Clearly Submaruader needs to be Voyager class, so that they're all evenly out of scale with each other
Clearly Submaruader needs to be Voyager class, so that they're all evenly out of scale with each other
In general, I'm perfectly happy with the current approach to pretenders, with the caveat that I want them to be handled with the same care in terms of scale as the rest of the line. As far as I can remember seeing in any fiction I can think of, the main '88 pretenders were all around the same size, just like the toys. Having Skullgrin tower over Bomb-Burst and Iguanus is very disappointing. I can kinda get Bludgeon, and possibly the other '89 pretenders, being a bit bigger just due to their prominence (Bludgeon, mainly), but otherwise I'd like to see them at least comparable, especially in groupings that commonly appear together. Deluxe is the sweet spot for me personally.
I guess I feel that Monstructor is a little bit different than most other pretenders. Most of them have a humanoid shell that's more memorable than their humanoid robot mode. The only exceptions I can think of are the pretender beasts (whose shells are the same animals as the robots' alt modes) and the pretender vehicles (whose shells are basically vehicles to ride around in). The beasts' shells are largely redundant, the vehicles' are basically accessories or could work as alt modes, and the rest probably work best the way they've been doing it, with the shells essentially becoming the robot mode.
The pretender monsters don't really fit any of those groupings. Their shells aren't humanoid, so really don't work as replacements for their robot modes. And while their alt modes and shells are all monsters, they aren't common for each bot like the beasts, and they're mostly very different color schemes. I think it would be hard to integrate their shells into the robots as successfully as most other modern pretenders have accomplished. Not impossible, but for example, I would prefer Monstructor keep his gold chest, rather then turn red due to using Slog's shell for his alt mode. I, for one, also found both their shells and alt modes fun and memorable. I could still be fully satisfied without the shells, but IF they were to be done as a HasLab due to being deemed infeasible as mainline releases, they're a case where I could see the shells adding to the overall package.
I guess I feel that Monstructor is a little bit different than most other pretenders. Most of them have a humanoid shell that's more memorable than their humanoid robot mode. The only exceptions I can think of are the pretender beasts (whose shells are the same animals as the robots' alt modes) and the pretender vehicles (whose shells are basically vehicles to ride around in). The beasts' shells are largely redundant, the vehicles' are basically accessories or could work as alt modes, and the rest probably work best the way they've been doing it, with the shells essentially becoming the robot mode.
The pretender monsters don't really fit any of those groupings. Their shells aren't humanoid, so really don't work as replacements for their robot modes. And while their alt modes and shells are all monsters, they aren't common for each bot like the beasts, and they're mostly very different color schemes. I think it would be hard to integrate their shells into the robots as successfully as most other modern pretenders have accomplished. Not impossible, but for example, I would prefer Monstructor keep his gold chest, rather then turn red due to using Slog's shell for his alt mode. I, for one, also found both their shells and alt modes fun and memorable. I could still be fully satisfied without the shells, but IF they were to be done as a HasLab due to being deemed infeasible as mainline releases, they're a case where I could see the shells adding to the overall package.
I feel it should be noted that both Skullgrin and Bomb-Burst were late-addition replacements for what were originally going to be the modular gimmick toys of the Legacy Year 1 line, the Energon Monsters. Notice how Legacy Year 1 is the only line from Siege to now to not have its own modular gimmick toys:
- Siege: Weaponizers
- Earthrise: Modulators (plus Fasttrack being a Weaponizer-styled figure)
- Kingdom: Fossilizers (plus Slammer being a Weaponizer-styled figure)
- Legacy Year 1: N/A
- Legacy Evolution: Junkions
- Legacy United: Armorizers
It's the people crying conspiracy when Velocitron Scourge was released.
"They made him the wrong colours on purpose to sell him again!"
No, they didn't paint the translucent pink bits on the robot mode silver because the silver paint budget was used up by the trailer. That's all.
Fans tend to build elaborate mind palace scenarios to justify certain things.
"They aren't a fan of this thing, here's my psychological evaluation of this fan site interview."
No man, it's not that deep. It's just budgetary.
No, I think the issue is the design team likely doesn't know what things will look like in packaging. If they think Scourge is being sold in the at the time typical leader class packaging, in Robot mode; with a window... Well... He's gonna look almost exactly like Legacy Optimus Prime.
Here is a custom I found next to Legacy Prime, Imagine these two showing up on the shelf at the same time, in open boxes like Kingdom got:
Two mostly grey and black trucks of the same exact mold. Making Nemesis Scourge, means that if we assume that at the time of design they have no idea that the leader class boxes were going to be changed to closed boxes, makes sense to make Scourge look more visable distinct and not like literally the same toy sold to you twice.
At the time the typical Leader class packaging also had no window. Legacy was the first to have closed boxes for Leaders. The Velocitron stuff showed up partway through Legacy (so they were likely aware of what the main line packaging would be), with windowless Leaders as well.
It was entirely speculation on my part but I thought Core Pretenders were a possible opportunity for making the whole package in parts, because at the same time, 'Energon Monster' popped up in the solicitations and I and others thought there might be a change for a larger non-transforming shell in the Deluxe range that could be advertised to fit or eat smaller figures, but older fans would immediately repurpose. But then that apparently evolved into Modulators/Weaponizers/Fossilizers, and the trend of 'Merge the shell with the robot mode' that Thunderwing and Bludgeon largely established kicked off fully.
I still hold out hope for a set of mini-shells for the DinoForce one way or another, mainly because I loved the Pretender Beasts and having that concept extended into Cyborg dinos with robot dino combiners inside would be great. I do think it was a good move to make the shells the default alt modes for that team, their original toys outside the shells didn't look like much.
I still hold out hope for a set of mini-shells for the DinoForce one way or another, mainly because I loved the Pretender Beasts and having that concept extended into Cyborg dinos with robot dino combiners inside would be great. I do think it was a good move to make the shells the default alt modes for that team, their original toys outside the shells didn't look like much.
There's no source on it, but the TF Wiki entry for Legacy Scourge claims that Mark Maher had to allocate the paint budget to the trailer, meaning they couldn't paint the translucent pink parts of his shoulders.No, I think the issue is the design team likely doesn't know what things will look like in packaging. If they think Scourge is being sold in the at the time typical leader class packaging, in Robot mode; with a window... Well... He's gonna look almost exactly like Legacy Optimus Prime.
Here is a custom I found next to Legacy Prime, Imagine these two showing up on the shelf at the same time, in open boxes like Kingdom got:
Two mostly grey and black trucks of the same exact mold. Making Nemesis Scourge, means that if we assume that at the time of design they have no idea that the leader class boxes were going to be changed to closed boxes, makes sense to make Scourge look more visable distinct and not like literally the same toy sold to you twice.
Scourge (RID) - Transformers Wiki
There is a source on Sam Smith claiming that the chest is primarily black instead of grey to better match the truck mode.
Sam Smith - Hasbro Design ⚓️ on Instagram: "SPEEDIA 500 VELOCITRON RID SCOURGE - Robot Mode Thrilled to finally be able to share the RID 2000 Universe Scourge that I have the opportunity to redeco late last year. This figure was a blast to work on,
733 likes, 109 comments - king_samlock on June 23, 2022: "SPEEDIA 500 VELOCITRON RID SCOURGE - Robot Mode Thrilled to finally be able to share the RID 2000 Universe Scourge that I have the opportunity to redeco late last year. This figure was a blast to work on, and I had so much fun helping...
www.instagram.com
So it appears as if Scourge's deco choices in Legacy were down to artistic licence and budgets.
And that's fine. I just wanted to use it as a case to illustrate where fans can work themselves into thinking a conspiracy exists were there is none.
I'd make the Pretender shells the next modular gimmick set. Make them Deluxe or Voyager sized, able to form the shell and an alt mode on their own, and combine with another figure as armor. Maybe make the inner robots as separate Core-sized generics, so you could buy one or the other and get a complete figure, or buy both and get the complete set. Of course, with Core-class going away, that's not so feasible anymore....
That sounded agreeable, even familiar, so I looked around and... huh. Found this post of mine in another, older thread. Except with Micros and not Core (so even smaller), and reliant on R.E.D. which also seems done.
I had forgotten about the Energon Monster switcheroo, and having the open slot in Deluxe does somewhat explain the why of it, but I will still maintain that filling that slot with Skullgrin was a misstep. Having the Pretenders planned out at the Core size should have happened during the design phase of Iguanus, and I feel like this design team is usually more savvy than that.
But, as has already been mentioned, budgetary concerns tend to be the overriding concern in this business, and we as fans on the outside will never be fully in the know about what kind of compromises and cuts have to be made.
So, offchance that anyone else got Cannonball or some other Star Raider stuff cancelled, go give Walmart and Pulse a check, Cannonball's back up on both, and a Bluesky mutual mentioned being able to grab Filch on Pulse earlier.
The G1 Unicron toy prototype design they did was very popular. You'd think they'd take the hint that the money's in more out there ideas.
We don't have day to day stuff at our fingertips, no, but Hasbro's teams do share stuff with us.
I remember when Hasbro, way back in the day, explained that the reason for the Energon combiners only having two limb moulds each was budgetary. The budget would allow for either two combiners with four limb moulds each or three combiners with two limb moulds each. They made the choice to go with the latter, thinking fans and kids alike would appreciate more characters.
That was the first time I really re-evaluated how I thought about this stuff. It's easy to fall into the trap as a fan (especially in one's younger years) of assuming Hasbro's doing stuff for some malicious reason. But when it comes down to it... the design teams are people passionate about their work and the brand, and they want to do cool stuff. Sometimes the money is what it is, and they have to make decisions about what kinds of cool stuff they have to forgo to do other cool stuff.
Like... I don't think anyone on the design team is currently sitting in their offices in Rhode Island going "stupid Pretenders. Screw those nerds! They'll take a hovercraft with a shark fin on it as Finback and like it!"
No. It's that Pretenders are a REALLY difficult concept to pull off given the economics of modern toy engineering. You're looking at two separate toys, with two separate sets of tooling, that all have to be fit into one budget. And then we have to ask... how articulated are these Pretenders gonna be?
Combiners, Head Masters, Titans, 80s music and storage medium alternate modes, all of this stuff proved viable at retail in the modern day but Pretenders is the one gimmick from G1 that's just too hard to make work.
Of the "fusion" style Pretenders Legacy has given us, I think Bomb Burst, Iguanus, and Bludgeon came out pretty nice. Skullgrin didn't work, but 3/4 isn't a bad batting average.
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I really liked the LOOK of Deluxe Thunderwing, though I do hope he gets something better later and I was surprised to see him mentioned in the interview. Though more likely...
"The destruction of the Pretenders will be the next part of our EEEEEEEEEvil plan..."
"Evil plan?"
"No, no, you have to draw out the 'E' or it doesn't work, try it again. EEEEEEEEEvil..."
"EE...vil?"
"...That's it, you're being transferred to Accounting..."
"The destruction of the Pretenders will be the next part of our EEEEEEEEEvil plan..."
"Evil plan?"
"No, no, you have to draw out the 'E' or it doesn't work, try it again. EEEEEEEEEvil..."
"EE...vil?"
"...That's it, you're being transferred to Accounting..."
I'm so amused so many people dump on Skullgrin when he's arguably being the most accurate of the Legacy Pretenders by turning into a big lump of incoherent nonsense for his vehicle mode.
I just think his head looks goofy!
It just needed a lower jaw.
The G1 toy shell had one, but it was molded onto the chest and left unpainted in gray, so it got lost in the details and overlooked by the update.
Except that's not what his alt mode looked like. Legacy is literally just a brick with guns on it. The original has a actuall design, a real cockpit. It's slenderup front and thickens toward the back. The only think it gets right are the dual cannons uptop, the rear treads, and the weapons plugging in.
Bomb-Burst is practically 1:1 in comparison.
And Iguanus is honestly an improvement, as he really is "lump of nonsense" when compared to the other two's G1 toys. He's basically a Lizard Junkion, but at least that looks more like a motorcycle then the original.
With Pretenders, personally, I don't care about the inner robots for the most part as they all look generic or uninspired aside from Metalhawk, its the actual shells that looked cool, I rather they sort of stay as they have done, taking the shell looks and having them transform, I'll grant that the resent Skullgrin wasn't exactly the best and pretty much likely to end up as generic bot mold for whenever they want something odd for the line or some one off pack