Traitor Watch - The 45 & 47 Thread

Dekafox

Fabulously Foxy Dragon
Citizen
Some of the international reactions to the tariffs:
Reactions & Backlash to US Tariffs Continue

Nations, firms, and markets are continuing to react to the United States’ new tariffs Friday.

The following announcements and moves have been made in the last 24 hours:

JP Morgan has raised its odds of a global recession to 60% by the end of the year, up from a previous estimate of 40%.

Most markets across the globe dropped dramatically Thursday and continued to fall Friday.

US stocks fell dramatically Thursday, marking one of the largest single-day declines in history for the S&P 500. Stocks also started the day Friday deep in the red.

Ratings firm S&P Global announced it will review all its macro economic forecasts and will publish revised data next week as a result of tariffs and severe market declines.

China announced additional tariffs of 34% on US goods, while accusing the US of “bullying” behavior. It also added 11 firms to its “unreliable entities” list, which allows the country to impose additional restrictions on them.

A statement by China’s Commerce Ministry said "China firmly opposes this and will take countermeasures to safeguard its own rights and interests. There are no winners in trade wars, and there is no way out for protectionism. China urges the U.S. to immediately lift unilateral tariffs and properly resolve differences with its trading partners through dialogue on an equal footing."

China placed additional export restrictions on rare earth elements as part of its response.

Japan’s Prime Minister Shigeru Ishiba said the new tariffs would create a “national crisis” for the country, as Japan’s stock market plunged.

"We are going to fight these tariffs with countermeasures, we are going to protect our workers, and we are going to build the strongest economy in the G7,” Canada’s Prime Minster Mark Carney declared.

European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said the tariffs would be a “major blow to the world economy” but did not announce countermeasures.

France’s President Emmanual Macron called on companies to halt investment in the US.

Italy’s Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni told state TV that she hoped to work for the removal of tariffs, and did not expect to respond in kind.

The UK’s Prime Minister Kier Starmer told business leaders in London that he hoped to work with the US to lessen or remove tariffs. The UK will respond with “cool and calm heads,” he said. "Nobody wins in a trade war," he added.

Taiwan’s government announced $2.67 billion in aid to companies affected by the new tariffs. US tariffs on Taiwan do not include semiconductors.

US Senator Chuck Grassley introduced a bill that would require Congressional approval of new tariffs.

Olu Sonola, the head of US economic research at Fitch Ratings, wrote in a note "this is a game changer, not only for the US economy but for the global economy. Many countries will likely end up in a recession.”

The World Trade Organization said that the tariffs would likely cause a drop of about 1% in global trade volumes this year. “I’m deeply concerned about this decline and the potential for escalation into a tariff war with a cycle of retaliatory measures that lead to further declines in trade,” said WTO Director-General Ngozi Iweala-Okonjo.
 

Pocket

jumbled pile of person
Citizen
Imagine sending this post back in time without context just to see what people guess it's in response to. They'd probably assume the government had been overthrown by communists somehow.
 

Dekafox

Fabulously Foxy Dragon
Citizen

Interesting bits of background in this. Namely, that Trump declared a national economic emergency because we have trade deficits, and that's the grounding for all these tariffs. Kick that out from under him(which looks like it'll be harder than it sounds) and all these tariffs he's tried to do this year go away.
 

Dekafox

Fabulously Foxy Dragon
Citizen
That's the harder than it sounds part... but it's not an impossibility, given we already had a few break ranks on the Canada tariffs. Just not an easy or likely one. There's also the court approach too mentioned in the article, which currently is being headed by a Libertarian of all things, actually living up to what they say instead of being a Republican in a different color coat.
 

Axaday

Well-known member
Citizen
The Congressmen who support Trump because he will sign their bills and make their job easy bail when he makes their job hard. The Congressmen who support Trump because their constituents want them to bail when their constituents don't want them to. The Congressmen who support Trump because they are afraid he will cause them to lose their next election bail when supporting him will cause them to lose their next election. Trump can DEFINITELY turn them against himself if he can't pull out of this nosedive by summer.
 

Corvus

Active member
Citizen
There are quite a lot of Republicans wringing their hands raw over this, particularly in the wake of Elon's money absolutely failing to provide the GOP with an important election victory in Wisconsin. Treasury secretary Scott Bessent currently looks absolutely shell-shocked by Trump's idiotic trade-war, so I agree with Ax that should this Trade War BS continue, Trump could face open revolt from his own party.
 

Pocket

jumbled pile of person
Citizen
I hope the Democrats do everything they can to try to stop this, but fail through no fault of their own. I want this country to have to live out the consequences of this madness as long as it takes for at least a majority of Trump's voters to realize they made a horrible mistake, and for a significant number to realize that it would be another mistake to ever trust a single R with their vote again, at any level.

And if that's asking too much, I want this country to collapse because that's what it deserves.
 

wonko the sane?

You may test that assumption at your convinience.
Citizen
And how does he pull up? He can't walk back this without looking like he made a mistake: someone else will have stop it and they'll be throwing themselves under the bus if they do. They'll become trump cult enemy number 1 for daring to defy great leader. Unless the whole lot of them find a spine and coordinate on not only walking back the tariffs, but also popping the 25th amendment: trump will just call for their (metaphorical) heads and have them primaried.

If they do nothing: we get at least two years of this, assuming the voting in the US is still legit and the hope that dems sweep the mids.
 

Rhinox

too old for this
Citizen
This could finally be the end of Trump. But I doubt it. It is far more likely to be the end of the US as we know it. Our position of leadership in the world. The use of the dollar as the default currency. Our reputation as a source of security.

If Trump continues this path, he destroys so much of our world as we know it. If he backs down, he destroys himself. We all know what path he will take. I sincerely hope that everyone who has propped him up, helped him, and enables him hurts as much if not more than everyone he is actively ******* over in his pursuit of power and revenge.
 

The Mighty Mollusk

Scream all you like, 'cause we're all mad here
Citizen
Unless the rich realize how much their fortunes are in danger and force their bought-and-paid-for politicians to step in, we're all boned. Trump does not have the capacity to admit fault; he won't willingly back down, no matter what happens. He'll have to be forced out, one way or another, or he's going to drag us all down with him.
 

Rhinox

too old for this
Citizen
Unless the rich realize how much their fortunes are in danger and force their bought-and-paid-for politicians to step in, we're all boned. Trump does not have the capacity to admit fault; he won't willingly back down, no matter what happens. He'll have to be forced out, one way or another, or he's going to drag us all down with him.
Exactly. He does not back down. Never admit, never retreat. Always deny, always lie, always deflect.
Until someone with a bigger stick holds him to account, he will not stop. And, honestly, the last 'biggest stick' was SCOTUS. They neutered themselves. What is left?
 

wonko the sane?

You may test that assumption at your convinience.
Citizen
This could finally be the end of Trump. But I doubt it. It is far more likely to be the end of the US as we know it. Our position of leadership in the world. The use of the dollar as the default currency. Our reputation as a source of security.

If Trump continues this path, he destroys so much of our world as we know it. If he backs down, he destroys himself. We all know what path he will take. I sincerely hope that everyone who has propped him up, helped him, and enables him hurts as much if not more than everyone he is actively ******* over in his pursuit of power and revenge.
Even if trump was dragged into the street tonight, killed mob style, and the body burned, along with the absolute and unequivocal promise that the economy would be returned to the state it was on nov 5th, 2024: the US's status in the world is still DOA.

Your country cannot be trusted to not do this again. How long until the fascist party gets elected into actual power again? How badly do they hug things up trying to keep it? This could only end with the fall of the american empire: you can either be the kindly old sod, handing out hard earned wisdom on which mistakes to avoid, or just another dead tyrant.
 

Axaday

Well-known member
Citizen
And how does he pull up?
I don't know if it is true or what will happen, but Trump said today that Vietnam was negotiating. If he gets any concession at all, he can announce that that was what he was trying to get. Lift tariff on Vietnam before it even starts (??). That will get others to the table. I realize Vietnam isn't what the stock market is worried about, but a pile of similar countries makes it plausible to a red hat that Trump stood up to the world and showed them the USA is boss. Honestly a lot of countries that size probably are going to cave. What is Madagascar going to do if they can't sell vanilla to the USA? They are going to have to do what he wants. So to some extent it is really going to be true that the tariffs worked as a negotiation tactic. It is thuggy, but it will be effective.

Bigger countries are bristling, but some of them might cave. He doesn't have to have that. There are lots of other weasely openings too. Any country that isn't playing can be said to have solved one of his imaginary problems. If it looks like the House of Representatives is going to stop the Canada tariffs, Trump just needs to say they finally got serious about Fentanyl. A bunch of NATO countries have increased their defense spending. He can lift EU tariffs because of that. Absolutely any country can turn out to have stopped "manipulating currency". If he gets some lucky and some good timing, he can pull up.

If he digs in, I think there is a very good possibility that he blows up his whole deal.
 

Ultra Magnus13

Active member
Citizen
I don't know if it is true or what will happen, but Trump said today that Vietnam was negotiating. If he gets any concession at all, he can announce that that was what he was trying to get. Lift tariff on Vietnam before it even starts (??). That will get others to the table. I realize Vietnam isn't what the stock market is worried about, but a pile of similar countries makes it plausible to a red hat that Trump stood up to the world and showed them the USA is boss. Honestly a lot of countries that size probably are going to cave. What is Madagascar going to do if they can't sell vanilla to the USA? They are going to have to do what he wants. So to some extent it is really going to be true that the tariffs worked as a negotiation tactic. It is thuggy, but it will be effective.

Bigger countries are bristling, but some of them might cave. He doesn't have to have that. There are lots of other weasely openings too. Any country that isn't playing can be said to have solved one of his imaginary problems. If it looks like the House of Representatives is going to stop the Canada tariffs, Trump just needs to say they finally got serious about Fentanyl. A bunch of NATO countries have increased their defense spending. He can lift EU tariffs because of that. Absolutely any country can turn out to have stopped "manipulating currency". If he gets some lucky and some good timing, he can pull up.

If he digs in, I think there is a very good possibility that he blows up his whole deal.

This is the most likely outcome imo. He will get "concessions" and "wins" as a variety of countries do things like take action on a nearly non existent fentynal trade. Trump will then crow about the "winning". It will be a mix of platetitudes and tangible wins.
 

Axaday

Well-known member
Citizen
But a problem whose magnitude I cannot estimate is that the redhats believe tariffs are how the country is going to become great again. They are going to be confused if he doesn't keep a lot of them.
 

KidTDragon

Now with hi-res avatar!
Citizen

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Trump's gonna cost Republicans the geek vote.
 


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