Ahsoka - streaming on Disney+

[Dake]

Ha... I think we've wound up mostly arguing the same side where the Scion is concerned. I agree with you there. If I'm not mistaken, the disagreement comes to whether Ahsoka's ship could get back, and there are two parts.

1. Were they able to track their progress while inside the Purgil, making it possible to retrace its steps?

2. Can it even make it?

For number 1, I think it's an easy thing to just say that yes, Huyang was able to retrace that particular hyper-lane, so they know the route back.

As for 2, that is the sticking point. I'm sure it could make it, perhaps with multiple jumps (not sure if we've seen the Star Wars hyperdrives have distance limits, or just max speeds)? Everyone could just get back after the Thrawn thing is sorted... or even more likely in my mind, a year or two later in the nick of time to save the galaxy from Thrawn.

Maybe it can't make it, but since the Purgil's all jumped away during the attack, maybe they'll return and haul everyone home (for some reason this is less appealing to me - it's the LOTR Eagles situation - easy but boring).

The last option that just occurred to me is maybe it doesn't matter. Skol has likely found a temple of sorts, and it might provide another doorway to the World between Worlds which will allow them to "walk" home by popping out somewhere in the known galaxy (perhaps at a convenient time to intercede in the Thrawn wars). The Temple in Lothal may have collapsed, but there are others... maybe even one on Dathomir which would be a handy spot to pop out.

 

[Axaday]

I think we've wound up mostly arguing the same side where the Scion is concerned. I agree with you there.

What I disagreed with about the Eye of Sion was Pred saying "The Ring ship wasn't new technology, it was just an upscaled version of the rings that the Jedi used in the prequels. It also used existing hyperdrives from Super Star Destroyers that were being decommissioned. Those were Class 2 Hyperdrives, so they aren't very fast in hyperspace. They just needed to be huge in order to be a ring for an Imperial Star Destroyer(Not sure if the Chimera is a class 1 or class 2 ISD). With the map, they simply obtained the directions to get to the other galaxy, so if the Jedi starship was able to plot a course inside the Purgil, then they can get home." to which you replied "Precisely".

For number 1, I think it's an easy thing to just say that yes, Huyang was able to retrace that particular hyper-lane, so they know the route back.

The writers can just say so if they want.

As for 2, that is the sticking point. I'm sure it could make it, perhaps with multiple jumps (not sure if we've seen the Star Wars hyperdrives have distance limits, or just max speeds)? Everyone could just get back after the Thrawn thing is sorted... or even more likely in my mind, a year or two later in the nick of time to save the galaxy from Thrawn.

If it would take years, can they bring enough food in that ship? Is it equipped to travel for years in hyperspace? I don't think this is what will happen anyway.

The last option that just occurred to me is maybe it doesn't matter. Skol has likely found a temple of sorts, and it might provide another doorway to the World between Worlds which will allow them to "walk" home by popping out somewhere in the known galaxy (perhaps at a convenient time to intercede in the Thrawn wars). The Temple in Lothal may have collapsed, but there are others... maybe even one on Dathomir which would be a handy spot to pop out.

Yes, as I said above and as I've seen pointed out elseqhere, Ezra got in the WBW by looking where the Father was pointing and when we last saw Baylan that was what he was doing. I think it is a pretty safe position that Baylan always wanted to get to Peridia because he knew it had some connection to Mortis or the WBW. In either case, he is hot on the trail.

 

[The Predaking]

Hyperspace distance limits have never been a thing in Star Wars. As long as they have the directions, it's like putting your Tesla on autopilot and having it make the turns. Certain Hyperdrives are faster than others. They have a class rating that designates their speed. Class 1 is fast, Class 2 is standard, class .5 is twice as fast as class 1. Whether this class speed is related to mass of the ship versus the output of the drive or just the output of the drive, I can't tell you. I can say that only this for certain.

1. The drives that they got for the Eye came out of a Super Star Destroyer. They were rated class 2.
2. If the Jedi starship has a viable route now that it rode with the Purgils, then it should be able to follow that route backwards with its own hyperdrive.
3. They made the eye specifically to retrieve the Chimera. It is a valuable military asset. Once repaired, it can go toe to toe with all but the strangest of the New Republic capital ships.


As for why not just repair the Chimera, well, they were there literally long enough to load the cargo, connect the ship, and get the heck out of there. Were they even there a day? I imagine repairing the ship would take much more time.

 

[Cybersnark]

Also note that we know nothing about how hyperdrives work or how they are classed. We know (or can intuit) that it's possible to alter a hyperdrive's class by modifying it (as Han and/or Chewie turned the Falcon's x1 hyperdrive into an x0.5), but we don't know if, for example, hyperspace travel is influenced by a ship's mass (so a larger, heavier ship would need a more powerful hyperdrive) or power output (so installing a more powerful reactor would get you higher speed even from the same hyperdrive).

Would a Star Destroyer's x2 hyperdrive still be classed as x2 if it was put into a (much lighter) medium freighter? Or would it suddenly become x1 or x0.25?

Maybe taking a bunch of SSD hyperdrives and networking them together (even assuming the drives weren't further modified/tuned) turns them into an x0.075 drive.

 

[G.B.Blackrock]

Ha... I think we've wound up mostly arguing the same side where the Scion is concerned. I agree with you there. If I'm not mistaken, the disagreement comes to whether Ahsoka's ship could get back, and there are two parts.

1. Were they able to track their progress while inside the Purgil, making it possible to retrace its steps?

2. Can it even make it?

For number 1, I think it's an easy thing to just say that yes, Huyang was able to retrace that particular hyper-lane, so they know the route back.

As for 2, that is the sticking point. I'm sure it could make it, perhaps with multiple jumps (not sure if we've seen the Star Wars hyperdrives have distance limits, or just max speeds)? Everyone could just get back after the Thrawn thing is sorted... or even more likely in my mind, a year or two later in the nick of time to save the galaxy from Thrawn.

Maybe it can't make it, but since the Purgil's all jumped away during the attack, maybe they'll return and haul everyone home (for some reason this is less appealing to me - it's the LOTR Eagles situation - easy but boring).

The last option that just occurred to me is maybe it doesn't matter. Skol has likely found a temple of sorts, and it might provide another doorway to the World between Worlds which will allow them to "walk" home by popping out somewhere in the known galaxy (perhaps at a convenient time to intercede in the Thrawn wars). The Temple in Lothal may have collapsed, but there are others... maybe even one on Dathomir which would be a handy spot to pop out.

FWIW, I think the World Between Worlds is the most likely trajectory. I actually expected that to be how Ahsoka was going to get to the galaxy farther, farther, away in the first place.

 

[G.B.Blackrock]

As for why not just repair the Chimera, well, they were there literally long enough to load the cargo, connect the ship, and get the heck out of there. Were they even there a day? I imagine repairing the ship would take much more time.

(I'm letting the rest pass for now. We're simply not going to agree on most of that)

It's worth keeping in mind that the only reason any "rush" was involved in getting the Chimera back to the Star Wars galaxy was because Ahsoka had arrived (and, arguably, because Sabine had found Ezra). There was never any plan to have Jedi hitchhikers cause trouble. Morgan Elspeth planned to go to where Thrawn was and retrieve him. If it took a few extra months (after it had already been a decade), I doubt that would have mattered all that much.

 

[The Predaking]

They Mothers are who called her to that galaxy, and they wanted her to retrieve the ISD with all the cargo in it, hence the ring ship. The Witches have force sight as well, and maybe they knew this was the best way forward compared to repairing the ISD. Or, more than likely, Maybe they knew that the ISD would need major overhauls that couldn't be done outside of a major shipyard?


As for the rest:

1. It's been established what the SSD uses for Hyperdrive. Whether or not that those drives improve or not with less mass is unknown. Does Hyperspace have something like aerodynamics? If so, the SSD is a lot more sleek than that giant ring ship. It's a lot of unknowns, but what I do know is that in the SSD, those engines are class 2.

2. Hyperspace uses lanes, like highways, between points so that they don't crash into things in space. Distance never has been a problem in Star Wars, heck they went straight from Tatooinie (Back water world used by gangsters) to Alderaan(major planet in the republic/empire) in a few hours. If they have the route in their Nav Computer, then it's simply a matter of going back at whatever speed they can. Now if you want to say that the Purgils and the Eye are super fast and it would take their class 1 or class 2 hyperdrive years to get back, then that is fine.

3. The ring is obviously designed to get the Chimera. Its an ISD, which holds flights of tie fighters, an impressive amount of capital ship weapons, and a garrison of troops. Leaving behind that, even in its damaged state is not a good idea. Thrawn will need an ISD to lead the war from, and you can bet that as soon as he drops the cargo off on Dathomir, they will be on to the next stage of the war and linking up with other remnant forces.

 

[Axaday]

Now if you want to say that the Purgils and the Eye are super fast and it would take their class 1 or class 2 hyperdrive years to get back, then that is fine.

Ahsoka actually asked if the Eye of Sion would be capable of making a jump to a neighboring galaxy because it was a question worth asking. And Huyang said theoretically he thinks so. He wasn't certain, but it was impressing him so much that he thinks it really could.

I mean...he specifically calls out that this wonder in front of him could jump an astonishing distance. There may have never before been anything to indicate that a ship could have a range, but there is now.

 

[The Predaking]

Ahsoka actually asked if the Eye of Sion would be capable of making a jump to a neighboring galaxy because it was a question worth asking. And Huyang said theoretically he thinks so. He wasn't certain, but it was impressing him so much that he thinks it really could.

I mean...he specifically calls out that this wonder in front of him could jump an astonishing distance. There may have never before been anything to indicate that a ship could have a range, but there is now.

I am sure that Ahsoka isn't a hyperspace expert and was just asking as she was worried that they were going to get Thrawn with it. Especially since both of them are very familiar with Hyperspace rings since the Jedi used them a lot prior to the end of the Clone Wars. The more important thing than the ship was the map that they were getting there, as that is what was they really needed to get to Thrawn.

 

[Cybersnark]

I am sure that Ahsoka isn't a hyperspace expert

OTOH, she was educated at the Jedi Temple, which, according to the Ahsoka novel, was full of "overacheivers" (to the point that it gave her a false idea of how capable and informed "normal" people are).

 

[Axaday]

I am sure that Ahsoka isn't a hyperspace expert and was just asking as she was worried that they were going to get Thrawn with it. Especially since both of them are very familiar with Hyperspace rings since the Jedi used them a lot prior to the end of the Clone Wars. The more important thing than the ship was the map that they were getting there, as that is what was they really needed to get to Thrawn.

I don't know if I'm just supposed to be done with this or what. Are you talking about Ahsoka or Huyang? Huyang is analyzing the Eye of Sion. Huyang fixes hyperdrives. Huyang knows the Jedi Archives. Huyang is thousands of years old and has seen a thing or two in that time. Huyang says a ship of that power and configuration could make a jump of astonishing speed and distance. Huyang believes that it might be possible for it even to reach a neighboring galaxy and has seen references to such a thing in the Jedi Archives. Whether because Hyperdrive classes are just fan stuff or because these have been altered or something is special about the configuration, Huyang is throwing away the idea that the speed of a Hyperdrive is intrinsic to its manufacture. I don't know if canon has ever addressed how far a ship can jump, but in canon Huyang just said that it is not unlimited, but that a ship like the one he is looking at would have an astonishing range. That range that is already named astonishing, he BELIEVES might even include the distance to a neighboring galaxy, meaning it could be astonishing and still be short of that.

The show was clear. Ahsoka knows she is stranded unless she can find a purgil or the World Between Worlds. If all she needed to do was fix her ship, she would be busily working on it to get back in the game. But she knows it is out of her hands and other people will have to work on that until a solution to her problem presents itself.

 

[Axaday]

Did Sabine experience "An Awakening"? Can a certain emotional state or pressing need cause someone who always had latent Force ability to manifest? Or can it happen to anyone?

 

[G.B.Blackrock]

Did Sabine experience "An Awakening"? Can a certain emotional state or pressing need cause someone who always had latent Force ability to manifest? Or can it happen to anyone?

I imagine that's still an open question, but Ahsoka herself justified taking on Sabine as an apprentice with language that suggests (at least to me) that it could indeed happen to anyone. That said, while the emotional state and/or pressing need shouldn't be discounted, neither should the actual training that Sabine has been getting.

 

[The Predaking]

I don't know if I'm just supposed to be done with this or what. Are you talking about Ahsoka or Huyang? Huyang is analyzing the Eye of Sion. Huyang fixes hyperdrives. Huyang knows the Jedi Archives. Huyang is thousands of years old and has seen a thing or two in that time. Huyang says a ship of that power and configuration could make a jump of astonishing speed and distance. Huyang believes that it might be possible for it even to reach a neighboring galaxy and has seen references to such a thing in the Jedi Archives. Whether because Hyperdrive classes are just fan stuff or because these have been altered or something is special about the configuration, Huyang is throwing out the idea that the speed of a Hyperdrive is intrinsic to its manufacture. I don't know if canon has ever addressed how far a ship can jump, but in canon Huyang just said that it is not unlimited, but that a ship like the one he is looking at would have an astonishing range. That range that is already named astonishing, he BELIEVES might even include the distance to a neighboring galaxy, meaning it could be astonishing and still be short of that.

The show was clear. Ahsoka knows she is stranded unless she can find a purgil or the World Between Worlds. If all she needed to do was fix her ship, she would be busily working on it to get back in the game. But she knows it is out of her hands and other people will have to work on that until a solution to her problem presents itself.

I really don't mean to make you upset over this, but I was talking about Ahsoka, and she asked Huyang, who would absolutely know about it, and he said that he knew about it from the Jedi archives, probably referring to Outbound Flight or something similar since he is 25 thousand years old at this point.

Getting to the other galaxy doesn't require a massive hyperspace engine though, as there are no borders or boundaries to push through. I will grant you that it's probably a vast distance between their destination, but that doesn't mean it's not possible with the course. Heck, in Outbound Flight, 6 dreadnoughts connected to a massive pod easily managed to get the ship to the Chiss territory outside the galaxy where it was intercepted. Those Dreadnoughts, were using either Class 2 or Class 4 Hyperdrives, depending on the version of the ship that they had. Probably Class 2 considering the mission, which would be the same class that the ones that the Eye uses. Also, Hyperdrive classes are not a fan fiction thing. In the very first film Han says, "She make point five" he is referring to the hyperdrive class which is four times faster than the ISDs chasing them.

It has been long established that getting somewhere in Star Wars is simply a matter of having a course to get there with a working hyperdrive. The fact that they don't just repair the jedi ship and leave is probably due to them not having the ability to plot that course while riding in the Purgil more than the vast distance between the galaxies. I do agree that they are stranded there though, and will have to deal with whatever Shin and Skoll will be getting up to next season.

 

[Axaday]

Also, Hyperdrive classes are not a fan fiction thing. In the very first film Han says, "She make point five" he is referring to the hyperdrive class which is four times faster than the ISDs chasing them.

This is backwards. He says "She can make point five past lightspeed" and it was sci-fi mushmouth. Someone came later in a book somewhere and said, "Hey we can smooth that out."

It has been long established that getting somewhere in Star Wars is simply a matter of having a course to get there with a working hyperdrive.

It has been short established that the distance you can jump depends on how much power your setup has.

 

[Stepwise]

Just finished this (series? season?) today.

Question about lightsabers - these used to seem like unbeatable-magic-Jedi-superweapons, but are they less powerful weapons in more recent stories than they used to be?

I've watched all the movies, but I haven't read all the books or watched all the other shows, so it's likely that I've missed something somewhere.

 

[Axaday]

What limitations have you detected on the lightsabers?

 

[Dake]

They're still pretty unbeatable, but Beskar (from the Mandalorian) is saber-resistant (by design) if that's what you mean. If you're talking about Sabine's injury, the prevailing explanation is that she was in a position to get medical attention quickly combined with maybe a "lucky" shot that missed the important bits.

 

[Cybersnark]

Lightsaber-resistant materials (and lightsabers cauterizing wounds) are both things from the EU, though beskar is relatively new (in the EU there was something called "cortosis" that did the same thing, with beskar just being really durable; modern stuff has basically just merged them).

 

[Tuxedo Prime]

Lightsaber-resistant materials (and lightsabers cauterizing wounds) are both things from the EU, though beskar is relatively new (in the EU there was something called "cortosis" that did the same thing, with beskar just being really durable; modern stuff has basically just merged them).

Cortosis was a bit more "balanced" (to use a gaming term), as it disrupted (rather than outright blocked) lightsaber blades but pretty much fell apart under sustained blaster fire -- making it of comparatively little use in the post-Clone-Wars era. Beskar was quite rare in modern times, although the bombardment of Mandalore with microsingularties by the Yuuzhan Vong late in their war against the galaxy unearthed some large deposits of the metal....