We live in a capitalist dystopia

Ironbite4

Well-known member
Citizen
And you wanna know who's to blame for this whole thing? Reagan. Not Ronnie, but Nancy. If she wasn't so hell bent on sacking the working class, we wouldn't be in this mess. But we are and now we're going to see if the MAGA Morons that Trump has created are going to accept the fact that the health insurance industry is not on their side and will continue to murder them.

Ironbite-bet we see at least 1-2 more CEOs dead in the next year.
 

Pale Rider

...and Hell followed with him.
Citizen
FB friend:
2024 may go down in history as the Year of the Oligarchs.

It's not just Trump winning, or all the billionaires he appointed to his cabinet. It's the fact that Elon Musk could use his vast personal wealth to literally buy a big chunk of social media, make it say what he wanted, and effectively decide the outcome of the US election. It's the year when everyone found out that an oligarch bought a US Supreme Court justice with millions of dollars in gifts, and nobody cared.

2024 was the year the Empire Struck Back.
Corporate tax cuts do not create jobs.
Corporate tax cuts do not create jobs.
Corporate tax cuts do not create jobs.
Corporate tax cuts do not create jobs.
Corporate tax cuts do not create jobs.

I don't know how much more emphatic I can be about this. For the umpteenth time, employee salaries are paid for with BEFORE-TAX dollars, so the corporate tax rate has no effect on a company's ability to hire or pay workers. The only thing the corporate tax rate affects is its ability to pay shareholder dividends, because shareholder dividends are paid with after-tax dollars.

Trump's promised huge corporate tax rate cut is a gift to Wall Street, not Main Street.
 

The Mighty Mollusk

Scream all you like, 'cause we're all mad here
Citizen
7dewC9N.jpeg
 

CoffeeHorse

Exhausted, but still standing.
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
They didn't understand why "the foolish populace are so inordinately fond of celebrating" Robin Hood either. He was also a murderer, and also maybe came from a wealthy family.
 

Ungnome

Grand Empress of the Empire of One Square Foot.
Citizen
And you wanna know who's to blame for this whole thing? Reagan. Not Ronnie, but Nancy. If she wasn't so hell bent on sacking the working class, we wouldn't be in this mess. But we are and now we're going to see if the MAGA Morons that Trump has created are going to accept the fact that the health insurance industry is not on their side and will continue to murder them.

Ironbite-bet we see at least 1-2 more CEOs dead in the next year.
Most CEOs are a drain on the companies that employ them as well. The position sounds way more important and is paid way more than it really should be, outside a few outliers. They do make a good scapegoat when things go south, though. Helps deflect attention away from the board of directors. I think that's the only reason most large corporations keep the position around.
 

Pale Rider

...and Hell followed with him.
Citizen
FB friend:
As the media desperately tries to snuff out online criticism of health insurers, they are constantly reminding us that the majority of US health insurance customers are happy with their coverage. But there are two caveats that they are deliberately not mentioning:

1: These people have no experience with any alternative, so they have no basis of comparison. It's like asking someone how good McDonald's burgers are in comparison to other burger chains, in a country where McDonald's is the only burger chain.

2: Most of these people have probably not had the sort of serious health crisis which would reveal the deficiencies in their coverage. Health insurance profit margins rely on cutting the costs incurred by their most expensive customers, ie- the ones with the most serious health problems.

Health insurers keep customer goodwill high by doing a passable job with all the inexpensive customers, and they calculate that the most seriously ill customers are too few in number for their tragedy to cause a society-wide uproar. This is the ruthless math they've employed for decades.

"Investigative journalism" is dead and buried. Instead of investigating the rich and powerful, they investigate those who the rich and powerful tell them to investigate. Instead of doing searing exposés on the reptilian practices of the health insurance industry, they repeat misleading pro-industry publicity talking points like this one, while adopting the infuriatingly condescending tone of an adult trying to explain things to children.
 

Teufel

Active member
Citizen
The media's not trying to snuff out online criticism, social media anger about health insurance and celebration of the executive's death has been a feature of a lot of coverage on news sites and networks. Sometimes I think FB Friend just makes stuff up.
 

Rhinox

too old for this
Citizen
The media's not trying to snuff out online criticism, social media anger about health insurance and celebration of the executive's death has been a feature of a lot of coverage on news sites and networks. Sometimes I think FB Friend just makes stuff up.
I would disagree. The New York Times coverage alone is galling in its bias.
 

Teufel

Active member
Citizen
I don't read the NYT, but looking at three of the most recent articles I'm not sure how this is snuffing out criticism.

After the Wednesday shooting, social media exploded with anger toward the insurance industry and Mr. Thompson.

“I pay $1,300 a month for health insurance with an $8,000 deductible. ($23,000 yearly) When I finally reached that deductible, they denied my claims. He was making a million dollars a month,” read one comment on TikTok.

Another commenter wrote, “This needs to be the new norm. EAT THE RICH.”

The author Joyce Carol Oates weighed in on social media, after an initial version of this story was published, saying that the outpouring of negativity “is better described as cries from the heart of a deeply wounded & betrayed country; hundreds of thousands of Americans shamelessly exploited by health-care insurers reacting to a single act of violence against just one of their multimillionaire executives.”

The shooting has also prompted patients and family members to weigh in publicly, sharing wrenching horror stories of insurance claim reimbursement stagnation and denials — painful recountings of insurance company interactions that have become all too familiar in a nation facing a health care crisis.




Reading these seem pretty straightforward and fair, if the ghouls online look bad in them it's because they're acting like ghouls. Lookalike contests glorifying a murderer? Yeah, kind of scummy. Maybe you could say "health insurance employees afraid" is an odd framing on the last article, but then again the celebration and threats are in part intended to make them afraid so reporting on the end results seems fair as well. When you say bias do you mean the tone of the articles isn't explicitly that the executive got what he deserved? There are other places like Rolling Stone where you can get something like that.
 

Ungnome

Grand Empress of the Empire of One Square Foot.
Citizen
I've built a safe-house at the top of Mauna Loa. They can go there and stay safe, it even has a convenient over-sized trap door, for safety!!!
 

NovaSaber

Well-known member
Citizen
Reading these seem pretty straightforward and fair, if the ghouls online look bad in them it's because they're acting like ghouls. Lookalike contests glorifying a murderer? Yeah, kind of scummy. Maybe you could say "health insurance employees afraid" is an odd framing on the last article, but then again the celebration and threats are in part intended to make them afraid so reporting on the end results seems fair as well. When you say bias do you mean the tone of the articles isn't explicitly that the executive got what he deserved? There are other places like Rolling Stone where you can get something like that.
You're literally linking to stories that put more focus on direct reactions to the killing and less on the criticisms of the systemic issues, so how do you even think this is evidence against the claim that they're trying to take attention away from the criticisms?

United Healthcare is the worst in an industry whose very existence is a product of a broken system.
Its CEO is responsible for numerous deaths even if you only count the claims they denied that other insurance companies would have approved.
His killer was someone whose claim had been denied; his motive was anger at things that United was indisputably guilty of.

Those are the facts that should be at the forefront.

Focusing on the strongest reactions, pretending to not know the motive, and generally treating this particular killing as somehow worse than random murders (that barely get a mention) are all ways of talking about the incident that take attention away from the fact that it happened because of very real things being actually wrong.

And the NYT also ran that utter abomination of an article trying to claim the asshole victim should be viewed as the real hero, so hug them. (Not that they hadn't already lost credibility years ago, but this might just be the dumbest thing I've seen from them.)
 

Teufel

Active member
Citizen
You're literally linking to stories that put more focus on direct reactions to the killing and less on the criticisms of the systemic issues, so how do you even think this is evidence against the claim that they're trying to take attention away from the criticisms?

United Healthcare is the worst in an industry whose very existence is a product of a broken system.
Its CEO is responsible for numerous deaths even if you only count the claims they denied that other insurance companies would have approved.
His killer was someone whose claim had been denied; his motive was anger at things that United was indisputably guilty of.

Those are the facts that should be at the forefront.

Focusing on the strongest reactions, pretending to not know the motive, and generally treating this particular killing as somehow worse than random murders (that barely get a mention) are all ways of talking about the incident that take attention away from the fact that it happened because of very real things being actually wrong.

And the NYT also ran that utter abomination of an article trying to claim the asshole victim should be viewed as the real hero, so hug them. (Not that they hadn't already lost credibility years ago, but this might just be the dumbest thing I've seen from them.)

The part you didn't quote included a snippet of those kind of criticisms featured in an NYT article ranging from social media rage to more thoughtful expressions. Hiding in them in plain sight, crafty buggers. If criticisms of the health care industry get less attention than the terrorism he committed, that's pretty normal for terrorism! It's often a really ineffective way of getting your message out or centering the conversation on what you want because it gets lost in the violence and killing. When Mangione was reading Kacyznski he should've read up a little more on his manifesto getting overshadowed by the bombing campaign.

What's the source on Mangione being denied an insurance claim? I hadn't seen that before and can't find it when I look.

Link

In years of posts on a Reddit account, he described a series of life-altering health problems. He said that he had back pain that worsened until a surgery in 2023 and that he had struggled with “brain fog.” But his only reference to insurance coverage in the posts noted that Blue Cross Blue Shield had covered testing for irritable bowel syndrome.

Link

New York Police Department Chief of Detectives Joseph Kenny said Luigi Mangione, the 26-year-old accused of killing UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, may have filed an insurance claim for back pain last year.

“He was posting an X-ray on his social media. Some of the writings that he had, he was discussing the difficulty of sustaining that injury,” Kenny said during a Tuesday appearance on Fox News’s “Your World with Neil Cavuto.”

“So we’re looking into whether or not the insurance industry either denied a claim from him or didn’t help him out to the fullest extent.”

Seems still to be determined at least in regards to his back.

Also you're raging about an op-ed that wasn't even a staff editorial, just one man's opinion. I've never read Bret Stephens and I don't feel like starting now, but there's a different article with multiple op-ed writers chatting and they express much more sympathy for Mangione and go off on the insurance industry and American health care. A healthy op-ed section is supposed to do that; multiple viewpoints, some of which you may not like or find objectionable on some level to penetrate your bubble.

This was at least helpful in answering my question whether the NYT was snuffing out criticisms or some just wanted the tone to lean more towards justifying the murder.
 

Ultra Magnus13

Active member
Citizen
United Healthcare is the worst in an industry whose very existence is a product of a broken system.
Its CEO is responsible for numerous deaths even if you only count the claims they denied that other insurance companies would have approved.
His killer was someone whose claim had been denied; his motive was anger at things that United was indisputably guilty of.

Those are the facts that should be at the forefront.

Literally not a fact..... He was not ever insured by United Healthcare, and so far it doesn't look like any evidence of a denied claim has surfaced at all.
 

Ungnome

Grand Empress of the Empire of One Square Foot.
Citizen
The DMCA has been a blight on the internet since it's inception. The thing needs to be either struck down or HEAVILY revised. It is being used for WAY more than it was ever intended.
 


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