It gets soooOOOooo much better! Like, I was honestly poised to scoff at it after the first four or five eps but it gets jaw droppingly amazing!
Star Trek General Discussion
- Thread starter SHIELD Agent 47
- Start date
Really, by the end of season 1, it's amazing.
Prodigy just called out Cochrane's warp test and the Bell Riots as examples of temporal predestination loops. I wouldn't have thought either would be popular knowledge, but I also felt like neither WERE temporal predestination loops. I thought both were scramble to make the best of the damage we caused situations.
I mean... for at least the cochrane test; it depends on how closely you look at the cause and effect circumstances. The borg cause the incursion which required the enterprise to step in. The enterprise was only THERE to step in because the test was successful and it led to the federation. Seems like an outside sourced predestination paradox, but we generally don't have ridiculous concrete details as to the "on the ground" history around cochrane and the phoenix test, so we don't really know if the damage, from the attack, from the borg would have also been mirrored from contemporary sources, or how likely a contemporary event was to happen.
But we also know the borg were introduced to the federation by the Q cause he's a jerk like that. If Q hadn't decided to be uppity that one day, or had decided to be a prick in some OTHER way...
Long story short: I hate time travel, and it gives me a headache. Man was not meant to ponder all possible outcomes simultaneously. At least not without some kind of intoxicant.
But we also know the borg were introduced to the federation by the Q cause he's a jerk like that. If Q hadn't decided to be uppity that one day, or had decided to be a prick in some OTHER way...
Long story short: I hate time travel, and it gives me a headache. Man was not meant to ponder all possible outcomes simultaneously. At least not without some kind of intoxicant.
Well we know the Cochrane test also happens in the Mirrorverse.
Watching the Temporal Mechanics 101 video made an impression on me that I didn't have before, though it can be inferred from the scattershot treatment of time travel in Star Trek. Time travel is not even especially mysterious by the late 24th century. It is as easy as building a rocket is now. Not just anybody can get the materials together, but there are lots of ways to do it and the mechanics are understood. It is just dangerous and illegal and apparently the population is generally "evolved" enough to follow good sense and avoid it.
Given the ease at which they were able to travel to the 1960s in 'Assignment: Earth' on a pre-retrofit Constitution class and to 1980s on a non-federation starship that Scotty didn't think much of in Voyage Home, I'd say the basic mechanics were understood in the second half of the 23rd century.
Apologies: that's not what I meant by mirrored right there. I meant "would there have been an attack even if the borg weren't there". The population was blaming it on an old attack satelite, and lily sloane thought picard was with the eastern coalition. Would what was seen from the ground have happened even if the borg decided to just do something else that day.
And i was pointing out that we know of a second timeline where this seems to be a cannon event in some way. ThougbI admit we don't know much there, but it did seem to go off without the attack that we know of.
Of course, the more nit-picking Trekkers also also knew that the Borg were messing with the UFP-Romulan Neutral Zone half a season before Q formally introduced us.
Basically, we had to wait until Season 2 of Enterprise for the causality loop to be closed in the 22nd century (when frozen Borg from the incursion into 2063 were defrosted, and managed to get a slower subspace signal to the other side of the galaxy before being destroyed by Jonathan Archer and his crew).
But yes, that event was used by some temporal theorists out-of-universe as evidence that First Contact really did change everything (and they mean everything) that we think we know about Star Trek.
I mean: it was my assumption that there wasn't supposed to be eastern coalition attack, and it was a peaceful run up to the phoenix launch. I also remember reading a novel where the split between the federation and the empire was tracked back to the naming of a lake on the moon.
I'm unsure how much of the "enterprise" series is considered cannon (I never did figure out how to interpret that last episode.) but the intro on the mirror universe episode had some earlier than the mass colonization of the moon shots of the empire in action.
Again: I hate time travel.
I'm unsure how much of the "enterprise" series is considered cannon (I never did figure out how to interpret that last episode.) but the intro on the mirror universe episode had some earlier than the mass colonization of the moon shots of the empire in action.
Again: I hate time travel.
I wonder if Tim Russ was unavailable to play Janeway's first officer in second season. I can see that the guy is an Andorian. But he sounds quite a lot like Tuvok and in everything I have seen so far, except one scene where he belly laughs, he has acted exactly like Tuvok would. If you aren't looking at the screen, you might think it IS Tuvok.
Well, I've always highly ranked:
1) Spock's genius
2) TOS not really being too concerned about proper world building
But it makes more sense in this context. In ancillary stuff, we know that a temporal detection grid had been established by the time of TOS to keep out the riffraff and temporal investigations showed up every time someone time traveled. So you can add accountability into the mix.
I love star Trek the next generation so much specifically season 3 but overall most of it. My dad likes original series; I always smile when picard solves a problem.