The Taxonomy of Toy-Based Fiction, or a further look at Continuity Families

[LordGigaIce]

For what "we" call "pieces of media", the names they are released under are mostly sufficient (only "mostly" and not entirely because of the fact that the same titles get used more than once).

But no character (except maybe fourth-wall-breaking ones) would or should say "the universe of the Cyberverse cartoon".

No, but at the same time how often does this come up in fiction?
FP's own TransTech stuff was pretty niche and most mainstream Transformers stories tend to stay clear of universe hopping.

Hasbro clearly sees value in some FP ideas- Shattered Glass for one- and given that the gimmick of that line was "mirror universe" it might have been a good opportunity to talk about universal streams and clusters but they didn't.
Then Hasbro did Legacy- all about characters from across the multiverse converging- an even better excuse to pull it out. And they didn't.
Hell, you know what they call the home universes of the characters on Legacy packaging? The normal terms. "G1 Universe," "Armada Universe," "Animated Universe," etc...

This was the perfect time for Hasbro to resurrect the clusters and streams and they didn't because they probably don't see the value in complicating the matter with pseudo Latin techno babble.

I don't know what characters would refer to their universes or others' universes in the fiction sans the cluster/stream system. I really don't, but I also don't think it matters nearly enough to Weekend at Bernie's the system past its death date either.

 

[Sabrblade]

Cyberverse season 3-4 was really the first time a main TF cartoon actually tried to really dabble in multiversal fun, with the Megatron X and Tarn story.

According to this Q&A with writer Mae Catt, she "would’ve liked to have the other Transformers series show up (TFP, TFA, G1, Shattered Glass)", but they didn't "have those assets or budget."

 

[lastmaximal]

To be fair, NovaSaber's point seems to be that the stream system was useful in-universe (as opposed to needing to be trotted out every time there's multiversal shenanigans) and I agree.

It's just that there is no longer (currently) a story that needs that system. Legacy packaging isn't in-story, it's for us. Sadly, the line largely lacking fiction means there's essentially no in-universe story usage of any terms, stream oriented or otherwise.

(Didn't the Legends comics also do a ton of universe hopping? What terms did they use?)

 

[NovaSaber]

I'm pretty sure Legends used the same names as Cloud.

The Cloud system certainly makes for less...ugly names than the Transtech one.

 

[LordGigaIce]

To be fair, NovaSaber's point seems to be that the stream system was useful in-universe (as opposed to needing to be trotted out every time there's multiversal shenanigans) and I agree.

I understood their point, I just don't see it as a particularly pressing concern. Even when media that does touch on multiversal shenanigans crops up. Sabrblade mentioned Cyberverse being the first mainline show to actually dip its toes in the pool of the multiverse, which I think is interesting because it's the first major continuity family the cluster/stream system is incapable of naming.

I just don't see the system fit for use, at all. Fans used it and interpreted it in a way both the IRL creators and the in-universe users didn't intend, the terms are clunky and awkward to use in place of more well-known terms, and the people who maintained it no longer have the licence to write official Transformers fiction so it can't be updated to account for new continuities.

I'm sorry some people got really into it and attached to it in the past, I truly, truly am. It sucks when something you invest in just dies because the power that be don't care... I get it.

But it doesn't change anything.

It's just that there is no longer (currently) a story that needs that system. Legacy packaging isn't in-story, it's for us. Sadly, the line largely lacking fiction means there's essentially no in-universe story usage of any terms, stream oriented or otherwise.

Legacy was planned to have a show at one point, and I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if it had happened they wouldn't have used the cluster/stream system to refer to each universe.

Honestly, I don't know if the characters need in-universe terms to refer to individual universes. Most long running sci fi franchises have a few outings dealing with multiverses, and they usually get by pretty well without a dense and unwieldy classification system.

 

[Sabrblade]

(Didn't the Legends comics also do a ton of universe hopping? What terms did they use?)

G1世界 (Jīwan Sekai, "G1 World")

ジェンズ世界 (Rejenzu Sekai, "Legends World")

トランスフォーマーアニメイテッドの世界 (Toransufōmā animeiteddo no sekai, "World of Transformers Animated")

And so on.

Though, not every "World" that crossed over with Legends got named. And the Legends World was a world where the Transformers brand existed as a toy and media property that the inhabitants were fans of. So they, in-universe, knew of the out-of-universe names of each series ("Beast Wars", "Car Robots", "Legends of the Microns", "Animated", "Adventure", etc.).

 

[LordGigaIce]

G1世界 (Jīwan Sekai, "G1 World")

ジェンズ世界 (Rejenzu Sekai, "Legends World")

トランスフォーマーアニメイテッドの世界 (Toransufōmā animeiteddo no sekai, "World of Transformers Animated")

And so on.

 

[Sabrblade]

But again, Legends was able to be so simple about it because it took place in a world where the characters had diagetic access to information that was non-diagetic in all the other worlds.

 

[Tuxedo Prime]

But again, Legends was able to be so simple about it because it took place in a world where the characters had diagetic access to information that was non-diagetic in all the other worlds.

Well, that's a tricky thing to play with....

 

[Sabrblade]

Well, that's a tricky thing to play with....

I recognize you're pointing out the Deadpool expy-ness, but due to differences in writers, SG Drift's personality ended up shifting away from a Deadpool homage to instead make him act more like an outlandish Samurai stereotype as if portrayed by a stereotypical weaboo.

 

[Destron D-69]

so he's X-men Origins: Wolverine's Deadpool... not the new one XD

 

[Shadewing]

I recognize you're pointing out the Deadpool expy-ness, but due to differences in writers, SG Drift's personality ended up shifting away from a Deadpool homage to instead make him act more like an outlandish Samurai stereotype as if portrayed by a stereotypical weaboo.

Actually, i believe that was intentional; since its mirroring IDW Drift, who was moody serious warrior then became a more jovial character under a different writer. Unless that is what you mean, and I am mis reading due to it being 3 am.

 

[Tuxedo Prime]

Actually, i believe that was intentional; since its mirroring IDW Drift, who was moody serious warrior then became a more jovial character under a different writer. Unless that is what you mean, and I am mis reading due to it being 3 am.

No, SG Drift's own article suggests the same thing, though it's unclear if that trend was intentional or coincidental. Earlier iterations of TFWiki certainly felt that "outlandish samurai stereotype as portrayed by a stereotypical weaboo" matched how G1 Drift was originally written by Shane McCarthy, and weren't afraid to write such in the commentary.

Makes we wish that Pic and Perc had been able to give us a WWFF Drift....

 

[LordGigaIce]

No, SG Drift's own article suggests the same thing, though it's unclear if that trend was intentional or coincidental. Earlier iterations of TFWiki certainly felt that "outlandish samurai stereotype as portrayed by a stereotypical weaboo" matched how G1 Drift was originally written by Shane McCarthy, and weren't afraid to write such in the commentary.

That stuff only got softened on the Wiki after James Roberts did a lot of work to save Drift's character in MtMtE/LL.
Before that Drift absolutely was the super awesome OC you (a general you) came up with in your weeb phase.

So SG Drift starting off as something else but evolving into doing that intentionally is actually poetic and rather beautiful

 

[lastmaximal]

Honestly, thanks to the last several years of material (that seems incredibly dense!) for it, I now really want the Legends manga and such to get a show. (Is there a full collection of everything translated? I remember seeing them in batches and stuff)

Like, give us a Netflix series (an actual anime, not a WFC *anime* ) of the main story, and YouTube webisodes (I know they're both online) of the sillier, shorter character bits.

It's a sprawling lorefest that's enjoyable for much the same reason the Almanacs were, with, well, different baggage I guess. But the fondness for the source material and the playful inventiveness radiates from the story material, and for all the bold audacity that comes to mind with Takara's arc welding it's still fairly impressive how they stitch and weave it all.

It'd be nice to see it told at length rather than all crammed into a few pages.

 

[LordGigaIce]

Honestly, thanks to the last several years of material (that seems incredibly dense!) for it, I now really want the Legends manga and such to get a show. (Is there a full collection of everything translated? I remember seeing them in batches and stuff)

Like, give us a Netflix series (an actual anime, not a WFC *anime*) of the main story, and YouTube webisodes (I know they're both online) of the sillier, shorter character bits.

It's a sprawling lorefest that's enjoyable for much the same reason the Almanacs were, with, well, different baggage I guess. But the fondness for the source material and the playful inventiveness radiates from the story material, and for all the bold audacity that comes to mind with Takara's arc welding it's still fairly impressive how they stitch and weave it all.

It'd be nice to see it told at length rather than all crammed into a few pages.

The Legends manga is soooo good between the expressive character work and the gags and DEEEEEEP lore pulls that I'd be all in on an adaptation... assuming they could work out or fix some of less than ideal depictions of female characters. That's one area where you just go "Japan gonna Japan"

Getting away from the skeevy stuff, I do like how occasionally that comic will grab some old figure or accessory no one's thought about in years and suddenly it's super important and lore relevant.

 

[Sabrblade]

(Is there a full collection of everything translated? I remember seeing them in batches and stuff)

The wiki has a MEGA archive of every chapter in its original Japanese form, but only a small handful of chapters have actually been translated in English (and some by a translator who made some rather questionable translation choices). The wiki's archive has all of those few, too.

What you might be remembering having seen translated in full was the Unite Warriors manga and the Selects manga.