Transformers: Age of the Primes toyline discussion 10/27 Update: First look at Megatronus the Fallen

[LordGigaIce]

I'm starting to feel like we need more of that.

Eh I have no love for his general outlook.

"Combiners will never work"
Combiner Wars happens

"Headmasters will never work"
Titans Return happens

"We can't do stuff like boombox Blaster or tape deck Soundwave at retail"
Netflix Soundwave and Kingdom Blaster say high

I understand that not everything has to be G1 and some variance in outlook is always good, but Archer steering the ship made a lot of arbitrary decisions about not doing things just because they were G1. And I don't find that to be particularly inspiring or fresh in and of itself.
The whole Aligned catastrophe happened under his watch too, where he tried to set a new "non-G1" baseline going forward and it just kinda fizzled.

Dude was talented at what he did but his aversion to doing something because it was something G1 did, his rather narrow view of what could or couldn't work, and his flip flopping on 3P stuff really soured my general outlook on the guy.

 

[Sabrblade]

Colored prototype pics of AOTP Prima

(Now, let's see how long before these same pics get re-posted either here or in the Legacy thread)

 

[Donocropolis]

Huh. I'd like to get some better views of the alt mode, but at first glance it doesn't look like it would be out of place next to origins Bumblebee, Jazz, and Wheeljack.

 

[CrockAlley]

ignoring the longstanding tradition

I guess I just don't see a problem there. I don't want to be chained in by "tradition," especially when it comes to very inconsequential aspects like a silly little suffix. I want experimentation and crazy new ideas. That's how we even got the concept of Mini-Cons in the first place, and I think that's great.

You have to remember the era it was said in. Back then, we WANTED g1 Worship, becuase we'd just came off of the Beast Era, and had RiD as a return to vehicles. Nowadays, we're tired of it all being G1 or looking too much like G1.

I certainly did want G1 back then too. I still do now. But as I'm going through my boxes of TFs, I'm a little sad that I went so hard during the UT on "This looks G1, I'm gonna buy it!" and I lost out on a lot of fun original ideas, molds, colors, etc. just because they weren't G1 enough.

Eh I have no love for his general outlook.

"Combiners will never work"
Combiner Wars happens

"Headmasters will never work"
Titans Return happens

"We can't do stuff like boombox Blaster or tape deck Soundwave at retail"
Netflix Soundwave and Kingdom Blaster say high

I understand that not everything has to be G1 and some variance in outlook is always good, but Archer steering the ship made a lot of arbitrary decisions about not doing things just because they were G1. And I don't find that to be particularly inspiring or fresh in and of itself.
The whole Aligned catastrophe happened under his watch too, where he tried to set a new "non-G1" baseline going forward and it just kinda fizzled.

Dude was talented at what he did but his aversion to doing something because it was something G1 did, his rather narrow view of what could or couldn't work, and his flip flopping on 3P stuff really soured my general outlook on the guy.

This ignores the 15 or so years between him saying that and us getting those toys. It was a different market. Aaron did preside over a successful era for the brand, with the UT, Animated, the early Movie toylines, and yes, actually bringing real G1 back to us in the form of Classics.

 

[Sabrblade]

I guess I just don't see a problem there. I don't want to be chained in by "tradition," especially when it comes to very inconsequential aspects like a silly little suffix.

But they weren't inconsequential aspects. Those suffixes were part of an organizational pattern that made it easier for kids to remember and keep track of all their various Transformers toy groups. It was one of the many carefully coordinated nuances that made Transformers stand out among all the competition, just like the on-package bios and tech specs, the unique and obvious faction symbols, the red and purple color coordination for the packaging, and more.

 

[LordGigaIce]

This ignores the 15 or so years between him saying that and us getting those toys. It was a different market. Aaron did preside over a successful era for the brand, with the UT, Animated, the early Movie toylines, and yes, actually bringing real G1 back to us in the form of Classics.

I agree with all of that, and even said (in the post you quoted) that I thought he was talented at what he did.

But I don't have to like an athlete even if I recognize their skill, and the same sort of thing applies here. I much prefer the outpost post-Archer compared to his tenure, and I was a kid who was all in on the UT.

guess I just don't see a problem there. I don't want to be chained in by "tradition"...

I don't want to be chained by tradition. I also don't to be chained from it either.
EVERYTHING can be a source for inspiration. The past, present, and new ideas.
But to ignore how the brand's worked, including its own internal logic as Sabrblade outlined, is strange.

 

[Destron D-69]

honestly, the yellow was kinda growing on me. I'll buy the white one... but who knows maybe they'll do a repaint

at least now I can head cannon that Nova Prime picked his colors to emulate Prima

 

[Sabrblade]

Honestly, the yellow was kinda growing on me.

That was just an uncolored test shot, like the yellow Red Alert.

 

[Shadewing]

Eh I have no love for his general outlook.

"Combiners will never work"
Combiner Wars happens

"Headmasters will never work"
Titans Return happens

"We can't do stuff like boombox Blaster or tape deck Soundwave at retail"
Netflix Soundwave and Kingdom Blaster say high

I understand that not everything has to be G1 and some variance in outlook is always good, but Archer steering the ship made a lot of arbitrary decisions about not doing things just because they were G1. And I don't find that to be particularly inspiring or fresh in and of itself.
The whole Aligned catastrophe happened under his watch too, where he tried to set a new "non-G1" baseline going forward and it just kinda fizzled.

Dude was talented at what he did but his aversion to doing something because it was something G1 did, his rather narrow view of what could or couldn't work, and his flip flopping on 3P stuff really soured my general outlook on the guy.

Yet we still got Combiners and Headmasters under his watch. What he specifically didn't like about Headmasters was the possibility of losing the head. Which is valid. Which is why the ones he did make had some kinda head that still existed. And when Hasbro did do them as a full line, one of the things they did? Sell cheap extra heads. Also Tape Deck Soundwave was still an extremely hard to get exclusive until recently, the more easily available retail one wasn't a tape deck. And you ignore their Titan Retuns selves, which they made leaders so they could have base modes so that they were just more then boxes. Combiners his issue was partly due to the distrubution system they had to do, and how long kids would have to wait to complete one. And when we finally did get the G1 combiners? Its in a line made up of JUST them and were advertised as "You can make this guy with all there guys, or you can just throw anyone togeather and still have a big guy." on their boxes.

 

[CrockAlley]

But to ignore how the brand's worked, including its own internal logic as Sabrblade outlined, is strange.

I wouldn’t say any integral part of the brand was “ignored.” It was still transforming robots. Still Cybertron, Optimus and Megatron and so much more. Beast Wars “ignored” more than anything Aaron Archer did. I just don’t see any problem with any of that.

Regarding suffixes and organizational patterns and all that, Armada was hugely successful, and therefore I find it hard to argue that Archer did anything wrong. I myself don’t particularly like Armada, but I can’t argue with the results.

 

[LordGigaIce]

Regarding suffixes and organizational patterns and all that, Armada was hugely successful, and therefore I find it hard to argue that Archer did anything wrong. I myself don’t particularly like Armada, but I can’t argue with the results.

Bay's movies made billions of dollars at the box office but plenty of people don't like those.

Thing is I do like the UT and Archer was a huge part of that. Can't deny the man's talent, but let's not pretend that success is a 100% effective shield from criticism.

I just don't care for how he viewed elements of the brand, some of his creative choices, or his role in the Aligned clusterf. Him getting in bed with Play With This Too aka Rik Alvarez's Sad Spite Parade was just unfortunate.

Yet we still got Combiners and Headmasters under his watch.

Archer left Hasbro in 2013. Combiner Wars ran from 2015-2016 and TR ran from 2016-2017.

 

[Dekafox]

Archer left Hasbro in 2013. Combiner Wars ran from 2015-2016 and TR ran from 2016-2017.

Energon did have combiners. and they were even "Scramble City"-like. For Headmasters all I can think of offhand though is Overload and Energon Omega.

 

[Sabrblade]

Archer Era Headmasters:

• Armada Sideways mold
• Armada Overload mold
• Energon Omega Supreme mold

Archer Era Combiners

• Armada Perceptor molds
• Armada Sideways' Mini-Con combiner molds
• Energon Perceptor molds
• Energon Superion Maximus molds
• Energon Constructicon Maximus molds
• Energon Bruticus Maximus molds
• Animated Safeguard molds
• ROTF Supreme class Devastator
• The Power Core Combiner molds
• Generations Fall of Cybertron Bruticus molds
• Prime Beast Hunters Abominus molds

Technically the RID 2001 combiner molds Rail Racer, Landfill, and Ruination were all released by Hasbro under Archer's tenure, but Rail Racer and Landfill were Takara-original molds and Ruination was just a G1 mold rereleased in new colors, and weren't original ideas created by Hasbro during that time. Same goes for the ROTF Legends class Devastator, which Takara made on their own before Hasbro sold it as a giftset.

I also left out "Optimus Prime + other" power-up forms, same with Megatron/Galvatron power ups.

But, also note that each of those combiners was unconventional in some way or another.

 

[Platypus Prime]

Have I ever told you about the time I tried to repaint a Combiner Wars Silverbolt as Action Master Shockwave with a Pretender Shell and make it the size of a Micromaster and Transformers was RUINED FOREVER...?

And on that note, I wonder if Megatronus will be Matrix compatible, my own Dark Prime at the moment is a Woolly Mammoth, some company for him would be nice, especially if that company was on fire. It gets cold in the ice age...

 

[Shadewing]

Archer Era Headmasters:

• Armada Sideways mold
• Armada Overload mold
• Energon Omega Supreme mold

Archer Era Combiners

• Armada Perceptor molds
• Armada Sideways' Mini-Con combiner molds
• Energon Perceptor molds
• Energon Superion Maximus molds
• Energon Constructicon Maximus molds
• Energon Bruticus Maximus molds
• Animated Safeguard molds
• ROTF Supreme class Devastator
• The Power Core Combiner molds
• Generations Fall of Cybertron Bruticus molds
• Prime Beast Hunters Abominus molds

Technically the RID 2001 combiner molds Rail Racer, Landfill, and Ruination were all released by Hasbro under Archer's tenure, but Rail Racer and Landfill were Takara-original molds and Ruination was just a G1 mold rereleased in new colors, and weren't original ideas created by Hasbro during that time. Same goes for the ROTF Legends class Devastator, which Takara made on their own before Hasbro sold it as a giftset.

I also left out "Optimus Prime + other" power-up forms, same with Megatron/Galvatron power ups.

But, also note that each of those combiners was unconventional in some way or another.

And most those combiners were sold as sets, which got around the distrubtion issues. While the energon ones doubled up the limbs so that one could just buy the same guys twice and still have a complete combiner without having to wait 3-6 months.

 

[Cybersnark]

Colored prototype pics of AOTP Prima

(Now, let's see how long before these same pics get re-posted either here or in the Legacy thread)

He's clearly not the brains of the Thirteen, doesn't have much of a head on his shoulders..

 

[Sabrblade]

He's clearly not the brains of the Thirteen, doesn't have much of a head on his shoulders..

He just needs to get ahead in life.

 

[unluckiness]

Cybertronian aesthetic aside, something about the vehicle mode seems unfinished. Every section is a different width and nothing flows into the next area well.

 

[Undead Scottsman]

Hmmm...

I thought I might be on to something but I think I'm off.

 

[Sabrblade]

Cybertronian aesthetic aside, something about the vehicle mode seems unfinished. Every section is a different width and nothing flows into the next area well.

Now that you mention it, I wonder if that was intentional. Like, Prima is the first Transformer, the first Cybertronian created by Primus, preceding all other Transformers yet to come. So, he's quite primitive in nature. Perhaps the aesthetic Hasbro was going for when designing his vehicle mode was a primitive design, one that's meant to look like an early unfinished prototype.