Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

[Teufel]

Not really. I think it is rather sad that some Israelites were demanding that Palestinian flags be removed from protests, to be honest.

I couldn't find a separate video showing Palestinian and Israeli protestors clashing (I think it was a rather short segment at the end of a BBC news video), but here's one dealing with the proposed official banning of the flag in public:

-

For decades that flag has stood for terrorism against Jews and a mission to destroy the state of Israel. I think organizers not wanting it at protests ostensibly about saving the state of Israel is perfectly reasonable and probably a wise political decision to boot.

An actual ban I think would be a self-defeating and misguided act, but that's why I'm glad to live in a country with a written constitutional right like the First Amendment and am wary at the last several years' arguments to weaken it in the name of safety and other excuses.

The idea of a protest against Netanyahu not allowing Palestinian flags does sound like parody (it's like a protest against Putin not allowing Ukranian flags), except for the part where it's not hard to believe.

Being anti-Netanyahu doesn't make you pro-PA/Palestinian, but I'm sure Bibi would love for that to be the message.

In other news...

I hope Israel continues to degrade Iran's capabilities in the region.

Link

The strike hit near a security complex around which Syria's ally Iran has installed bases, two intelligence sources said.

It was not immediately clear whether the Israeli strike was aimed at a specific individual, but two Western intelligence sources said the target was a logistics centre in the building run by Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC).

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

For decades that flag has stood for terrorism against Jews and a mission to destroy the state of Israel. I think organizers not wanting it at protests ostensibly about saving the state of Israel is perfectly reasonable and probably a wise political decision to boot.

I haven't found any evidence for your statement that the flag represented any terrorists:

- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Palestine

I also disagree that it shouldn't be flown at the recent protests. The current far-right government is just as bad for the Palestinians as it is for the Israelis, IMO.

 

[Thylacine 2000]

Let's not conflate two different issues:

-Flying that flag ON STAGE DURING PROTEST SPEECHES is counterproductive. The whole point of these protests is to unite as much of Israeli society as possible to bring down this awful coalition; the Guardian link earlier even said there were protests in West Bank settlements.

-Flying that flag ANYWHERE, EVER causes no harm and it looks pathetic, weak, and fragile that Itamar Ben-Gvir claims to have "banned it". All of Israel's greatest recent gains took place with someone somewhere flying the Palestinian flag. It is not illegal to fly the Palestinian flag, so he is setting up a massive court crisis as well. It's almost like it was a bad idea to build a government with the sort of guy who parks his car illegally and then pulls a gun on the garage attendant who told him to move (yes, really).

 

[Teufel]

I haven't found any evidence for your statement that the flag represented any terrorists:

- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Palestine

I also disagree that it shouldn't be flown at the recent protests. The current far-right government is just as bad for the Palestinians as it is for the Israelis, IMO.

To be clear, that's not to say everyone who uses the flag is a terrorist or sympathizer, but the point is expecting the Israeli protestors to be cool with it is beyond unreasonable.

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

To be clear, that's not to say everyone who uses the flag is a terrorist or sympathizer, but the point is expecting the Israeli protestors to be cool with it is beyond unreasonable.

Thanks for your info. I still disagree that the use of the flag is wrong in any way. Although it seems to have been linked to groups with violent background, today it is used by regular people to reflect their own country.

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

10 Palestinians dead, over a hundred injured after Israeli military raid on Nablus triggers battle.

An Israeli military raid on the West Bank city of Nablus has triggered a battle that left at least ten Palestinians dead and over a hundred injured. Israel says the rare daytime raid was targeting a group of wanted militants who, once surrounded, opened fire rather than surrender. Among the dead were a 72 year old man and a boy of 14. This report contains distressing images.

This report contains distressing images.

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

Christian Aid claims it was subject to act of ‘lawfare’ by pro-Israel group.

A leading NGO has broken its silence on a bruising legal battle with a pro-Israeli advocacy group, describing it as an act of “lawfare” aimed at inflicting financial and reputational damage on organisations that do charitable work with Palestinians.

Christian Aid, the UK-based charity, was forced to spend about £700,000 defending itself against accusations that it had provided “material support” to terrorists, chief executive Patrick Watt has said.

The complaint, filed in 2017 by the New York-based Zionist Advocacy Center (TZAC), dragged on for more than five years before being thrown out by the US courts in September...

(Full story: - https://www.theguardian.com/global-...subject-to-act-of-lawfare-by-pro-israel-group )

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

At least six Palestinians killed in IDF raid on Jenin refugee camp.

At least six Palestinians have been killed and 10 wounded in an Israeli army raid on the occupied West Bank city of Jenin, according to Palestinian officials, the latest bloody incident in a new chapter of violence across Israel and the Palestinian territories.

A fierce gun battle erupted in the crowded refugee camp on Jenin’s western outskirts on Tuesday afternoon after the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) mounted an operation to find the Palestinian gunman suspected of killing two Israeli brothers as they drove through the West Bank town of Huwara last week.

That attack triggered a violent response from Israeli settlers living illegally in the area: about 400 people stormed Huwara and three surrounding villages later in the day, damaging dozens of homes and businesses, setting hundreds of cars alight and killing one man. The rampage – the scale of which made it the worst single episode of settler violence against Palestinians ever recorded – horrified people on both sides of the green line and drew international condemnation...

(Full story: - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ians-killed-in-idf-raid-on-jenin-refugee-camp )

 

[Teufel]

Terrorist attack at a Tel Aviv cafe, so far only death is the terrorist.

3 wounded, including 1 critically, in central Tel Aviv terror shooting

Police say gunman shot dead after opening fire at people outside cafe on Dizengoff Street; another victim in serious condition; Hamas claims terrorist as member

www.timesofisrael.com

Three people were shot and wounded in a terrorist shooting near a cafe in central Tel Aviv on Thursday night, police and medics said.

Police said the Palestinian attacker opened fire at people outside the cafe on the corner of Dizengoff Street and Ben Gurion Street, an area typically bustling on Thursday night. He then fled the scene while shooting at other people in the area, before being shot dead in a shootout with police officers a short time later.

One victim was listed in critical but stable condition after undergoing surgery and was still fighting for his life, said doctors at Ichilov Medical Center, where the injured were taken. The other two were listed in serious and moderate condition, the Magen David Adom ambulance service said.

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

 

[Thylacine 2000]

Protests against Netanyahu's judicial reform plan are continuing, and edging more towards all-out revolt.

Sheldon Adelson's widow Miriam - a funder of AIPAC and the Birthright Israel program - now says the change would be a mistake. She joins Alan Dershowitz (!) and former ADL head Abraham Foxman.

Pro-Israel stalwarts Miriam Adelson and Noa Tishby join chorus condemning judicial reforms as protests enter 10th week - Jewish Telegraphic Agency

The statements offer a clear sign that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu cannot expect prominent allies abroad to back his government's signature legislation.

www.jta.org

The protests have now thoroughly spread into Israel's security apparatus as well. Almost an entire squadron of pilots has refused to attend trainings.

Protesting air force pilots agree to hold talks on base, but won’t train

Members of fighter jet squadron -- most of whom said they would refuse to join exercise in protest of government -- will hold dialogue with commanders

www.timesofisrael.com

In a thoroughly disgusting analysis, it may be that a major drive for these attempted changes (in addition to keeping Netanyahu out of prison of course) is nothing less than revenge by settlers still clinging to bitterness over Israel's 2005 withdrawal from Gaza. "You forced us to do something, now we can force you to do something."

Israeli judicial reform is tit-for-tat over Gaza Disengagement

POLITICAL AFFAIRS: The Israeli judicial reform’s emotional roots were planted in the summer of 2005 and a feeling of betrayal.

www.jpost.com

 

[Teufel]

Shabtai said to order police commanders not to speak directly to Ben Gvir

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

Police Commissioner Kobi Shabtai has ordered police commanders not to speak directly to National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir, Channel 12 reports.

During a weekly meeting of commanders, Shabtai tells them that any communication from the far-right Otzma Yehudit leader should be referred to the commissioner’s office, the report says.

The order comes in the wake of a botched effort by Ben Gvir to have the Tel Aviv police commander removed from his post last week over his refusal to use force to clear protesters from roads.

Attorney General Gali Baharav-Miara froze his decision to remove Tel Aviv District Police Commander Amichai Eshed from his position, saying the move was not legal.

Shabtai later apologized for his role in the incident, saying that he’d “made a mistake” in approving the step.

Smotrich and Ben Gvir seem to be in a contest to see who can be the biggest douchebag. On an American podcast shortly before the election Netanyahu was asked about being in coalition with those two and his response was basically, "Hey, I'll be in charge, not them. I can rein them in." Even if they're reined in officially, even if he can make Smotrich say whoops, I mispoke when I called for wiping out a village, I meant a very targeted police action... the damage is done.

(although of Ben-Gvir's controversies so far, "Jew goes to Temple Mount" is one I can't be bothered by.)

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

Israeli minister condemned for claiming ‘no such thing’ as a Palestinian people.

Bezalel Smotrich’s comments come as far-right coalition pushes ahead with judiciary overhaul...

...
“There is no such thing as a Palestinian nation. There is no Palestinian history. There is no Palestinian language,” he said in France late on Sunday. He spoke at a lectern draped with what appeared to be a map of Israel that included the occupied West Bank and parts of Jordan.

The Palestinian prime minister, Mohammad Shtayyeh, said Smotrich’s remarks were “conclusive evidence of the extremist, racist Zionist ideology that governs the parties of the current Israeli government”...

(Full story: - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...hing-as-a-palestinian-people-bezalel-smotrich )

 

[Ironbite4]

God I hate this entire region.

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

Israel's Netanyahu meets Sunak at Downing Street amid protests.

Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has met Benjamin Netanyahu at Downing Street as the Israeli leader faces domestic turmoil over judicial reforms.

Mr Sunak greeted Mr Netanyahu outside No 10 before talks over security and the threat from Iran.

Mr Netanyahu will also meet Home Secretary Suella Braverman on his one-day visit.

Hundreds of protesters gathered at the gates of Downing Street to demonstrate against the Israeli PM's policies.

There was a cacophony, including shouts of "shame" and "traitor", as Mr Netanyahu made the short walk from his convoy to the steps of Number 10.

A planned photo opportunity for media at the start of the talks was cancelled, and there was no joint statement...

(Full article: - https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-65061887 )


In other news:

- https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...palestinians-prepare-for-ramadan-in-jerusalem

 

[Thylacine 2000]

The irresistible jive hit the immovable fan.

2 weeks ago: Former Israeli Prime Minster Ehud Olmert urged world leaders to boycott the current government:

Ex-PM Olmert urges world leaders friendly to Israel to boycott Netanyahu

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

2 weeks ago: Israeli President Isaac Herzog, whose picture you see when you look up "moderate" in the dictionary, said the country was on the verge of a shooting civil war:

Israeli President Isaac Herzog warns of a looming, bloody 'real civil war' amid battle over court reform - Jewish Telegraphic Agency

"The abyss is within reach," Herzog said.

www.jta.org

About 30 hours ago: Defense Minister Yoav Gallant - a Likud right-winger and career military - publicly says the judicial reform plan is a mistake. Netanyahu fires him.

About 20 hours ago: Street protests intensify beyond anything seen to date. Israel's largest unions begin a general strike, the first in decades and the first of this size ever. All embassies and consulates close, most businesses close, all McDonalds close (this is a big deal), Ben Gurion airport closes (I'd only ever heard of this happening once before, ever, after a Hamas lucky shot in 2014, and it was universally understood as a death-level shock), the hospitality and tourism sector mostly closes (NEVER heard of that happening, not even during wars, unthinkable), the healthcare system shut down to the lowest possible level without turning completely off.

About 10 hours ago: Netanyahu agrees to freeze and postpone the judicial reform plan until the summer.

Netanyahu agrees to pause judicial overhaul following widespread unrest

A general strike halted medical services to flights to meals served by McDonald’s restaurants.

www.nbcnews.com

The general strike is now over, the airport is working again. Several other cabinet ministers are now coming out and saying Gallant was right, this was all a mistake, and so far they haven't been fired. In exchange for not immediately resigning and collapsing the government, ultra-right Otzma Yehudit party is given sole authority over the Israeli "National Guard" - don't be fooled by the name, this is a weird SWAT-team thing with about 1,000 armed members, formed only about 2 years ago in response to race riots within Israel proper. It's not good that they have it, but it could also be a face-saving gesture - and anything done procedurally can be undone procedurally.


The whole situation can be hard to understand, but boils down to "Israel has no Constitution, there is no voter or legislative input on the courts at all, lawyers and judges nominate themselves, in practice there is no limit on court jurisdiction, it just so happens the courts side with protecting minority rights, women's rights, LGBT rights, Arabs, etc., but it could just as easily pull a 180, so it's a lot of 'doing the right thing the wrong way,' maybe there should be an actual official script for what the courts can and cannot do, but CERTAINLY that script should not be written by indicted criminals and terrorist sympathizers."

 

[Ironbite4]

They called his bluff and he blinked.

Ironbite-Oooooooooh.

 

[Pocket]

Man, imagine if one of our leaders did something so awful that the entire country shut down in protest. I mean, I'm not sure how someone that unpopular got elected in the first place, unless their elections are as big of a sham as Russia's...

 

[Rhinox]

He'll try again and probably in a more surreptitious way so people won't get as pissed. He won't stop till his power is secured for as long as he wants it.