Anti-Semitism

[Ungnome]

My view, as a godless heathen, is that Jesus, historically, is pretty much the same as John Smith. A real person who convinced a bunch of people he was a messenger from God and founded a cult that grew into something more. In the case of Jesus, I'm pretty sure his closest disciples exaggerated his deeds after his death to attract new followers either because they truly believed his teachings should be spread far and wide, or in order to grow the cult to increase their own power. Though this is getting a little off topic for this thread.

 

[NovaSaber]

I'm pretty sure you mean Joseph Smith.

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

My view, as a godless heathen, is that Jesus, historically, is pretty much the same as John Smith. A real person who convinced a bunch of people he was a messenger from God and founded a cult that grew into something more. In the case of Jesus, I'm pretty sure his closest disciples exaggerated his deeds after his death to attract new followers either because they truly believed his teachings should be spread far and wide, or in order to grow the cult to increase their own power. Though this is getting a little off topic for this thread.

Historically, if I recall correctly, there's only some circumstantial evidence to support that a real person called Jesus was behind the Jesus in the Bible.

Also some/many New Testament books were compiled from documents or other spoken third person accounts much later than the events. In some cases, these were created a few hundred years after Jesus's death.

 

[Ungnome]

I'm pretty sure you mean Joseph Smith.

You are correct. Looks like I had a crossed wire in my memory somewhere. Too many friggin J. Smiths in American history.....

 

[CoffeeHorse]

It doesn't help that the most famous John Smith was also known for wildly exaggerating his deeds.

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

It doesn't help that the most famous John Smith was also known for wildly exaggerating his deeds.

Actually, in the UK, John Smith was famous for something else...

 

[diamondgirl]

It's true that Jesus did not fulfill all the Old Testament prophecies and that's why Jews do not accept him as the Messiah, but he fulfilled alot of them.

Jesus raised Lazarus from the head. What more proof do you want?

Jesus will fulfill the rest of the prophecies during his Second Coming. I bet you forgot about that.

That's why they call Jesus the comeback kid.

 

[CoffeeHorse]

I would be extra skeptical of any story that only appears in John. That includes the raising of Lazarus. People watched a days old corpse rise from the dead and it took that long for someone to mention it?

I've always wondered how John ended up canon.

 

[Tuxedo Prime]

I've always wondered how John ended up canon.

A fair number of people have similar questions regarding Ecclesiastes, the Song of Songs (for, ahem, reasons), and the Revelation to John (leaving aside its imagery, it's a completely different genre than all the correspondence that dominates the NT after Acts).

Fred Clark, who runs the Slacktivist blog on the increasingly ad-heavy Patheos supposed-to-have-been-multifaith forum, suggests that John's gospel, at least for progressive Christians, serves as a counterpoint to the story of Job. If you've ever heard the 1990s pop song "What If God Was One Of Us?" you might see where this is going.

Now I can't know if that was the thinking when the canon was compiled (NT, that is, if I remember my Asimov's Guide to the OT* the Tanakh was already settled by the Maccabeean period if not before).

(*= Yes, that Isaac Asimov.)

 

[Thylacine 2000]

It's true that Jesus did not fulfill all the Old Testament prophecies and that's why Jews do not accept him as the Messiah, but he fulfilled alot of them. Jesus will fulfill the rest of the prophecies during his Second Coming. I bet you forgot about that.

There isn't allowed to be a Second Coming. A supposed Moshiach has either rebuilt the Temple, led an in-gathering of Jewish exiles, gotten all Jews to fully follow Torah, brought the awareness of God to all the world's peoples, and established total world peace, or he hasn't. Said candidate also needs to be a male-line descendant of David and Solomon, which means he needs a biological father. You might as well say you're the President of the United States, you just haven't been elected yet, and after your death you will wake up in the Oval Office.

 

[LordGigaIce]

It's true that Jesus did not fulfill all the Old Testament prophecies and that's why Jews do not accept him as the Messiah, but he fulfilled alot of them.

Jesus raised Lazarus from the head. What more proof do you want?

Jesus will fulfill the rest of the prophecies during his Second Coming. I bet you forgot about that.

That's why they call Jesus the comeback kid.

If you believe Jesus is the Messiah then you believe that. No one's stopping you.

But you're in a thread about antisemitism badgering Jews about why they haven't accepted Jesus' divinity.

Do you not see the irony?

 

[Pale Rider]

If you weren't stubbornly refusing to accept Jesus, you wouldn't have to be badgered. Obviously.

 

[diamondgirl]

It seems like anti-Semitism nowadays is more organizational, that is, people burning down synagogues.

I've never witnessed anti-Semitism on a personal, individual, street-level, if you will.

Jews are lucky because they can go incognito. You would not know someone is Jewish unless they told you, and usually these days it never comes up.

Do Jews feel more fortunate than other minorities because they are basically considered and accepted as white?

 

[Thylacine 2000]

"As long as nobody knows you're Jewish, you won't be attacked for it, so antisemitism must be over. I have totally been paying attention the last 5 pages."

Updated FBI hate crimes statistics show 20% increase in antisemitic hate crimes

The report, which included nearly 500 additional reports of anti-Jewish hate crimes, validates concerns from lawmakers and Jewish groups that initial data had undercounted antisemitic hate crimes

jewishinsider.com

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/23/us/antisemitism-report-unprecedented-rise-dg/index.html

Antisemitic hate crimes in NYC rose 125% in November, NYPD data shows

There were 45 hate crimes motivated by antisemitism in November versus 20 in November 2021, according to data released by the NYPD Monday.

abc7ny.com

 

[LordGigaIce]

I've never witnessed anti-Semitism on a personal, individual, street-level, if you will.

I have. In IRL and even in this very community.

Jews are lucky because they can go incognito. You would not know someone is Jewish unless they told you, and usually these days it never comes up.

This is profoundly messed up.

Do Jews feel more fortunate than other minorities because they are basically considered and accepted as white?

Ashkenazi Jews, Jews descended from Jews who settled in Europe after the Diaspora, aren't the only Jews in the world. There are Black Jews, Asian Jews, etc... The Jews who stayed in the Middle East after the Diaspora look very much like Arabs.

And as for Ashkenazi Jews.... them having fair skin and being able to "pass" as white didn't save them during the Holocaust. Nor does it save them from antisemitic crimes in the present.

Think before you speak, child.

 

[Pale Rider]

I'm just waiting for the mask to drop entirely.

 

[diamondgirl]

The Persian Empire saved and freed the Israelites from the Babylonians, and allowed them to return to their homeland of Israel.

Aren't the Palestinians the descendants of the Persians, or are Persians themselves? I'm just trying to understand the Biblical history.

 

[Thylacine 2000]

Palestinians are Arabs, a different ethnicity from Persians, and with no relationship to the ancient pre-Islamic Persian Empire. The Bible was written long before the Arabization of the Middle East.

 

[LordGigaIce]

The Persian Empire saved and freed the Israelites from the Babylonians, and allowed them to return to their homeland of Israel.

Aren't the Palestinians the descendants of the Persians, or are Persians themselves? I'm just trying to understand the Biblical history.

What made you think that other than both their names start with "P"?

 

[Ungnome]

Yup. The descendants of the Persians are predominantly Iranian, which is NOT an Arab country, btw.

Had to add something based on an earlier comment....

I can't speak for the Jews, but as a closeted trans person I do NOT feel more fortunate being able to go incognito. Hiding a personal truth like that wears on ones mental health. It's a different pain, but a pain non-the-less.