Transformers Hall of Fame 2024 voting now open - until Sept 9
- Thread starter lastmaximal
- Start date
Well that's annoying. There already IS a Prima in the set. No hogging the spots, Prima!
No wonder Megatronus was pissed.
"IT'S ALL PRIMA'S FAULT, HE'S JEALOUS!"
Ok that's my bad because the image in my head of the Last Autobot is that first pic! I must have gotten the Last Autobot and Marvel Prima mixed up....No? They didn't. It's colored (and sculpted) based on Marvel Prima.
The Ultimate Warrior? Oh dear.
Fitting that he transforms into that then.
Huh. As I was reading the last page and catching up here, I began to think to myself:
"You know what? I'd actually like a series about the Thirteen."
Granted, I was thinking more of a TV/cartoon thing, but still. It would have a tight cast, and be able to flesh out their characters more -- those who need it, anyway.
And to be clear, when I say "about the Thirteen," I mean back in their ancient Cybertronian, pre-Transformers-as-a-race days. No Optimus, no Megatron, no Autobots, no Decepticons. Just something from way back when, and its own thing that hits whatever beats might be deemed necessary (i.e. Fallen's betrayal), but isn't tied to any one continuity. Just its own thing.
Of course, these days, there would probably be some insistence of Optimus and Bumblebee being there. If that's the case, bookend the episodes like in G1 Season 5 with Optimus telling Bumblebee stories of the Thirteen or something. Boom, done.
Bumblebee: Wow, how'd you know all that stuff Optimus?
Optimus: Well old friend, I am The Arisen.
Bumblebee gets up to leave
Optimus: Where are you going?
Bumblebee: If you're not going to take this seriously then neither am I.
You know, going by the original movie saying that Hot Rod was the one destined to bear the Matrix, along with the modern lore of the Matrix's true bearer being the second coming of the Thirteenth Prime, that would kind of make Rodimus the Arisen instead of Optimus.
Heh, but no modern fiction has actually ever played around with this because no one wants to think of anyone but Optimus as the true bearer of the Matrix.
Heh, but no modern fiction has actually ever played around with this because no one wants to think of anyone but Optimus as the true bearer of the Matrix.
I mean, it's not like Optimus could have been the Arisen at the moment. He was a-dead.
What I mean is, modern fiction doesn't want to explore the possibility that anyone other than Optimus himself is the rightful bearer of the Matrix, because they want Optimus to be the Chosen One instead of Rodimus.
I would. I'd write Hot Rod as the chosen one, and Optimus as nobody. Not necessarily the right bot at the right time, just the bot who was there at the time. He likes to believe it could have been anyone. Even if no one else thinks so.
That's what makes him Optimus Prime. Not some secret grand heritage.
I hated Aligned's canon that Optimus specifically was the Thirteen.
I much preferred IDW2's take that every Prime since the Thirteen's departure/disappearance has been a steward, holding the Matrix until "The Arisen" returns.
It even had IRL precedent with Olaf II declared the eternal King of Norway with every King since being a representative of that eternal kingship.
It also lets you play around with the expectations. Is Optimus The Arisen? Or merely the latest steward of the Matrix? You could say maybe, even hint at it. Or you could have to turn out to be Rodimus after all. Which would work in the wider history of the brand because IIRC Rodimus never passes on the Matrix. There are other Autobot leaders after him in the Japanese continuity but none of them are Primes or carry the Matrix. And in IDW's Last Bot Standing Rodimus did become Rodimus Prime but seems to be the last one, with most other Cybertronians of its far off setting not even remembering the title.
So swinging it to "Rodimus was The Arisen all along, and the Prime lineage ends with him" works well with what's been established.
Thing they'll never do: Repaint Legacy Vector Prime as the Last Autobot
Hear, hear! It robbed any and all meaning of him inheriting the Matrix because of what made him special as a person as Orion Pax, and instead made it so that he was born special. It took away any and all humble beginnings he had in the Exodus novel and ruined the notion of "Anyone can be a hero" that he exemplified with his "I'm just a data clerk!" attitude, replacing all that with the idea that only he and he alone could bear the Matrix as its true owner.
"Because he's Optimus Prime!" (how I loathe that mentality; same goes for "Because he's Megatron!", "Because he's Batman!", etc.)
Presumably, he gives it back to Optimus at some point after the latter is reborn as Star Convoy, since Optimus has it back in his possession by the time of the G-2 fiction.
True, but something interesting that happened near the end of the Legends manga was all of them (Rodimus, Fort Max, Grand Max, God Ginrai, Victory Saber, and Dai Atlas) all receiving their own individual Energon Matrices separate from the Matrix of Leadership (Rodimus's even evolved him into his POTP Leader class toy design):
Eat that, Rodimus haters!
The way I see it, the whole concept of the Arisen should be completely separate from a list of who the original Thirteen were.
It makes no sense that we would have 12 that we know names (or at least titles) for and some things they did in the ancient era, and then one more who we know absolutely nothing about except that a modern Transformer is his reincarnation.
If anything the one who gets reincarnated should be someone we know more about than the ones who died and stayed dead.
It makes no sense that we would have 12 that we know names (or at least titles) for and some things they did in the ancient era, and then one more who we know absolutely nothing about except that a modern Transformer is his reincarnation.
If anything the one who gets reincarnated should be someone we know more about than the ones who died and stayed dead.
Agreed. In my own head, Optimus works best as the guy who happens to become Prime in the midst of a huge crisis. He's just a data clerk (or miner, or dock worker, or cop, or extreme skateboarding instructor, take your pick of preferred pre-War Orion Pax professions) who answered the call to action. He's worthy of the Matrix not because of destiny but because of who he was, and the dire position he found himself in.
I really like Skybound's Optimus because he really does feel like a good natured guy trying to do the best in a bad situation.
Rodimus, meanwhile, works as the second coming, avatar, whatever, of The Arisen. His ascension vanquishes his religion's Satan figure after all.
This could be seen as the beginning of the "Energon Matrices" we see in the Japanese Beast Wars series and Car Robots. Where individual leaders of a certain rank all seem to have their own Matrix separate from the Capital T The Capital M Matrix.
They actually got started earlier in the United EX fiction, which was set contemporaneously to Operation Combination. The Japanese text in the image I posted mentions that their Energon Matrices were created jointly between the Autobots and humans, which is a callback to United EX in which Professor Chip Chase was involved in the creation of the first Energon Matrices.
Personally, I rather Optimus be Optimus prime, just a normal bot, while Rodimus, is the one chosen by fate to lead the Autobots into the new era, where much of the War between the Autobots and Decepticons is over and Rodimus has to navigate the battlefields of galatic politics and the Decepticons are just Renegades or space pirates, broken and without a single leader to truly unite them as one faction, Optimus was chosen to fight the majorty of the war and carried the Matrix until one worthy enough to open it and light the darkest hour appeared and acomplish that task, so that the old era, ended when Optimus & Megatron had their fateful showdown and fought to the bitter end and the new era begins with Rodimus prime accending to leadership and striking down the embodiment of Darkness, Unicron!
I'm as big a Rodimus booster as you'll ever see, and sure I'd love to see him get his due. But I don't think i want him to be the Arisen because i don't want an Arisen character.
Some vague prophecy about an Autobot who will light the darkest hour sure, because that can be repurposed to be a reason to hope -- "we'll always have someone to stand up during whatever the darkest hour is at the time". And Rodimus having to deal with being thrust into the role, about how the chosen one never gets to choose, and talking to Optimus about it -- and both relating to having to be The Guy because their world needed one -- would make for some sweet character development. But a specific role like this, and one that isn't just left to vague myth?
Having that be the thirteenth Prime is lazy writing. You couldn't think of a thirteenth character archetype? There's nothing to this character. In the stories of the Primes they're just there because they have to be vaguely described at best, and their value isn't in being around then, it's in possibly being around at some point in the future. It's "break glass in case of another lack of ideas" except the case also contains a lack of ideas. It's mystery for the sake of it that's doomed to disappoint at two points in the timeline.
And all that to set up that Optimus is the Arisen just robs the Optimus character of every bit of significance of his journey from "guy who stepped up because someone was needed" to "struggling with the problematic legacy he inherited" to "jumping off roofs/rooves, what a hero", because he's now the ultimate nepo baby. And the same would be true for Hot Rod (as unevenly written as he was in IDW) or anyone they'd put there. The stakes and sacrifices and story are all pointless if their spot was reserved from the literal dawn of time.
Some vague prophecy about an Autobot who will light the darkest hour sure, because that can be repurposed to be a reason to hope -- "we'll always have someone to stand up during whatever the darkest hour is at the time". And Rodimus having to deal with being thrust into the role, about how the chosen one never gets to choose, and talking to Optimus about it -- and both relating to having to be The Guy because their world needed one -- would make for some sweet character development. But a specific role like this, and one that isn't just left to vague myth?
Having that be the thirteenth Prime is lazy writing. You couldn't think of a thirteenth character archetype? There's nothing to this character. In the stories of the Primes they're just there because they have to be vaguely described at best, and their value isn't in being around then, it's in possibly being around at some point in the future. It's "break glass in case of another lack of ideas" except the case also contains a lack of ideas. It's mystery for the sake of it that's doomed to disappoint at two points in the timeline.
And all that to set up that Optimus is the Arisen just robs the Optimus character of every bit of significance of his journey from "guy who stepped up because someone was needed" to "struggling with the problematic legacy he inherited" to "jumping off roofs/rooves, what a hero", because he's now the ultimate nepo baby. And the same would be true for Hot Rod (as unevenly written as he was in IDW) or anyone they'd put there. The stakes and sacrifices and story are all pointless if their spot was reserved from the literal dawn of time.