus. It continues to annoy me that they have Cullen on board and keep wasting him on RRRAGRH KILL NO MERCY faux badassery. The man's in his 80's, damn it. Let him be everyone's robot dad again while he still can.

Here it's more than just ruthless battle lust -- he's also curt and generally abrasive, yay -- and they do try it justify it with some actually interesting insight into the burden of leading during this tumultuous time (which they then try their hardest to tie to Noah, but that's a bit eh).

But he's still just so unlikable (and now in varying flavors) that the few times he's not that way come across as too little too late (the Til All Are One conversation) or hollow (suddenly not a dick, begging Noah not to destroy the key). I was genuinely surprised when early reviews mentioned it, as this new slate would've been the perfect chance to give Optimus' characterization the fresh start it needed. And here, the first time he's front and center, it's kinda more of the same.

They do build to a turn at the end where he likes humans now (just ahead of a speech that's as tacked on as some of the Bay films'), so who knows.

(There's also the weird "hola papi" joke with Noah/Wheeljack that feels like an attempt at a fresh take on the Hot Rod accent joke that really doesn't offer anything all that fresh, but that's quite minor compared to this.)

 

[tec]

I saw it a solid C+ Elena was the only real part of the movie I didnt like.... that action scene in the museum did her no favors

 

[Steevy Maximus]

Not sure where to put this, but since I’m comparing it to other RotB toys…
One of “those toy reviewers” got their hands on Studio Series Optimus Primal, images have been ganked from the video. In addition to shots of the figure itself, there are comparisons of other Voyager releases and with the large “Ultimate Optimus Primal” from Takara (which is shipping now! Got my notice from BBTS!).

Studio Series Leader ROTB Optimus Primal In-Hand Images

Via PrimeVsPrime on Youtube, we now have an in-hand image gallery of the new Studio Series Leader ROTB Optimus Primal figure. This gallery shows off his bot and beast modes, his accessories and features, some poses, and size comparisons. Optimus Primal is a very detailed figure for sure. Check...

news.tfw2005.com

My decision not to preorder Is feeling justified. There are a LOT of choices here that feel..inelegant. Most of my prior complaints remain: it looks too complicated for what it’s trying to do, it’s an over engineered Voyager with extra articulation and accessories. In hand, a new set of other problems present themselves. The biggest being color and deco issues.
I’m not sure if that is intentional or not, but the “blotched/worn” silver paint doesn’t work. I‘m sure it’s supposed to look like “wear” from age, but in the absence of it in other areas makes the deco look more like it’s chipping as a production issue. The decision to omit several key deco points (the thighs and abs) is baffling at this price point.
But the biggest peeve that has come out of these pics is the that nasty “pre-aged” grey plastic garbage they have going on. I feel I’m a pretty understanding guy when it comes to many design compromises, but that plastic choice is just not excusable. It looked bad on PMOP during Titans Return, it looks bad here. Considering both the Voyager and Optimus Prime (BOTH Voyagers!) used a more appropriate shade makes this decision even worse. It contrasts in the worse way with the silver deco and just doesn’t flow with the rest of the figure.

About the only real shining point to me are the accessories. The Transwarp Key is nicely done (with splitting feature), and the chains are a novel addition to the weapon system and has enormous potential in use in other figures (as seen with the Battletrap image). The ax is nicely sculpted, but suffers being cast from the same off grey the figure is (the Optimus holding pic really illustrates how that doesn’t work). But I can’t justify $60 for a few accessories. If in hand responses about the engineering are good, I may consider a clearance buy. As it stands? I think I’ll just stick with my Ultimate Primal. It might not be accurate, but it looks FUN. Or if I wanted something more accurate, I can get the articulated model kit for about 2/3rds the price.

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

One of “those toy reviewers” got their hands on Studio Series Optimus Primal, images of been ganked. In addition to shots of the figure itself, there are comparisons of other Voyager releases and with the large “Ultimate Optimus Primal” from Takara (which is shipping now! Got my notice from BBTS!).

I refer to them as "tealeaves" myself. Anyway, here are some of the pics.