Transformers: Age of the Primes toyline discussion 10/27 Update: First look at Megatronus the Fallen

[LordGigaIce]

This might upset some people. I'm sorry if that happens. I don't want to take anyone to task over their fandom or who or what they like. I've just been thinking about this and some anecdotal evidence came my way.

This fandom is kind of weird when it comes to Hot Rod/Rodimus.
The early online discourse was shaped by those who saw the '86 movie as kids, and who carried their disappointment/sadness/anger over Optimus' death with them. Early online discourse was all about how Rodimus sucked, how he killed Optimus, wasn't as good as Optimus, etc...

Eventually a younger crop of fans, not necessarily influenced by the gut reaction of seeing a beloved character killed before they were even ten, came up and became more active in the fandom. These fans pushed back against the older group, with the notions that Hot Rod/Rodimus being "bad" or in any way responsible for Optimus' death being thrown at those deemed "Geewuners," people who were so emotionally invested in G1-specifically '84-'85 G1- that they couldn't move on.

This group eventually supplanted the first group and that status quo has remained mostly unchallenged, with the negative feelings towards Hot Rod/Rodimus being used comedy. An in-joke at the expense of aging Gen Xers unable to come to grips with their cartoon robo daddy dying.
You almost have to defend your criticism of Hot Rod if you have any, to insist it's not coming from a place of "I can't get over a forty year old movie," and frankly? A lot of people get REALLY defensive about Hot Rod/Rodimus, even if they weren't part of that group that had to fight back against the Gewunners in the early days of the online fandom. It's just learnt behaviour now, Rodimus is Good and you should push back if anyone says otherwise.

I say all of this because I had that rare thing not too long ago, a discussion about Transformers with non-fans.
I'm one of the younger teachers at my place of employment, and so a lot of my work peers are older than me. And I was discussing the 1986 movie with a few who were into Transformers as kids, saw the movie, but who haven't stuck with the franchise. General audience types.

Their takeaway was that Hot Rod/Rodimus was lame. Not because he was responsible for Optimus dying or because he replaced him. They just didn't like him because he seemed like he was conceived by a corporate exec trying to connect with the kids.

Hot Rod isn't a boring truck, he's a sports car! With a flame deco! He's not a robo dad like Optimus, he's young! Hip! He uses slang! He's got attitude! And some of you can already see where this is going.

To people who saw the '86 changeover at the time but who aren't influenced by years of online flame wars, Rodimus is just Transformers Poochie.

I don't mean to insult anyone who hates or likes Rodimus. I just find it curious that it's not just "he killed Optimus and so he sucks" or "he's great you just can't let go of an old movie and your robo dad."
Outside of our bubble... Rodimus just... sort of comes across as cynical focus group-directed character design.

 

[Princess Viola]

To people who saw the '86 changeover at the time but who aren't influenced by years of online flame wars, Rodimus is just Transformers Poochie.

 

[Sabrblade]

And then Optimus went and stole that from him too!

 

[Cybersnark]

I mean, I can see some complaints that Rodimus is basically Bumblebee (or maybe a Bumblebee/Jazz fusion), and that he came out of nowhere rather than using the kid-appeal character who was already right there.

 

[wonko the sane?]

Yeah, but it was the 80's, and they had a board of directors yelling "MORE" at the marketing team.

 

[Sabrblade]

I mean, I can see some complaints that Rodimus is basically Bumblebee (or maybe a Bumblebee/Jazz fusion), and that he came out of nowhere rather than using the kid-appeal character who was already right there.

The irony nowadays being that the current portrayal of Bumblebee is basically like how Hot Rod originally was, making Hot Rod kinda redundant in this day and age.

Corporate suit: "Why use Hot Rod as the happy-go-lucky youngster when we already have the moneymaker that is Bumblebee?"

 

[DefaultOption]

Outside of our bubble... Rodimus just... sort of comes across as cynical focus group-directed character design.

Hot Rod literally ruined my tenth birthday party, and that was the take my friends and I had as we were walking out of the movie.

I mean, we didn't know what a focus group was, but we knew the whole point was "forget your old toys, those guys are dead! Ask your moms and dads to buy all these new guys you've never heard of before!"

 

[Sabrblade]

Ask your moms and dads to buy all these new guys you've never heard of before!"

To be fair, you were supposed to do that too back when the series first started in 1984 as something brand new with characters then-unheard of.

 

[DefaultOption]

Fair point. It was really the 'killing off old characters' part that was new and surprising.

 

[LordGigaIce]

To be fair, you were supposed to do that too back when the series first started in 1984 as something brand new with characters then-unheard of.

I remember asking my dad for Optimus Prime for my birthday after seeing G2 for the first time and him being utterly confused about what an "Optimus Prime" was.

He knows now though. Oh... he knows.

 

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

Correcting something I said before: I had said that it was Dreamwave who first made it so that Optimus Prime was the one chosen by the Matrix to be its destined bearer. In actuality, it was Robots in Disguise 2001 that did it first.

In the original Car Robots version, it was Vector Sigma who selected Fire Convoy to be the bearer of an Energon Matrix. But when this was adapted into the English version, Vector Sigma's role of giving Optimus his Matrix was kept, but the Energon Matrix was changed into "The Matrix", and was itself the one who made the choice. Vector Sigma was simply acting on behalf of the Matrix's will, and that willpower had chosen Optimus.

That's where the trend began.

Maaaaaan, I would not have even considered counting that.

This might upset some people. I'm sorry if that happens. I don't want to take anyone to task over their fandom or who or what they like. I've just been thinking about this and some anecdotal evidence came my way.

This fandom is kind of weird when it comes to Hot Rod/Rodimus.
The early online discourse was shaped by those who saw the '86 movie as kids, and who carried their disappointment/sadness/anger over Optimus' death with them. Early online discourse was all about how Rodimus sucked, how he killed Optimus, wasn't as good as Optimus, etc...

Eventually a younger crop of fans, not necessarily influenced by the gut reaction of seeing a beloved character killed before they were even ten, came up and became more active in the fandom. These fans pushed back against the older group, with the notions that Hot Rod/Rodimus being "bad" or in any way responsible for Optimus' death being thrown at those deemed "Geewuners," people who were so emotionally invested in G1-specifically '84-'85 G1- that they couldn't move on.

This group eventually supplanted the first group and that status quo has remained mostly unchallenged, with the negative feelings towards Hot Rod/Rodimus being used comedy. An in-joke at the expense of aging Gen Xers unable to come to grips with their cartoon robo daddy dying.
You almost have to defend your criticism of Hot Rod if you have any, to insist it's not coming from a place of "I can't get over a forty year old movie," and frankly? A lot of people get REALLY defensive about Hot Rod/Rodimus, even if they weren't part of that group that had to fight back against the Gewunners in the early days of the online fandom. It's just learnt behaviour now, Rodimus is Good and you should push back if anyone says otherwise.

I say all of this because I had that rare thing not too long ago, a discussion about Transformers with non-fans.
I'm one of the younger teachers at my place of employment, and so a lot of my work peers are older than me. And I was discussing the 1986 movie with a few who were into Transformers as kids, saw the movie, but who haven't stuck with the franchise. General audience types.

Their takeaway was that Hot Rod/Rodimus was lame. Not because he was responsible for Optimus dying or because he replaced him. They just didn't like him because he seemed like he was conceived by a corporate exec trying to connect with the kids.

Hot Rod isn't a boring truck, he's a sports car! With a flame deco! He's not a robo dad like Optimus, he's young! Hip! He uses slang! He's got attitude! And some of you can already see where this is going.

To people who saw the '86 changeover at the time but who aren't influenced by years of online flame wars, Rodimus is just Transformers Poochie.

I don't mean to insult anyone who hates or likes Rodimus. I just find it curious that it's not just "he killed Optimus and so he sucks" or "he's great you just can't let go of an old movie and your robo dad."
Outside of our bubble... Rodimus just... sort of comes across as cynical focus group-directed character design.

Yeah, I don't know how to really take this.

I was there at the time. Through 1984 and 1985, I liked Transformers.

1986? That's when I began to love Transformers.

And the '86 movie/show cast was a big part of that, including Rodimus Prime.

Now granted, my parents wouldn't let me see the movie in theaters, so I only knew as much as Season 3 told me about it, aside from what a friend also could remember to fill in the gaps. I don't think TFTM hit VHS until after Prime had already come back in the cartoon, so yeah, not going to affect me the same way.

By that same notion, though, I didn't start with Hot Rod, either. Outside of toy commercials (and the toy a friend of mine had), I only ever got to see him the time or two he lost the Matrix before TRoOP.

I don't remember exactly why I liked Rodimus so much, but some reasons I can recall are that I dug the futuristic look, I liked the big spoiler on his back, I liked the flames, and just the orange chest in general (orange being a favorite color of mine*), and I liked that he had not one, not two, but three "Starscream guns" on each arm. That meant with his rifle and the turret in his trailer, he could fire nine blasts at once! Super cool!

...mind, I was a kid, and the practicality of that kind of "ability" never once crossed my mind, only that he never did it on the show.

Oh, and he was also sarcastic. I loved that.

So, I dunno what to tell you. Rodimus Prime just really hit the mark with me when I was a kid, boardroom or no.

...and no, I was not part of any focus group. I saw the toy, pointed at it in front of my parents, and said "that one."

* Incidentally, yes, I did have to have Wheelie as soon as I saw him on the show. I think I got him before Rodimus, who would be a Christmas gift later that year.

 

[Haze Arquebus]

That's just Headmasters!

 

[Shadewing]

Yeah, I don't know how to really take this.

I was there at the time. Through 1984 and 1985, I liked Transformers.

1986? That's when I began to love Transformers.

And the '86 movie/show cast was a big part of that, including Rodimus Prime.

Now granted, my parents wouldn't let me see the movie in theaters, so I only knew as much as Season 3 told me about it, aside from what a friend also could remember to fill in the gaps. I don't think TFTM hit VHS until after Prime had already come back in the cartoon, so yeah, not going to affect me the same way.

By that same notion, though, I didn't start with Hot Rod, either. Outside of toy commercials (and the toy a friend of mine had), I only ever got to see him the time or two he lost the Matrix before TRoOP.

This is more or less my childhood as well. Becuase of my age, I wasn't allowed Transformers til after the movie came out. So they stuff I had as a kid was some hold overs from season 2 and the Season 3 guys and beyond. So I ended up gravating to the stuff that had the characters I had toys of, and those are the ones I tend to have more fondness for nowdays. Some exceptions like Wheeljack and Starscream; But I'm always more interested when we see guys like Legacy Quake rather then Legacy Gears. Becuase the 84-85 guys are almost guaranteed to get new toys, anything post movie is usually a crapshoot. Anything post Season 3 is even worse odds.

But yeah, that's why Rodimus also means somethign to me. I didn't have Optimus till the Power Master version, and then later the G2 re-release. So I'm always up for seeing him get any kind of love as well.

 

[LBD "Nytetrayn"]

But yeah, that's why Rodimus also means somethign to me. I didn't have Optimus till the Power Master version

Ha, same here. I'd play with my cousin's occasionally, until I got that.

 

[Dekafox]

I'm in a similar boat - Blurr was my second Transformer ever. I didn't have an Optimus or Rodimus though, and I would mistransform Soundwave into a "truck cab" when I needed one. (And I never did get a Optimus-type until LioConvoy from the Hasbro store around 2000)

 

[LordGigaIce]

Oh, and he was also sarcastic. I loved that.

I love it when Sandstorm is mourning his home planet and Rodimus is just like "get over it, it sucked, Cybertron's where it's at."

So, I dunno what to tell you. Rodimus Prime just really hit the mark with me when I was a kid, boardroom or no.

There's nothing wrong with that. Sometimes characters just hit us for some reason, and they become "our guy" for reasons we can't pin down. They just struck a cord with me.
I've been a fan of Sentinel Prime before he even had character traits that weren't "and then he died." Just...because reasons. I donno.

As I said in that post, I wasn't trying to insult anyone who disliked or liked Rodimus. I just found it interesting how the conversation changed when removed from
the bubble of Transformers fandom.
For so long Hot Rod/Rodimus was either the target of ire or a character to defend by people pushing back on that ire.
One of my first instances in this online fandom way back in the lead up to RiD '01 was someone remarking that anyone who doesn't like Rodimus is just a lame loser who can't accept their tv robo dad died.

While I think that is true for a lot of the Rodimus hate among segments of the fandom, I don't think it's the only reason people might not care for him. And talking to some people who fondly remembered Transformers from the 80s but didn't stick in the fandom (and thus weren't influenced by internet flame wars on the subject) was pretty interesting in that regard.

Becuase the 84-85 guys are almost guaranteed to get new toys, anything post movie is usually a crapshoot. Anything post Season 3 is even worse odds.

Honestly? I don't think that's true anymore. Post-1986 G1 has gotten a lot of love in Generations over the last ten years, from CW onward. Almost every new Decepticon from Rebirth has been available at mass retail since then. And a good chunk of the Autobots too. You mention Quake, we've had two versions of him at mass retail in seven years. His teammates Spinnister and Needlenose have also had mass retail releases in that time.
Japanese G1 has also gotten some love. We've had three Metalhawks in seven years (four of you count Vector Prime's Prime Master figure) and two the last year alone. Victory's leaders got HasLab releases, Dinoking is a Pulse exclusive, and Galaxy Shuttle was available at mass retail and will be again. Meanwhile Deathsuraus' predecessor as Decepticon leader in Masterforce got a Titans Return toy less than ten years ago.
We got comic accurate Jhiaxus of all things at mass retail, along with a four pack of troop builders that included his nameless minions from the G2 comics. That set also gave us a homage to Kiss Players of all things.
And the line this thread is about will give us Star Convoy in some form. If you don't like it you can pick up the TT version of Star Convoy that, again, is less than ten years old.

I don't think "they only focus on '84-'85 guys, sometimes season three, and never after that" was a wrong statement. It was true at some point.
But I also think Hasbro's gotten a lot better at addressing that, and I think post-'86 G1 fans have had a lot of options readily available for them at retail over the post-T30 run of Generations.

We all thought the deep cuts would stop when FunPub lost the licence. Instead Hasbro just decided to do it themselves.

 

[Sabrblade]

The Rodimus hate extended all the way as late as 2009, as seen in how he's portrayed in this video from back then:

 

[LordGigaIce]

The Rodimus hate extended all the way as late as 2009, as seen in how he's portrayed in this video from back then:

It still exists in certain corners of the internet. There are TF fan groups on Facebook that, as David Willis' twitter says, are time capsules of 1995 Transformers online discourse where you can find pics of Hot Rod with WANTED FOR THE MURDER OF OPTIMUS PRIME being shared regularly. The people who hated Rodimus back then are (mostly) still around and still hate him today.

But there was certainly aggressive pushback back the Rodimus hatetrain when I joined the online fandom in the early 2000s, and I'd say the prevailing mood was mostly "Rodimus is good and you just can't get over 1986 if you say otherwise" by the time the Bay movies were in full swing. The same people who complained about Hot Rod also said Michael Bay killed their childhood, and despite what we all think now, the Bay movies were incredibly popular when they first released. And that further marginalized that "can't let go of the first two years of G1" crowd.

And the thing is I'm not even saying that it's wrong to accuse people who say "RODIMUS KILLED OPTIMUS" as being kind of sad and unable to let a near forty year old movie go.

All I'm saying is that when the topic comes up outside of the Transformers fandom most dislike of Rodimus boils down to him being Poochie more than anything else. And the people who think that don't even really consider it worthy of much more nuance because they're not fans. Just people who remember Transformers from their childhood and maybe pick up an Optimus Prime Funko pop for the nostalgia.

 

[Shadewing]

I love it when Sandstorm is mourning his home planet and Rodimus is just like "get over it, it sucked, Cybertron's where it's at."


There's nothing wrong with that. Sometimes characters just hit us for some reason, and they become "our guy" for reasons we can't pin down. They just struck a cord with me.
I've been a fan of Sentinel Prime before he even had character traits that weren't "and then he died." Just...because reasons. I donno.

As I said in that post, I wasn't trying to insult anyone who disliked or liked Rodimus. I just found it interesting how the conversation changed when removed from
the bubble of Transformers fandom.
For so long Hot Rod/Rodimus was either the target of ire or a character to defend by people pushing back on that ire.
One of my first instances in this online fandom way back in the lead up to RiD '01 was someone remarking that anyone who doesn't like Rodimus is just a lame loser who can't accept their tv robo dad died.

While I think that is true for a lot of the Rodimus hate among segments of the fandom, I don't think it's the only reason people might not care for him. And talking to some people who fondly remembered Transformers from the 80s but didn't stick in the fandom (and thus weren't influenced by internet flame wars on the subject) was pretty interesting in that regard.


Honestly? I don't think that's true anymore. Post-1986 G1 has gotten a lot of love in Generations over the last ten years, from CW onward. Almost every new Decepticon from Rebirth has been available at mass retail since then. And a good chunk of the Autobots too. You mention Quake, we've had two versions of him at mass retail in seven years. His teammates Spinnister and Needlenose have also had mass retail releases in that time.
Japanese G1 has also gotten some love. We've had three Metalhawks in seven years (four of you count Vector Prime's Prime Master figure) and two the last year alone. Victory's leaders got HasLab releases, Dinoking is a Pulse exclusive, and Galaxy Shuttle was available at mass retail and will be again. Meanwhile Deathsuraus' predecessor as Decepticon leader in Masterforce got a Titans Return toy less than ten years ago.
We got comic accurate Jhiaxus of all things at mass retail, along with a four pack of troop builders that included his nameless minions from the G2 comics. That set also gave us a homage to Kiss Players of all things.
And the line this thread is about will give us Star Convoy in some form. If you don't like it you can pick up the TT version of Star Convoy that, again, is less than ten years old.

I don't think "they only focus on '84-'85 guys, sometimes season three, and never after that" was a wrong statement. It was true at some point.
But I also think Hasbro's gotten a lot better at addressing that, and I think post-'86 G1 fans have had a lot of options readily available for them at retail over the post-T30 run of Generations.

We all thought the deep cuts would stop when FunPub lost the licence. Instead Hasbro just decided to do it themselves.

If we only look at retail releases: it took 35 year for Needlenose to get an actual new toy. I'm still waiting on the Autobot Targetmasters (Yes, we have Crosshairs, but he's just a quick Ironhide retool and I'd really like him to have an update to his original toy, even if its after the other two, speaking on Sureshot seems to have vanished into the ether.), Headmaster Jrs (We got a Headmaster-less Minvera, but not the others, less you count the kinda/sorta them Titan master heads), and Powermasters (Getaway's gotten two toys, both repaints, but even the seemingly easy Slapdash hasn't gotten anything) to get updates. Despite there Decepticon counterparts being already complete or nearly complete. So yes, its getting better; but its still a crap shoot for anything post Season 3.

 

[LordGigaIce]

So yes, its getting better; but its still a crap shoot for anything post Season 3.

I'm looking at the last ten years, not the last thirty five. I agree that for most of that time it was rough going, but my point is that it's gotten better recently.

Hasbro will never take the spotlight off of the '84-'85 guys just like Marvel will always have Spider-Man on the shelves. You promote the money makers.

And yet Hasbro has, from what I've seen, been trying to find a balance between that and giving more obscure corners of the franchise love.

The effort is appreciated, on my end at least. I'm a fan of some obscure dudes. Sentinel Prime, Star Sabre, Deathsaurus, Xaaron, Needlenose.
I have all of these guys on my shelf now, and they all came about in the last decade. That's pretty cool, and it's worth noting.