Traitor Watch - The 45 & 47 Thread

KidTDragon

Now with hi-res avatar!
Citizen
"The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.

To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.

To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."

- Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
 

Axaday

Well-known member
Citizen
It is really a fascinating pair. I have not worked out in my head how Trump can tolerate sharing the spotlight with a man half his age, who people other than himself say is a genius, who is 70 times as wealthy as him. He outclasses Trump in every metric. Trump started up a social media platform that he hoped was going to be the premiere one and then Elon just bought one on a lark for 10 times as much money as Trump has and it's had a hard time, but it still has 100 times as many members as Trump's does. I would have predicted that would burn Trump up. They are actual direct competitors here and Musk is beating him.

It is also fascinating that the most famous thing Trump hated about Barack Obama was that he supposedly wasn't a natural born citizen. (Like Trump's current wife). But he doesn't mind giving broad operational authority to a man who wasn't a natural born citizen.

-=-=-

It feels kinda strange, maybe totally anachronistic, that Cabinet posts have to be confirmed by the Senate. The Constitution wrote about a much more limited executive, I suppose, that would be managing things day to day, but pretty under the thumb of Congress. Now it is weird. They could decide not to put a guy who can hardly speak, whose brain has been eaten by another animal, and who espouses anti-medical rhetoric in charge of the Department of Health and Human Services, but I'm not sure what the point is. They aren't getting a guy that isn't going to do what Trump wants, in general. And I'm actually a little surprised he even submitted his nominations. Maybe just for ceremony's sake. First term by the end he had quite a few acting Secretaries and publicly commented that he preferred that because he didn't have to get them approved. But even after you get your whole cabinet approved, you can hire anyone to be your advisor. Bannon. Musk. Those people will wind up telling any department what to do. So why does the Senate need to grill the Transportation nominee? What about them as a person is really going to be the important thing?
 

Pale Rider

...and Hell followed with him.
Citizen
It is really a fascinating pair. I have not worked out in my head how Trump can tolerate sharing the spotlight with a man half his age, who people other than himself say is a genius, who is 70 times as wealthy as him. He outclasses Trump in every metric.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Putin helped broker that match. Tweedledumb and Tweedledumber are now speedrunning the collapse of the American experiment faster than Putin could’ve dreamed back in 2016.
 

The Mighty Mollusk

Scream all you like, 'cause we're all mad here
Citizen
It is also fascinating that the most famous thing Trump hated about Barack Obama was that he supposedly wasn't a natural born citizen. (Like Trump's current wife). But he doesn't mind giving broad operational authority to a man who wasn't a natural born citizen.
The difference is that Musk and Ivanka are white.
 

wonko the sane?

You may test that assumption at your convinience.
Citizen
It feels kinda strange, maybe totally anachronistic, that Cabinet posts have to be confirmed by the Senate. The Constitution wrote about a much more limited executive, I suppose, that would be managing things day to day, but pretty under the thumb of Congress. Now it is weird. They could decide not to put a guy who can hardly speak, whose brain has been eaten by another animal, and who espouses anti-medical rhetoric in charge of the Department of Health and Human Services, but I'm not sure what the point is. They aren't getting a guy that isn't going to do what Trump wants, in general. And I'm actually a little surprised he even submitted his nominations. Maybe just for ceremony's sake. First term by the end he had quite a few acting Secretaries and publicly commented that he preferred that because he didn't have to get them approved. But even after you get your whole cabinet approved, you can hire anyone to be your advisor. Bannon. Musk. Those people will wind up telling any department what to do. So why does the Senate need to grill the Transportation nominee? What about them as a person is really going to be the important thing?
Because acting heads of departments are supposed to have limited power and responsibility, and the senate grilling candidates is to, in part, make sure they're actually capable of doing the damn job and are loyal to the country and constitution and not the ideology, agenda or individual.

But no good faith operation from republicans, so the system fails.
 

Axaday

Well-known member
Citizen
Because acting heads of departments are supposed to have limited power and responsibility, and the senate grilling candidates is to, in part, make sure they're actually capable of doing the damn job and are loyal to the country and constitution and not the ideology, agenda or individual.

But no good faith operation from republicans, so the system fails.
In the specific case of RFK, I feel like Trump didn't really give much rhetoric and just said, "Hey this guy is helping me, so he's my kind of guy and whatever he things ought to happen is fine with me", so he really is one the Senate should've identified as a weed. But in general these people are just there to implement Trump's executive orders. I don't think hanging up nominations serves any real purpose beyond the opportunity to politically embarrass the other party. Knock one down and there'll be another one soon and they're going to do just what the last one was going to do but without an embarrassing skeleton in their closet. They aren't the ones you gotta worry about. The ones you gotta worry about are in the Oval Office whispering in the President's ear and the Senate doesn't get a say on who those people are.
 

Axaday

Well-known member
Citizen
In Musk's case it's not just that he wants to be in the room where it happened, he wants to be the one doing it. And he is. Trump isn't exactly spending every day playing golf anymore, but he's still delegated an insane amount of work to this guy who doesn't even have an official Cabinet position.
https://trumpgolftrack.com/ says he has golfed 16 out of 62 days.
 

CoffeeHorse

Exhausted, but still standing.
Staff member
Council of Elders
Citizen
In the specific case of RFK, I feel like Trump didn't really give much rhetoric and just said, "Hey this guy is helping me, so he's my kind of guy and whatever he things ought to happen is fine with me", so he really is one the Senate should've identified as a weed.

I think you missed part of last summer's drama. Sometimes it's hard to tell what Trump believes in beyond just agreeing with the last person he spoke with on a topic, but the record strongly suggests he does actually agree with a lot of RFK's ideas. Many such cases.
 

Axaday

Well-known member
Citizen
I think you missed part of last summer's drama. Sometimes it's hard to tell what Trump believes in beyond just agreeing with the last person he spoke with on a topic, but the record strongly suggests he does actually agree with a lot of RFK's ideas. Many such cases.
Withdrawn
 

Dekafox

Fabulously Foxy Dragon
Citizen
In news from the weekend:

paywall-free: https://archive.is/6xjNJ

Trump's been issuing XOs targeting law firms opposing him and his agenda(s). Not sure if it's in the article, but found this writeup as one example:

A week and a half ago, Donald Trump targeted Paul Weiss with an executive order stripping the firm of security clearances and business with the government, as well as potentially barring their lawyers from Federal courthouses.

In addition, Trump implied he would penalize Paul Weiss’ clients.

It’s a blatantly illegal order, the kind widely understood as an authoritarian move .

It followed on Trump targeting two other big law firms,
Covington and Burling and Perkins Coie, whose partners had engaged in partisan activity against the Republicans.

Threatening lawyers who represent clients opposed to the government is tin pot dictator stuff, meant to chill any opposition.

So you would think that a politically wired firm would recognize that they have an ethical obligation, or even just a branding one, to oppose it.

Indeed, a high profile case like this is in some ways a lawyer’s dream,
it’s so obviously morally repugnant and a sure loser, or winner potentially for Paul Weiss.

Moreover, you would think that the rest of the big law world would rally behind these firms, seeing that any one of them could be next.

And indeed, Perkins Coie fought the order in court, quickly winning a temporary stay, with the judge saying this order “sends chills down my spine.”

But in the case of Paul Weiss, that’s not what happened.

As the Wall Street Journal reported, “Competitors immediately began circling after the March 14 order, calling coveted Paul Weiss clients to note that
the firm had been marked as an enemy of the president, according to people familiar with the conversations.”

Within a few days, Brad Karp, the firm’s Chairman, sought to cut a deal with the Trump administration.

Paul Weiss hired Bill Burck, the lawyer for indicted New York City mayor Eric Adams.

Working through Burck, as well as New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft, a firm client, Karp reached out to Trump, and they met for three hours.

In the middle of that meeting with Karp, Trump picked up the phone and calling Paul Weiss’s most important rival, Robert Giuffra of Sullivan & Cromwell, and asked what he should do.

The whole episode leaked, which revealed to the entire corporate and legal world that Paul Weiss has no juice in Trump-world, and Sullivan & Cromwell does.

Finally, they cut a deal.

In return for Trump ending his executive order, the firm agreed to end its diversity programs,
do $40 million of free work for Trump-aligned priorities,
and ensure that it would hire and represent Trump-aligned clients.

Karp also disavowed former Paul Weiss lawyer Mark Pomerantz,
who had worked in the Manhattan District Attorney’s office in a case against Trump.

This capitulation shocked and horrified the legal world,
inviting Trump to expand his attack on the legal community.

The next day, Trump issued another executive order calling for the government to sanction lawyers who bring “frivolous, unreasonable, and vexatious” lawsuits against the government.

That’s a signal to the entire legal world that representing clients in disagreements with the government carries a personal and professional risk.
 

Ungnome

Grand Empress of the Empire of One Square Foot.
Citizen
STOP BOWING TO OBVIOUS ILLEGAL EOs..... The more you capitulate, the more power he will try to take, you idiots....
 

Rhinox

too old for this
Citizen
No one said standing up to the tyrant bully would be without cost. Now we will so who is willing to pay a price for the good of the nation.
 

wonko the sane?

You may test that assumption at your convinience.
Citizen
If you think the psychopaths running million and billion dollar businesses or industries are going to voluntarily stand up and forego money to preserve the country: you best be ready to grow your own food when you're wrong.
 

Rhinox

too old for this
Citizen
If you think the psychopaths running million and billion dollar businesses or industries are going to voluntarily stand up and forego money to preserve the country: you best be ready to grow your own food when you're wrong.
No, but I do think some of the lawyers will. When the rule of law goes out the window two things happen. 1: they become ******* useless and 2: in tyrannical takeovers, one of the first things they do is kill all the lawyers.
 

KidTDragon

Now with hi-res avatar!
Citizen

I assume he was expecting it to be akin to this:

1742840036574.png
 

Ironbite4

Well-known member
Citizen
Well I guess it's just another Monday and seeing how it's Monday, I guess old Pete's still hungover from the weekend. So he can be forgiven for adding the Atlantic's editor to the group chat discussing it's war plans to bomb Yeman.


Ironbite-.....SORRY WHAT!?
 

The Mighty Mollusk

Scream all you like, 'cause we're all mad here
Citizen
At this point I wonder if they're just pushing to see how far they can go before anyone actually stops them. This whole regime has been a massive effort in provocation and so far nobody's actually done anything meaningful about it.
 

Axaday

Well-known member
Citizen
They are never going to acknowledge this happened or explain it. Perhaps someone with the same name was supposed to get it?
 


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