Where did BW Megatron's "Other" come from?

[Galvaplexia]

When I originally watched Beast Machines ep "Savage Noble", I presumed that Meg's beast mode parts that he excised from his person and dumped into a random body that gained sentience happened as some freaky side effect of the experiment.

BUT.

Rewatching Beast Wars, I realized that... that sentient beast mode existing within Megs has been there all along....

I don't remember which episode explicitly showed this, but there was one ep where he was brushing his T-rex head's teeth.... and it gazed up at him lovingly. There are several other instances in other eps where his T-rex head demonstrated some forms of autonomy, from looking around on its own volition, to reacting to Megs in some random ways as a pet would.

In another much later ep when he was in his TM2 body, there was a brief couple seconds in an ep where he was shouting to the heavens.... and his dragon head started moving on its own, tilting its head back and forth quizzically while gazing at the little surveillance globe the Pred base had.

At first when seeing these little details in BW, I assumed they were all just part of a random ongoing gag that followed Megs around throughout the show. I'm pretty sure the intention started out that way.

But then in BM, when he ripped out his beast mode and it came to life, it pretty much confirmed for me that Megatron had always had a second sentience somehow develop within him, possibly acquired somehow when he acquired a beast mode? Or maybe even well before that.

So the questions are:

- Where did this second mind come from?
- When did it develop? And how?
- And if it was always there, what could have caused such deep and profound hatred to develop for it from Megatron, that he felt he had to rip it out of himself, a thing that had been there with him from pretty much the beginning of everything, and even kill pretty much every single similar beastie-related thing like it on the entire planet? And.... for the thing itself to hate Megs in turn enough to still be alive after being forcibly excised, that it would go after its former master and attempt to kill him itself?

Anyway, musing on lack of sleep.

 

[Dake]

It's an interesting idea. There was always the slightly kooky side to BW Megs, with his talking to himself and his rubber ducky and whatnot. I wouldn't say there was actually a second "sentience" so much as a symbolic divorce from his Beast self because he decided that was the reason for all his problems and failures.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

This is actually a recurring thing in Beast Wars. Their beast modes are capable of taking over, and apparently want to. See Inferno, whose pod wasn't remotely damaged in its descent to Earth, and he still turned out like that. See the Maximals, who had a whole episode learning to let their two minds occupy the same space instead of walling off from each other. See TM2 Cheetor. This is absolutely a thing.

I don't know why this happens. My guess is it's partially deliberate. When Transformers pick up a disguise it is supposed to have a slight "mind" of its own. Normally it's just a few instincts on how to play the part so as not to stand out and defeat the whole purpose. Maybe this is why they awkwardly rename themselves in episode 1. Maybe that scene isn't so stupid. But this mechanism is really made for machines. Organic life still trips it up a bit. Beast modes want to do more than blend into the scenery like a parked car. They want to be alive.

...

We may owe Beast Machines the biggest apology.

 

[Sabrblade]

Blackarachnia did once ask Megatron why he talks to himself.

 

[Galvaplexia]

We may owe Beast Machines the biggest apology.

I’ve always like BM, and was one of the few standing up for it being ahead of its time back in the day when it first came out, and this fandom was having its “burn the witch” conipshit about it. Obviously, I was also ridiculed and belittled for it.

Now I get to say to all them and “I told you so.”

This is actually a recurring thing in Beast Wars. Their beast modes are capable of taking over, and apparently want to. See Inferno, whose pod wasn't remotely damaged in its descent to Earth, and he still turned out like that. See the Maximals, who had a whole episode learning to let their two minds occupy the same space instead of walling off from each other. See TM2 Cheetor. This is absolutely a thing.

I don't know why this happens. My guess is it's partially deliberate. When Transformers pick up a disguise it is supposed to have a slight "mind" of its own. Normally it's just a few instincts on how to play the part so as not to stand out and defeat the whole purpose. Maybe this is why they awkwardly rename themselves in episode 1. Maybe that scene isn't so stupid. But this mechanism is really made for machines. Organic life still trips it up a bit. Beast modes want to do more than blend into the scenery like a parked car. They want to be alive.
...

Good point! I do remember that! So yeah I guess all TFs with beast modes gain a second consciousness from that scanning or something.

Ooh try this theory out!

Maybe while he was experimenting with creating the transformation lock virus, there was a point it backfired on him and he locked himself in his beast mode. Much like with the Maximals forced to be in their beast modes for extended periods of time for that one ep, he probably succumbed to it like they did. Unlike them having a Tigatron to coax them lovingly through it to merge minds and be at peace and become more powerful as a result, he fought to claw his way back to the surface, tooth and nail.

Or maybe, he probably learned himself through watching the beast wars play out again from the shadows after surviving tumbling through time and space, and saw what Tigatron taught the Maximals and he did it himself through steely, machine-like meditation.

Problem is, this is Megatron, and he probably deliberately skipped the whole “harmony” bit and just focused on the fact that his will manifesting “steely, machine-like resolve” conquered, and so sought to quadruple down on that ad infinitum and into genocide.

So once he finally re-emerged, his already insane mind was driven more insane, probably accusing his beast mode of “daring to oppress him” or something like that (tyrants usually accuse those who want simple equity and to be heard with oppression, as the beast modes simply wanted to just be), so then angrily begins a beast mode genocide while attempting to self-mutilate and eradicate his beast mode too.

This would explain why every time he has an angry fit, he would convert to beast mode involuntarly, because though in his mind he think that happens just because he wavered in his machine-like resolve, in actuality, he never actually cured himself of the virus, nor did he achieve harmony with his beast mode to overcome its enslaving instinctual influence, and he doesn’t actually want to admit that failure to himself, and just tried harder with his “steely resolve” he thought the hubris of his sheer force of will being the tool to conquer all, until he “resolved” the entire planet. He simply considered the beast mode a challenger to his thrown and in his mind, and as a tyrant, any challenger, perceived or otherwise, to the thrown must be eradicated, and every related creature to it.

Beast Machine - Yup, it’s that deep.

 

[Lobjob]

When I originally watched Beast Machines ep "Savage Noble", I presumed that Meg's beast mode parts that he excised from his person and dumped into a random body that gained sentience happened as some freaky side effect of the experiment.

BUT.

Rewatching Beast Wars, I realized that... that sentient beast mode existing within Megs has been there all along....

I don't remember which episode explicitly showed this, but there was one ep where he was brushing his T-rex head's teeth.... and it gazed up at him lovingly. There are several other instances in other eps where his T-rex head demonstrated some forms of autonomy, from looking around on its own volition, to reacting to Megs in some random ways as a pet would.

In another much later ep when he was in his TM2 body, there was a brief couple seconds in an ep where he was shouting to the heavens.... and his dragon head started moving on its own, tilting its head back and forth quizzically while gazing at the little surveillance globe the Pred base had.

At first when seeing these little details in BW, I assumed they were all just part of a random ongoing gag that followed Megs around throughout the show. I'm pretty sure the intention started out that way.

But then in BM, when he ripped out his beast mode and it came to life, it pretty much confirmed for me that Megatron had always had a second sentience somehow develop within him, possibly acquired somehow when he acquired a beast mode? Or maybe even well before that.

So the questions are:

- Where did this second mind come from?
- When did it develop? And how?
- And if it was always there, what could have caused such deep and profound hatred to develop for it from Megatron, that he felt he had to rip it out of himself, a thing that had been there with him from pretty much the beginning of everything, and even kill pretty much every single similar beastie-related thing like it on the entire planet? And.... for the thing itself to hate Megs in turn enough to still be alive after being forcibly excised, that it would go after its former master and attempt to kill him itself?

Anyway, musing on lack of sleep.

While Beast Machines has its problems, this is an awesome take. Very cool.

 

[Maximal_Arachknight]

I remember someone wrote a story where Megatron merged his dragon form with the remains of Silverbolt's wolf form. After all, both Rhinox and Silverbolt had their sparks removed and we still don't know the effects of the transforming virus on a Fuzor.

 

[Salt-Man Z]

we still don't know the effects of the transforming virus on a Fuzor.

According to the toys, it produced the Mutants.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

I remember someone wrote a story where Megatron merged his dragon form with the remains of Silverbolt's wolf form.

This was widely suspected to be the origin of Savage/Noble. Otherwise there's no explanation for where the wolf part came from.

 

[Sabrblade]

Why no one ever asked Bob Skir about the wolf half is beyond me.

 

[Donocropolis]

Well, also keep in mind that inside all of us there are two wolves. When Megatron removed his, one of them went into Savage/Noble. The other one I believe moved to Ohio. Works at a paper mill, last I heard.