Star Trek: Picard

[The Predaking]

Sulu was navigator on probably the most famous Federation ship in History. He was the first to report Praxis exploded which kickstarted the Khitomer Accords and peace with the Klingon Empire. He also helped stop Chang and the other conspirators.

I feel like that’s plenty to warrant a ship.

Agreed. Sulu was instrumental in stopping the Conspiracy and bringing peace to the Alpha Quadrant for the Golden Era to exist. He also served long enough to have sponsored Chekotay while still a captain at the age of 107. I am sure that he has done enough to earn his ship.

 

[Tuxedo Prime]

I thought there was, but apparently it’s just a Memory Beta ship with non canon appearance. Captained by Elias Vaughn though so there’s that.

For whatever it's worth, I think that Kelvar Garth would have been a better fit for an Akira-class cruiser, I would have expected an Exeter- or an Inquiry-class to bear Kirk's name.

 

[MrBlud]

Spoiler

Them not mentioning “Time’s Arrow” AT ALL during Picard and Guinan’s second meeting in the past made me irrationally angry. To the point I shut off the episode at that point.

 

[Cradok]

Like, you can explain that easily, it's Star Trek time travel with Q involved, things are different, whatever. It's dumb and very annoying, but I can live with it. (Computer, erase personal log.) But the really awful thing is like with Beverly, totally ignored. Why make a series about the things that haunt Picard in his waning years without actually bringing up the things that the people who care about Picard as a character care about. I don't need a dark history with abusive father.

Also, it's called Ten Forward because it's deck 10, forward.

 

[Glitch]

Spoiler

Them not mentioning “Time’s Arrow” AT ALL during Picard and Guinan’s second meeting in the past made me irrationally angry. To the point I shut off the episode at that point.

Spoiler

I managed to get through it thinking at some point Guinan would gasp clasp her mouth and say "Sorry Picard it's been a long terrible century!"
I wonder where the sanctuary districts are, they're a coming folks!
Also they better have paid the actor who played the punk on the bus a hefty sum for that cameo.

 

[Tuxedo Prime]

Like, you can explain that easily, it's Star Trek time travel with Q involved, things are different, whatever. It's dumb and very annoying, but I can live with it. (Computer, erase personal log.) But the really awful thing is like with Beverly, totally ignored. Why make a series about the things that haunt Picard in his waning years without actually bringing up the things that the people who care about Picard as a character care about. I don't need a dark history with abusive father.

Also, it's called Ten Forward because it's deck 10, forward.

So much this. In the first season, okay, you want to tell a new story and not just have Another TNG Cast Reunion Party, sure. And it makes thematic sense to have Picard seek out Moritz Benayoun, a former junior medtech on the Stargazer turned private MD, for recertification for space travel (they don't come out and say this in dialogue, but working the characters age backwards would have made him 21 in 2355 when the Stargazer was lost). This tells us just how desperate Picard is, that he won't seek out someone who knows his conditions better.

But while Gates McFadden was something of a weak link in the TNG ensemble, Beverly Crusher (she doesn't seem to have remarried, unlike the Pocket Books "First Splinter Timeline" or the anti-time future) is a keenly missed presence -- and even if she never appears, we should at least know why. (Maybe she died -- along with Commander Nog -- attempting a smaller-scale and unauthorized Hobus Evacuation, and her death is one of the things that haunted Jean-Luc in his self-imposed exile.... There, if only Paramount gave out No-Prizes.)

It would also be nice to have something other than memes about anaphasic energy beings and misuse of medical supplies to remember her by.

 

[Kalidor]

Well that nonsense with Guinan really took the wind out of the sails for this show. Different actress... I'm not fully against it but I'm not fully on board with it when we already know what Guinan looked like in the 1800s - not to mention the fact that in this very show they used de-aging CGI. They could have absolutely pulled a "Luke" with her by using a deep fake style "young version". But even if you accept "yes, different actors same characters" the fact the entire exchange appeared that the writers had zero clue about the history of these characters is kind of inexcusable.

Also, just a minor nitpick I don't know why they keep doing the Thanos style finger snap with Q. That's not really how he ever used his powers in his previous appearances.

 

[MrBlud]

Like, you can explain that easily, it's Star Trek time travel with Q involved, things are different, whatever. It's dumb and very annoying, but I can live with it. (Computer, erase personal log.) But the really awful thing is like with Beverly, totally ignored. Why make a series about the things that haunt Picard in his waning years without actually bringing up the things that the people who care about Picard as a character care about. I don't need a dark history with abusive father.

Also, it's called Ten Forward because it's deck 10, forward.

You feasibly can sure. But transparent aluminum still exists even though it wouldn’t without the Federation and Scotty ALSO being a predestination paradox BEFORE the temporal divergence

The real question is why not include it? Its presence would’ve geeked out fans and Its omission angers them. I’m not asking for them to spend five minutes intricately explaining the plot of a thirty year old episode but even something as simple as “you look familiar?” would’ve satisfied me. Guinan *clearly* remembered since she sought out Picard for a position on the Enterprise in the future.

 

[Dake]

Spoiler

Them not mentioning “Time’s Arrow” AT ALL during Picard and Guinan’s second meeting in the past made me irrationally angry. To the point I shut off the episode at that point.

The actor actually asked about that very question and was provided an answer (which is pretty much what Cradok said.

Well that nonsense with Guinan really took the wind out of the sails for this show. Different actress... I'm not fully against it but I'm not fully on board with it when we already know what Guinan looked like in the 1800s - not to mention the fact that in this very show they used de-aging CGI. They could have absolutely pulled a "Luke" with her by using a deep fake style "young version". But even if you accept "yes, different actors same characters" the fact the entire exchange appeared that the writers had zero clue about the history of these characters is kind of inexcusable.

I initially thought that too, but I don't think this show has quite the budget that Disney threw at BoBF/Mando. De-aging Q for 6 seconds (or Data which benefited from lots of makeup) is one thing, but this would not have been cheap.

 

[Kalidor]

Well, that's a passable answer. Not sure how much I'm buying it since Guinan herself should have still had that echo of the experience of knowing him.

 

[MrBlud]

Yeah, I’m calling bullshit since she’s been canonically known (even right here!) to get echoes from “proper” time. DEFINITELY enough for a simple “have we met before?”

Very unsatisfying on Matalas part but kudos to Ito Aghayere for knowing her Trek.

 

[ChessPieceFace]

Anyone else notice the license plate Easter egg?

Spoiler

S02 E01 - which I believe was when Guinan first appeared on TNG, yes?

Also, the bus scene was fun. I loved that they not only got the dude back, but got him to record a sequel to his original song. "I Still Hate You!"

 

[Copper Bezel]

Also, it's called Ten Forward because it's deck 10, forward.

I think I'm going to refer to Guinan's bar as the Stavro Mueller Beta from now on. Picard continues to make me appreciate Lower Decks doing the research.

Spoiler

I'm not embedded in Trek lore enough to spot every discrepancy (I didn't even realize that the song on the bus was the same, never mind that it was a sequel) and couldn't have told you the plot of "Time's Arrow" at gunpoint, but I don't know why a story makes the explicit choice to get involved in existing lore and then doesn't make use of it. (I don't have any issue with casting a different actor instead of deepfaking Whoopi Goldberg. That seems like a matter of budget and practicality, and CGI wouldn't have improved the script.)

I liked the ICE stuff. That felt like a very Trek thing to do, the sort of thing that all the best time travel stories in Trek tap into. Rios's scenes were good, Seven and Raffi's scenes were funny. ("I have no idea how this got here.") So I enjoyed the episode. Jurati's stuff was less good but had Jurati in it, Picard's stuff was confused and uninteresting, and Q's teaser at the end was a collection of clichés I would have accepted if it was his first scene in the series (reminding us what he's about and then subverting expectations by showing his weakness) but was dull, portentous, and and entirely expected now. The closer to the main plot a scene was, the less well it played.

 

[Axaday]

The actor actually asked about that very question and was provided an answer

If someone doesn't want to click, the answer the writer gave is that in the current reality Picard was a conqueror and didn't travel back to the 19th century to figure out the Data mystery. Star Trek has not followed consistent rules about time travel, so ... The answer is "okay". I feel like it was a missed opportunity in the sense that writers sometimes pretend their hands are tied when they are actually the ones in control. So don't write something that is going to need explaining.

Likewise, they can come right out and say "The problem is that Whoopie Goldberg has gotten old and we don't have the budget to make her look young and the whole thing would be really jarring. Why did she look the same in 1893 as she did in 2365, but she looks so old in 2024? So we had to recast." There are two better ways out of that pickle. 1) Don't write a story with 2024 Guinan if you don't have the resources to do it correctly. 2) Just go with it. The fans know you are using Guinan because she is a legacy character that it would be fun to see again. They won't be that harsh about Whoopie Goldberg being older. Besides, you just said in episode 1 that Elaurians have the ability to look older and younger. You literally explained why you could do what people wanted and then didn't do it. Weird, man.

 

[Cradok]

"You don't get credit for stuff you don't put in the movie because, now try to follow this because it's a pretty big leap, you didn't put it in the movie." - SFDebris.

 

[TheSupernova]

Spoiler: Everyone's wrapped up in the whole Guinan thing, and here I am more worried about the pedantic stuff like:

• How does Raffi know how to dismantle a 21st century handgun?
• How does Seven know how to drive?
• How did every space agency on Earth not see the burning fireball that was La Sirena entering the atmosphere?
• What good is the cloak going to do when there's still a huge crash trail leading up to where you're parked?
• How can you have power for the cloak, computers ans transporters but can't keep part of the ship warm?

 

[Copper Bezel]

Likewise, they can come right out and say "The problem is that Whoopie Goldberg has gotten old and we don't have the budget to make her look young and the whole thing would be really jarring. Why did she look the same in 1893 as she did in 2365, but she looks so old in 2024? So we had to recast."

I'm not sure that anyone did in fact say otherwise. The show doesn't make apologies with quantum temporal woo or Gallifreyan regenerations or anything, and the only behind-the-scenes material anyone's mentioned, the Variety article, refers to her being cast as the "young Guinan" doesn't feel the need to explain any further either. I don't think they felt the need to apologize for it at all, which is why they didn't feel the need to go with one of your other options.

Spoiler: Everyone's wrapped up in the whole Guinan thing, and here I am more worried about the pedantic stuff like:

• How does Seven know how to drive?

I feel like I want to pull this one out and say that this one was explained, possibly not satisfactorily, by her initial rough experiments with the controls, the reminder that she's controlled a lot of kinds of vehicles before, and the fact that she had to have street signs and signal lights explained to her. I'm singling it out because that does at least make it different from the others in that it's the only one to which an explanation is offered. I have to admit I didn't notice the handgun thing, but the La Sirena items all just felt like the plot texted someone offscreen.

 

[Dekafox]

I feel like I want to pull this one out and say that this one was explained, possibly not satisfactorily, by her initial rough experiments with the controls, the reminder that she's controlled a lot of kinds of vehicles before, and the fact that she had to have street signs and signal lights explained to her. I'm singling it out because that does at least make it different from the others in that it's the only one to which an explanation is offered. I have to admit I didn't notice the handgun thing, but the La Sirena items all just felt like the plot texted someone offscreen.

They totally could have namedropped Tom Paris somewhere in that sequence too, given he was a big fan of 20th century stuff(and it would have added to the humor if this is how Tom taught her to drive). And if Raffi is a bit of a history buff along the same lines as Tom, it would explain why she would know both about streetsigns/signals and handguns. Like if there's a 24th century version of the SCA that focuses on Pre-WW3, you KNOW they'd have stuff like firearms education and such. Doesn't seem like a huge stretch, though they could have also dropped a reference to her being a history buff at some point to set that up if that was the intention.

 

[TheSupernova]

I feel like I want to pull this one out and say that this one was explained, possibly not satisfactorily, by her initial rough experiments with the controls, the reminder that she's controlled a lot of kinds of vehicles before, and the fact that she had to have street signs and signal lights explained to her. I'm singling it out because that does at least make it different from the others in that it's the only one to which an explanation is offered. I have to admit I didn't notice the handgun thing, but the La Sirena items all just felt like the plot texted someone offscreen.

I read someone's review that said it could have been as easy as a line saying that Tom Paris taught her to drive on the holodeck, and honestly, that's all it would have taken for me. Her getting better at it as she went definitely isn't a problem, though. Adapting quickly is something she's good at.

(The handgun bit was from when Raffi took down the mugger in the previous episode. She split it apart and tossed away the various pieces.)

 

[Copper Bezel]

Yeah, bringing in Paris for that would have been a nice touch.

I should have clarified about the handgun thing - yeah, I remember the scene now, I just didn't think about the discrepancy at the time. Like, they didn't need to do that, they wanted to call attention to the fact that Raffi is the kind of person who would know how to do that today, they didn't take the extra step of considering that she's unlikely to have encountered someone with a blunderbuss or ballista in the 25th C.